Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Killing power - where do you see the difference?

Yup and Yup.

Where I delineate cartridges is whether the game in question can run you over or bite back.

I personally like big calibers for bigger, thick skinned animals, starting with big hogs and elk. I liked the 35 Whelen AI/250x, 300WM with Barnes 180 on Plains Game, the 338WM/200x, 340wby/210xbt, 375 H&H/270 FS....all took animals from any angle, sometimes over 3 feet of penetration. Only a few animals in US are tough enough to really tell a difference, I think, between a small round and a bigger round. But hey, I too have had elk "just stand there" when shot with a 300 Sierra BT/375 H&H, 2nd shot was high shoulder and knocked her down. Hit bone to break them down. Head/neck shots are hard to make unless very close. I know nothing about big, humped back bear except I "think" the old M79 grenade Launcher would be comforting.!!

Placement makes all the difference. I've killed blacktail with a head shot with a 22LR and of course they are DRT. I've also heart shot them with a 375H&H and a 257Robts and had them run over 100 yards. Placement trumps bullet caliber/weight/construction and velocity/headstamp.

Have seen 3+ feet of penetration from much smaller bullets many times, including 100-grain .25 TTSXs and 150-grain .270 Nosler Partitions.

One good example occurred on a mature Shiras bull moose, as large-bodied as any bull elk I've seen on the ground. The 150 .270 Partition was started at around 2850 fps, and the bull was angling away at 125 yards. The bullet entered the rear of the ribcage on the left side and was found in the right shoulder. The bull took a step and a half and folded up, apparently dead when it hit the ground--and moose are known for often not reacting much to a shot.

Have also seen the 150 .270 Partition work very well on African plains game of elk size.

I have a pair of 243's, all armed with 100g NPt's, that have accounted for 15 elk, mostly in the hands of youngsters.. 50 yds to 375 yds, most of the elk quartering away, some heavily quartering away, a couple quartering while facing us. But, if I ever go back to Alaska on a similar DYI hunt where we saw brownies most days, I will probably be carrying my 30-06 AI with 200g NPt's. Of course it may be more of a mental thing for my own peace of mind.......

Most big game hunters in the US are whitetail hunters and that tends to be their yardstick, while I tend to be more elk centered and that's my point of reference. Any elk bullet is fine for smaller game too. In fact, a week after I came back from Alaska one year I killed a pronghorn with that 06 AI and the 200g NPT. Even with deer I want a bullet that will make that difficult quartering shot and penetrate into, and even through, the front half.......

For me, and this is just a casual observation over 50+ years of hunting, but I see a noticeable performance difference from one round to the other with frontal area. The greater the frontal area, the more difference I see in terminal performance, all else being equal.

Big and slow versus smaller and faster seems to work better for me lately as well.

Placement, of course, trumps everything.

FWIW at woods distances rn bullets seem to hit deer pretty hard. NPs do the same thing.

To sum it up, I don't see much difference in killing power of bottle neck cartridges (where most of my experience is) on ungulates, instead I see a difference in killing power based on the performance of the bullet.

Hunters are still rooted in the century+ old idea of bigger bore black powder firearms and "killing power".

These days it's about the bullet--but of course that will never stop us from discussing and cussing cartridges also......

my 2 cents > we need all the different size ,kinds , brands of bullets and rifles ,plus everything else so we can argue what`s much better to use and we all have are favorites. but to be real honest just a simple old 30-06 , partition bullets or another good brand bullet , bolt rifle of most brands , a decent scope ,would be what most of us is really all we would need ? but it sure is fun playing with all the different options available > that`s why we are rifle loonies i guess . a question from an old dear friend who is 80 ,during this fall`s 2021 deer season >he asked me is my old 270 Winchester good enough yet compared to a new 6.5 Creedmoor or am i i just way behind in what to use. i said very difference to us deer hunters when we shoot a deer.

It’s all about placement. A well placed arrow will kill a deer in short order. An arrow has no knock down power, it punches through at 250 fps, bleeds them out, so any cartridge 223 and up will do the trick at reasonable ranges. My 8 year old grandson killed this doe with a 223 at 75 yards. A 50 grain TTSX

Depends. I've seen expanding .223 bullets do less damage than a broadhead.

Me too, wouldn’t deer hunt with one myself, but it’s good for young people. I load 62 grain Bear Claws for my 223’s. They do well on pigs, leave heap big blood trails.

From .243” bullets on up, I haven’t seen much difference. As others have said, the biggest differences I’ve seen in terminal performance from shot to shot have been related to placement and bullet design.

In my experience, what people mean when they are speaking about the absolutely undefinable "killing power" of one cartridge vs. another is actually the immediate and noticeable reaction to the hit from that cartridge. The 300 WSM with a 180 at 3,000 fps and 338 WM with a 210 at 2,900 have given me more instant and noticeable impressions to the hit on elk sized game than lesser rounds. But the truth is, neither of them dealt any deader-death (the mythical "killing power") than the lowly 308 or 270.

All I require is a bullet in the right spot, and once there that it penetrate and expand... if that's "killing power," then so be it. Beyond that, this stuff is mostly between the ears on NA game. And I sure do enjoy shooting the 308 or 270 more than the 300 or 338...

The biggest effect is shot placement.

After that having a long enough soft bullet to hit at 2600+ and shed material all the way through while still making it all the way through and out. Larger frontal area and higher velocity at exit is better.

All that is better as you go until you get to more than can act on the animal. For instance, .260 120gr kills average Southern deer faster than 300wm 165gr. As you go to larger animals that changes. Tested that many, many times.

Or you can CNS shoot and not worry about it.

Any discussion of killing power is highly always highly controversial, because we all have our biases and therefore tend to interpret experiences and evidence selectively. That being said killing power is of any cartridge/bullet combo is determined by two things, where the bullet hits and how large and deep a wound channel it makes. The challenge is figuring out how large and deep a wound needs to be to effectively kill the game you are after. Here's my bias: I want a bullet on a broadside shot to create an explosive wound channel but still completely penetrate the chest. Then on a not-so-perfect angle, I should be able to drive the bullet into the chest cavity with deadly effect. On deer, lots of bullets and cartridges can do this. A 600 pound bull elk requires more. For me, it starts with the .270 and 150 grain NP. and goes up from there.

That's because it doesn't exist.

I don't have near the experience of a lot of guys in my 60+ year hunting career, but in all the old standard (not magnums) hunting cartridges up to .35...I have had more 'one and done' shots with the .270 than any other cartridge. But, ranges are not long, deer not dressing much over 150. And, quite a few shots were by poor bullet placement, but were still quickly lethal. (the oft discussed hydrostatic shock debate?) So why haven't I hunted with a .270 for over 25 years? Meat waste and bloodshot ugly carcasses is why. I enjoy hunting, but I am not just there for the kill, the whole process from the loading bench to the dinner table is why I hunt. Modest velocities with cup and core seems to do a quick humane kill regardless of bore size.

I haven't seen enough difference on deer between .243, 6.5 Creedmoor, 7x57 mm Mauser, .30-30, .308 and .30-06 to shake a stick at. High shoulder/spine/head they drop, lungs they generally run 20-50 yards before falling with all of them. Can't even really say there's much difference with a .223. Deer shot with it react pretty much the same.

flint, I've always viewed the 270/130 combo on deer-sized game about the same as the 300/180 combo on elk-sized game. Both tend to give immediate and noticeable visual indications of a hit on lung shots. Is that "killing power?" IMO, it's not... I guess I just don't believe in the concept.