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That’s a good post too WTM45.

May God defend me from my friends. I can defend myself from my enemies.
-Voltaire

There have definitely been people who walked away from the Christian faith because they were told by other ‘Christian’s’ that they had to believe in the literal interpretation of everything in the Bible in order to be ‘Christians.’

And there have definitely been people who walked away from the Christian faith because they couldn’t resolve the ‘God is love’ God of the New Testament with the vengeful and violent God of the Old Testament.

And there have definitely been people who walked away from the Christian faith because they couldn’t resolve the good and loving God of the New Testament with their own painful, personal experiences in life and/or with the pain and suffering in the world.

Voltaire was certainly a clever writer. I would probably find myself pretty close to him in matters of human nature and in his opinions of government.

While most considered him an ardent “poker of fun at Christianity” he is attributed to making an interesting statement that concerns an eternal and supreme being:

From Wikipedia…

Like other key Enlightenment thinkers, Voltaire was a deist. He challenged orthodoxy by asking: "What is faith? Is it to believe that which is evident? No. It is perfectly evident to my mind that there exists a necessary, eternal, supreme, and intelligent being. This is no matter of faith, but of reason."

Concluding the “evident” existence of “God” by process of ….reason….

The examples that you give of "walking away from the Christian faith", I respectfully disagree are not the Christian faith.
None of those excuses are anything having to do with THE Christian faith. You guys all need the gospel/good news of Christ that is defined by the Bible that God preserved without error.

This is the Christian faith according to Christ Himself.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "

John 3:16...

More Americans than ever are giving up on, or backing away from, religion (Christianity in particular). They disconnect from religion, they disconnect from God, because they just don’t feel they need it, and it’s ‘not’ because they’ve found atheism so appealing, it’s because they’ve found religion, or the God of their childhood, so unappealing.

It’s ‘not’ because they’ve investigated the truths around, or the teachings around, atheism as much as they’ve just disconnected from something that they just don’t feel like they need anymore, that doesn’t even seem real to them anymore. It’s ‘not’ an attraction to atheism, it’s just that religion (Christianity in particular) doesn’t hold the attraction that it used to hold.

There has not been ‘surge’ of atheism in America.

They are simply unaffiliated; they’ve not ‘embraced’ anything, they’ve just disconnected from religious affiliation.

Hmm…. Perhaps so, but consider the three examples you refer to:


“Must believe ‘everything in the Bible.”

“Walk away … God is love vs OT God.”

“Good loving God vs my own ‘disappointment’ with my life.”

You did not mention a “walking away” because of an issue with Jesus. This may be why we see many churches presenting “Jesus” instead of some bondage inducing nonsense about what one “must accept.”

Btw…. I have had conversations with a number of non-Christians who have offered up very similar objections to the ones you have listed. It has been my experience that the nature and course of those conversations changed dramatically when I asked about their concept and thoughts about Jesus. It is like all of a sudden, the discussion suddenly becomes too personal. Seems we had just left the “field of safe objections” and got right to the heart of the matter. Many are perfectly willing to discuss their “objections” to Christianity but flee from discussing “Jesus.” I conclude that like in John 3:20…. They are uncomfortable in the light…. and prefer to hide in the darkness.

Btw.. I think you are correct about the disconnect idea… many see no need for God nor religion in their lives. “Life is good without God.”

Interestingly, if the US suffers an economic catastrophe or war…. Or anything that shakes us out of our trust in “good times, the government safety net and our own self sufficiency” I would expect “revival.”

Exactly. I’ve never met anyone who walked away from the faith of Christianity because of something that had anything to do with Jesus. I’ve met people who walked away from the faith of Christianity for all kinds of reasons. But I’ve never met anyone who walked away from the faith of Christianity because of something that had anything to do with Jesus.

Yep… but sometimes they run away at the “name” of Jesus…. Made me wonder if there were not some sort of demonic induced fear or strong sense of discomfort that was gripping them.

I am, respectfully, absolutely convinced that the migration away from Christianity and the Christian Church in America, and there has been an enormous migration away from Christianity and the Christian Church in America, is the Church’s fault; it lies at the feet of ‘Christians’. The reason that so many people have disengaged from Christianity and the Church is ‘not’ because of The Message, it’s oftentimes because of the messengers; it’s because of the way things are talked about and presented. At the end of the day, it’s not the fault of these people because they found Christianity so unengaging and so unappealing and so irrational and so unscientific; it’s mostly the fault of ‘Christians’.

Because when you open the Gospels, when you look at the way that Jesus interacted with people…and He’s the person at the very epicenter of everything we believe and everything we do as His followers…you see that people who were nothing like Jesus, liked Jesus. And you see that He liked them back.

These people are not hostile toward religion (Christianity in particular), they’re just not affiliated with it. So perhaps if Christianity isn’t compelling, if Christianity isn’t attractive, if Christianity doesn’t have any adhesiveness to it nowadays…perhaps it is being presented badly and wrongly.

Interesting what you posted. And where did God and Jesus say to seek him................Hhhmmmmmm?
Of course the Universe, not heavens, declare the glory of what God put there. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons..... He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names.
So duh, he placed them in the sky and they told a story and obviously you don't care what the story says because the claim is it is of the devil or witchcraft or whatever. But I'll be darn, it was the Magi (Astrologers) who knew about the story when the religious legalist had no idea.
I don't reject truth by the way, but you certainly do.

That's a tempting challenge, but you won't be convinced no matter what. And I have been where you are at. I taught that for 30yrs or more.
I look at the scriptural posts you make and wonder, how the heck is he misinterpreting that verse or can't actually see what it is saying, such as the one you just posted. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
It is obvious you don't understand who you are or who God is even though it plainly says in the scriptures you read. You have no idea how to enter in the Kingdom nor how to see the face of God, but yet you want to preach to me in an effort to lead me down some primrose path.

Yeah, well…. Your post is somewhat…well I guess “esoteric” can be a term to politely describe it…..pls advise in plain terms the “truth” that you think I reject.

Well, I can see that you have been provoked and are now responding with pure bafflegab.

So, pls explain and be clear about what I am “misinterpreting.”

Can you do this?

I suspect not, but it will be interesting to see you try….. go ahead….proceed.


Edit to add: I am curious…. What tempting challenge was issued?

Here ya go............

Esoteric, now that has a nice ring to it.

Where is the Kingdom? Where does God reside? Where does Christ reside? Where is the Temple? Is God in Temple made by hands? What is a Mazzaraoth? What is the book written within, on the backside, and sealed with 7 seals? .............now there's a start for you.

So, what is your point…. or your objection…. What are you getting at?

More bafflegab ….

So, what is it you object to? Where is the truth that you somehow think I reject?

You are bobbing and weaving…..

Edit to add….. you cannot answer so you send out out more nonsense. You make allegations and cannot back them up.

I get it, you can't answer the questions. No problem. I didn't think you could.