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Joined: Dec 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 23,686 |
If ever the time comes, laws will be the last thing on your mind If the laws don't provide the framework for your response, what does? Pretty sure he’s talking Zombie apocalypse scenario. It’s what all the old boomers prepare for. Completely plausible.
Last edited by jackmountain; 12/03/21.
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Joined: Aug 2020
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 780 |
If ever the time comes, laws will be the last thing on your mind If the laws don't provide the framework for your response, what does? Movies.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 790
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Délavé I have not read Ayoob my point is condeming someone for reading it when you haven't yourself, is pretty rich thus credibility gone. I love Ayood don't even know who he is quit sad. Let the deflection and name calling begin.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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Délavé I have not read Ayoob my point is condeming someone for reading it when you haven't yourself, is pretty rich thus credibility gone. I love Ayood don't even know who he is quit sad. Let the deflection and name calling begin.
OK good job. Go back to being a dumb fugk.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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If ever the time comes, laws will be the last thing on your mind If the laws don't provide the framework for your response, what does? Pretty sure he’s talking Zombie apocalypse scenario. It’s what all the old boomers prepare for. Completely plausible. He's referring to emotion. Most do.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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So you admit it.
Friggin nibbler.
I love watching a COVTARD try to discuss anything. LOL Not nearly as much as you love your right hand.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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Not nearly as much as you love your right hand.
My right hand ain't scared of infection. Unlike a COVTARD. LOL You fugkin' clam.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,597
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,597 |
He was able to "put enough targets on round."
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Not nearly as much as you love your right hand.
My right hand ain't scared of infection. Unlike a COVTARD. LOL You fugkin' clam. Covtard. Is that all you got. You fugkin little bitch.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2020
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Polesmokes getting horned up now.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
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Polesmokes getting horned up now. And Flavor hadn’t even said anything yet about ass 2 mouth. LOL 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Joined: Sep 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Sep 2011
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The last fight I was in, I killed a man. he got his mand caught in my hip pocket, and I drug him to death. 
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,140 |
Paul. your knowledge of law enforcement, violent crime , use of force , the law, mule deer hunting, dog parks is unquestionable . I bow to your expertise As I understand it Burglary.
1. he has a criminal record of past theft
2. he has a history of attempted burglary in the area and this is documented
3. he was seen trespassing in a dwelling, which even under construction, still applies to at a minimum second degree burglary
4. You can be arrested for burglary even if you didn't steal anything if it is believed you had intent,. which had been established with his criminal record and past complaints.
if you argue they didn't have immediate knowledge of a felony in that case, they had immediate knowledge of past felonies, which the escape applies in the citizen's arrest. That's why Georgia expedited changing the law afterwards.
If you are going to involve yourself in making citizens arrests, you really should brush up on the law. https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2014/title-16/chapter-7/article-1/section-16-7-1I'm not sure where anything I said was wrong based on your link, secondly I'm going by what other lawyers are saying, Please be specific as to where you think I am wrong in my example Let's connect some dots. The old GA citizens arrest law only allowed them to detain him if he had committed a felony. The GA law I posted shows that burglary only rises to the felony level IF ...without authority and with the intent to commit a felony or theft therein, he or she enters or remains within an occupied, unoccupied, or vacant dwelling house of another... Let's focus on the "intent to commit a felony or theft" therein." He did not commit a theft. So for them to legally hold him, they would have had to, through some factual means, establish his intent. They obviously could not have possibly known his intent. Curious. How many times did you use deadly force or been involved in a deadly force incident or even a ag assault in your life/career? Ever appear in court and testify as a witness or as a defendant in a use of force matter? How about an inter Amal agency use of force incident? Just curious because you keep citing different use of force laws. This thread is not about me. It's about thoroughly understanding the whole of a decision to use deadly force in self-defense. If you take exception to anything I have said, use your considerable experience to substantively refute it. If not, go fist yourself with your intellectual equal Jim.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Paul how many times have you had to use deadly force in your personal or professional life as an LEO? And you have bought into the BS narrative the prosecution presented. Attempting a Citizens Arrest is not false imprisonment. Arbery had two choices: 1. Comply and wait for the police or 2. Attack those who were attempting a citizens arrest. He choose poorly. And as I said, 20 years ago this wouldn't have made the news. There are thousands of similar cases that never were prosecuted. We live in different times. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Arbery - https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/...facts-the-jury-will-probably-never-hear/If nothing else, you help make my point that after you pull the trigger, the "reasonable" standard no longer belongs to you. Listening to Barnes talk about it, he said a pretty astute statement - first, ask yourself if you really believe citizens have a right to perform a citizens arrest? If you see a rape going on , do you not do anything and call the police? so if you assume a citizen has the right to perform a citizens arrest, then put a police uniform on the McMichaels. Someone calls them and says they believe a felony is happening, the suspect is described and known in the neighborhood as someone suspected of committing past felonies, they arrive and once confronted about being detained until it can sorted out by proper authorities , flees. When confronted, he goes after a weapon and is shot. No police officer would be going to trial over that. also, as he explains it, the Georgia Law as it relates to escaping a felony goes back to the civil war era. The prosecutor essentially made up the the idea the law says you have to see a felony occurring to perform a citizens arrest. Attempting to or actually escaping felony has no time limit under the law. The escape part was specifically written to address slaves escaping and it has nothing to do with escaping a felony that just happened. Finally, I guess there is some ambiguity but the use of a firearm , in this case, one that isn't concealed and is legal, would be used for self defense. While I'm sure wink wink nod nod they only used it for self defense in the attempted detaining of Arbery, the stand your ground laws and open carry are pretty clear in Georgia. If it weren't for that video, I think many people agree they wouldn't have been prosecuted. This goes back to the need to know the law. GA law at the time did not allow the McMichaels to effect a citizens arrest on Arbery in the way that they did based upon what Arbery had done. That's why they were charged and convicted on felony false imprisonment charges. Arming yourself for self defense carries with it terrible responsibilities. Arming yourself to effect citizens arrest, more so yet. And again, the prosecution was successful in quashing Arbery's criminal past and the fact that Arbery was targeting the neighborhood for many months and had an arrest record detailing his criminal past. The McMichael's had prior knowledge of this, had strong suspicion that Arbery was the perp and in the face of the facts was within their rights to attempt a Citizen's Arrest - which at the time was perfectly legal in Georgia. Unfortunately for the McMichael's they picked the wrong decade to exercise their rights to protect themselves and property and unfortunately had a moron videoing the episode. It's a damn shame when the law stands in the way of a good fuggking modern day lynching isn't it.
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,776
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,776 |
I'm not a cop.
I'm not in the business of arresting people, or "detaining" them.
I have almost zero authority to legally detain someone,
using a gun to do so is tenuous at best.
Trying to do it physically is better only in that they are less likely
to end up dead. And a gun looks worse in court.
A cop can pretty much detain anyone, anytime. Handcuffed.
If he makes a mistake, they are innocent, he cuts them loose.
No repercussions. If they resist or run, and get hurt. Their actions
provide reason for the cops hurting them. Again cop is cleared.
I make a mistake. Espscially if someone gets hurt.
I'm toast. If I get my ass beat down trying, it's my problem.
Self defense, defending another. That's one thing.
Whether it's physical or otherwise, sure.
But if the defender tries to leave, I'm letting him.
Except in the gravest situation...
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,517
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,517 |
Paul how many times have you had to use deadly force in your personal or professional life as an LEO?
This thread is not about me. It is about using deadly force in self-defense. Add something of value, or go fist yourself with Jim.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,381
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,381 |
Ignore Clausewitz, Tyson and Ayoob. Failure to plan is planning to fail. Practice, practice, practice. He who hesitates is lost.
mike r
I can't speak to anything Ayboob ever said (and you should be embarrassed by including his name with the other two) but I believe you are taking Clausewitz and Tyson's quotes greatly out of context.
Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,140 |
Mike and Deflave get it. Ayoob has no business commenting on use of force in the US. He's a bloody dumb [bleep]
Ignore Clausewitz, Tyson and Ayoob. Failure to plan is planning to fail. Practice, practice, practice. He who hesitates is lost.
mike r
I can't speak to anything Ayboob ever said (and you should be embarrassed by including his name with the other two) but I believe you are taking Clausewitz and Tyson's quotes greatly out of context.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,024 |
Polesmokes getting horned up now. Hardly. deflave's juvenile bullshit just gets old. "You're a covtard, LOL." It's like being in fifth grade again, only this time it's lasted well over a year.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,140
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,140 |
Paul how many times have you had to use deadly force in your personal or professional life as an LEO?
This thread is not about me. It is about using deadly force in self-defense. Add something of value, or go fist yourself with Jim. Paul you should stick to subjects you are an expert in like stalking 20 year old women in dog parks and lecturing cops when using deadly force to save their lives or mule deer hunting in the backward urban swamps of Louisiana. lmao
Last edited by ribka; 12/03/21.
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