Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Best synthetic 5w30 oil and filter combo

Nope our head Chemist had a PHD from MSOE.He was in charge of determining which oils were good for machining,using in our Semi`s,fork trucks,fleet cars,fleet pick up trucks.I originally went to him to find out which oils were best for my motorcycles.His conclusion was synthetics were no good for breaking in any gas or diesel engine.He also concluded they were not any better or worse for use in cars,motorcycles.He also debunked that sythetics were good for 10,000 miles between changes.So if it makes you feel good to spend extra money and then throw it away by not changing your oil & filter in a timely fashion means you drank the kool aid.

that is confusing in my mind....
the people that make and sell the oil are saying this will last xxx number of miles and you are saying it doesnt
from the stand pint of selling product why would they say it last longer and lose money on sales and if they are no good for breaking in gas motors how come certain cars come new with synthetic in them costing the manufacturer more money....just seems to be shooting yourself in the foot if they arent any better

The Valvoline quik lube I go to uses Valvoline oil and filters so I will say that.

Not defending that guy, But synthetics [and all super slippery oils] can and do prevent new piston rings from seating/sealing compression in a timely order... I believe new vehicle engines today are pre-broken in after assembly...

My God, man; where do you find such drivel..................in both statements.

You are more than misinformed in both cases.

MM

I'm Listening ???

I am only telling you what a man with the right credentials told me.Believe what ever you want to believe.

I believe today's engines are built to tolerances that do not require a "break in" period. I believe the synthetic oil in the 0w20 weight is used to lube those tight tolerances and prevent wear much better than syrup oil we once used.

7MM loco is exactly right.I do not know if newer motors are pre broken in or not.I have built a lot of race motors for MCs.Do all the machining and work myself.I use a straight weight oil for the first 100 miles to break in.I then change to a multi V for the next thousand and change again.You can prove this works by simply putting a magnet on a new engines drain plug and checking it for metal particles after 100 miles.After the second break in you can use synthetic if that makes you feel good.This is what I do.If you have a better plan,lets hear it.

Wonder if Montana ever heard of Ferarra [sp?] honing stones for precise cylinder wall finishing, [ie quick ring seating]... or "Quik seat" dry cylinder assembly lube for almost instant ring seating in new engines... Or the fact that Amsoil [the mother of all synthetic oils] sells a straight 30 wt non synthetic break in oil [great stuff by the way!] for quick ring seating and flat tappet cam protection [ie high zddp, low detergent]... More than misinformed "My Ass"...

Yes... You're bark'in up the right tree here!...

I use Amsoil and their filters!

Yes, you are badly mis-informed, or maybe not informed at all.

I've worked for an OEM supplier of rings, pistons & liners for not only gas engines, but also diesel engines in both the US & Europe; I also started & managed a JV in the US with the largest Japanese ring manufacturer to service the Japanese OEM engine builders in the US, especially Honda.

With dyno facilities for more than a dozen test cells using radiometric tracing for oil consumption.

I also developed & refined the Mo/Ni/Cr plasma applied coating that was the Big 3 industry standard for more than 25 years prior to today's ring coatings having evolved to gas nitriding, PVD (CrN) & some DLC.

There also has not been a North American or Asian engine built with anything but a steel (not cast iron) top ring for more that 20 years, but I'm sure you knew that too..............

Rings for OEM engines (& most AM) have for more than 30 years, been lapped to very low surface finish & to light tightness at bore diameter & need no real seating to attain nominal performance......................that's why new engines basically use no oil as new..............& also to achieve emission standards.

All that with ring tensions of 50% (read that as reduced friction) compared to those of 25 years ago.

OEM's do nothing more than a short hot start to verify all new engines function & meet initial startup parameter values.

There is absolutely ZERO running of ANY automotive OEM engine built today for "seating" rings as you suggest or for some period of time for "break-in".

As for oils, most automotive OEM's today put in semi-synthetic into new engines, as delivered.

You should have some idea of what you talk about...........Sunnen, Barnes & Gehring cylinder honing machines are production workhorses, I'm not a honing expert, but all OEM's have moved from natural stones & oil to CBN or diamond in water based fluids.

As for high performance engines built by real professional builders............read that as NASCAR for example, those parts today have little to no resemblance to what goes into a production engine except that they perform similar functions & taken on the hole most tolerances are considerably tighter.

So yes, they will run those engines at nominal break-in cycles for relatively short periods & duty cycles before doing full power dyno runs before using those engines in a vehicle.

MM

Wix and mobile 1 for me. I don't know if it's any better but that's what I've preferred since high school. I usually have the dealer change it but I bring my own parts.

I watched the dealer use the conventional oil hose on my Toyota a while back when I paid for synthetic. I made them drop it and refill. I don't want conventional in it when they put a change again in 10,000 sticker in the window. After that it was back to bringing my own stuff in just to make sure I get what I want in it.

Those pit guys just grab whatever is closest on yhe bulk hose rack. They don't care. I get my empty mobile 1 bottles back afterwards so the odds are better I got what I wanted.

Bb

That never hurts anything, whether or not it helps depends on the quality of the new parts that you use & how careful you are during machining of parts to keep chips & grit out.

Also depends on how tightly you are mating some of the parts.

OEM's don't fit parts per se', as all parts to built with tolerance stack ups that are at their design levels built it.

Parts have to be supplied to very high statistical capabilities, usually CpK of 1.67 min.

As you probably well know, for the most part, today's automotive OEM engines will outlast most fo the rest of the vehicle, given just minimal care............lots of accessory items may fail before the core engine fails.

MM

MontanaMan... I stand Corrected... And you are Respected!...

No harm, no foul.

You know what you know, I only know what I know.

MM

Although i got "my ass" handed to me by MM on my loose & not well thought out statement about newer oem engines being pre-broken in [ the new part & machining tech doesn't require much break in apparently]..... I still stand by my statement about not using synthetic based oils for newly rebuilt hand assembled engines...... Almost all well known & respected custom engine machinist and assemblers [and also most of the oil co's that cater to them] Don't recommend synthetic based oils for fresh engine ring seal [ie break in]..... This has always been a "catch 22" [damned if u do, damned if u don't] for me as i build flat tappet camshaft engines that require an oil with high levels of anti wear ZDDP [zinc] to protect the cam lobes during break- in.... But this is at odds with the quickest piston ring sealing [ie break in]....... note the best break in specific oils for this are mineral based with both high & low temp activated ZDDP and low detergent levels so as not to wash the zinc off the cam lobes!.... Just my observations and info iv'e gathered over the last 40ish yrs or so.....

I don't think that what you're doing hurts anything at all & I'm not a lifter or cam expert, so I can't comment on the direct benefits in that regards, but I surely can't see that it would ever do any harm............see my comments to Huntz about similar.

But once again, as far as the rings go, they are already broken in, but in many rebuild situations, for me, there's always the question about how good the bore finish is, how straight the bores are & how much bore distortion there is.

All of those factors can contribute to the ring performance in a negative manner, with perfect rings. But again, what you're doing can never hurt anything as far as the rings go.

Newer engines & newer ring designs have much smaller cross sections so they are more conformable than older designs, especially the narrower oil ring designs & that better conformability helps with less than perfect bores.

In the last 20 years or so, the total of the 3 grooves rings axial thicknesses have been reduced by 50%, along with much reduced ring tensions (pressure against the bore) as the OEM's look for more & more friction reduction for whatever gain's that transfers into for meeting CAFE mileage requirements.

Older designs had a top ring width of .078 - .093" (2 - 2.5mm), 2nd ring of .078" (2mm) & an oil ring width of .158" -.186" (4 -4.5mm).

Today's typical automotive engine will be 1.2mm, 1.2mm & 2.5 -3.0mm, for the top, 2nd & oil ring widths, with a few having a 1.0mm top ring.

NASCAR engines today are running top rings as thin as 0.7mm (.027-.030").


MM

Interesting information once again MM...... And i agree, bore finish and distortion [or lack thereof] are crucial to ring seal.... My latest build, A 455 Pontiac was machined by an ASE master certified machinist [he is master certified for blocks & cyl heads] ...... We used a torque plate for honing with bolt depth shimmed to match final assembly..... He had a multi step process he used that included careful attention to temperatures [i don't know the details im not a machinist]... After cleaning, the block was assembled with file fit Speed Pro plasma moly rings [ at least i think they were from memory?]...... After cam break in on my test run stand [simplified here for brevity]...... It was installed in the car and showed no sign of oil usage or smoke or oil wetted spark plugs so typical of many fresh builds [including mine]...... Nothing but [near] perfect ring seal here!...... 7L