To the OP, to the initial question, I think yes. I do not think you can accept salvation without understanding the need for it. I don't think you can understand the need for salvation without truly understanding your own sin nature. I do not believe you have to confess them to mortal man. I do think you have to put them on the table before God, to "own" them before Him, before you can truly ask for forgiveness for them.
Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
No, a decent good person is one who practices the Golden rule as much as possible.
Do you think if you're "good enough", you're GTG?
What did Christ die for if you can make it in on your own account?
This. None are really good.
(Sorry, Im entering this late and it may have been previously explained.)
And if all you have to do to be saved and have everlasting life, why wont satan be there also? Doesnt satan believe?
Why this scripture then, S Cub, R Chuck, HC?
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall. enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth. the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Didnt those who said unto Him, Lord, Lord believe in Him?
I'll try to answer your question best I can.
Matthew 7:21... "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
I will try to break it down to Q & A so that it's easy enough for me to understand. When I get to a text I need to ask basic questions like...
Who is this addressed to? Answer:. The condemned/lost/ unregenerate Verse 21 b & 23
Were they saved by their works, but then lost it somehow how? A:. No, because Jesus " never knew" them to start with.
Did they make Jesus Lord of their life, or consider Him such? Jesus did not dispute that. 21, 22
Did they preach/ prophesy in Jesus Name? I would say yes, because again Jesus did not dispute this.
Did they do many "wonderful works" including casting out devil's?
What/ who were they trusting in for salvation? Why did they think they should be allowed into heaven? A: 22 Their own wonderful works. They had the same confusion that many preachers do today. They mixed faith in Jesus with faith in good works.
"[b]Not by works of righteousness which we have done[/u], but according to his mercy he saved us..." Titus 3:5
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. "Ephesians 2:8,9
What should they have done instead of "AND and in thy name done many wonderful works" kind of faith?
Jaguar,
Jesus gave us the answer to your question.
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40
He didn't say, "pr0phesy, keep the law, or do many good works, because it's too easy to just believe." He was going to be beaten half to death, tortured and the Father putting each and every one of our sins on Him to be punished as much as necessary. Then Christ gave Himself The Sacrifice for us so we could choose.
Is that not enough or is there something else you want to add? I honestly can't think of anything worthy of or compatible to that, can you?
So how do you know they didnt believe first, before doing their good works?
Wouldnt they have to believe in the power of Him to use His name to cast out demons?
If they believed in the power of His name didnt they believe in who He was, who He had to be?
Seems pretty obvious to me that they believed in Him, and now they are cast into the lot of vipers who deny Him.
Is that just?
Didnt they say unto Him, Lord, Lord? Is that not confessing Him with their own mouths?
" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."
There's some who certainly call Him Lord, who mix faith in Christ with faith in their own works, as we see here. Many Epistles address this in one way or another. I think that the Books of Hebrews ie 10, and Galatians chapter 1 cover the keeping of the law as it applies to the subject. These books are written to believers who some had been convinced that they were no longer saved unless they kept some portions of the law.
The gospel of John (KJV) Is the one book devoted to answer your question. It is an honest question with an honest answer 20:30-31. It's only 21 short chapters. I've taken this as a personal"challenge" many times to prove it to myself before I asked others to.
Underline in a hard copy KJV the various forms of the word believe (s, eth, ed). After reading the chapter, write the total down with the chapter number. After reading the 21 chapters, you will have just 21 numbers to add. Then do the same for the word "repent / repentance". Tell me what you have for the sum totals for that book when you are done. I hope that this will be as much a blessing to you as it is for me.
No, a decent good person is one who practices the Golden rule as much as possible.
Do you think if you're "good enough", you're GTG?
What did Christ die for if you can make it in on your own account?
This. None are really good.
(Sorry, Im entering this late and it may have been previously explained.)
And if all you have to do to be saved and have everlasting life, why wont satan be there also? Doesnt satan believe?
Why this scripture then, S Cub, R Chuck, HC
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall. enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth. the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Didnt those who said unto Him, Lord, Lord believe in Him?
I'll try to answer your question best I can.
Matthew 7:21... "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
I will try to break it down to Q & A so that it's easy enough for me to understand. When I get to a text I need to ask basic questions like...
Who is this addressed to? Answer:. The condemned/lost/ unregenerate Verse 21 b & 23
SO, HIS REQUIREMENTS FOR THE JUST AND CONDEMNED/LOST ARE DIFFERENT?
Were they saved by their works, but then lost it somehow how? A:. No, because Jesus " never knew" them to start with.
Did they make Jesus Lord of their life, or consider Him such? Jesus did not dispute that. 21, 22
Did they preach/ prophesy in Jesus Name? I would say yes, because again Jesus did not dispute this.
Did they do many "wonderful works" including casting out devil's?
What/ who were they trusting in for salvation? Why did they think they should be allowed into heaven? A: 22 Their own wonderful works. They had the same confusion that many preachers do today. They mixed faith in Jesus with faith in good works. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THEY WERE SURPRISED AND WERE ONLY SHOWING THAT THEY BELIEVED IN HIM
"[b]Not by works of righteousness which we have done[/u], but according to his mercy he saved us..." Titus 3:5
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. "Ephesians 2:8,9
What should they have done instead of "AND and in thy name done many wonderful works" kind of faith?
IM WAITING FOR YOU TO TELL ME.
Jaguar,
Jesus gave us the answer to your question.
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40
He didn't say, "pr0phesy, keep the law, or do many good works, because it's too easy to just believe." He was going to be beaten half to death, tortured and the Father putting each and every one of our sins on Him to be punished as much as necessary. Then Christ gave Himself The Sacrifice for us so we could choose.
Is that not enough or is there something else you want to add?
SO, IF YOU ARE NOT A GENTLE, LOVING EXAMPLE OF THE 9 FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT YOU'RE JUST SOL? IF YOU EVER DECIDE TO CUSS SOMEONE OUT EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW HE DOESNT WANT YOU TO AND YOU DO AS YOU WISH INSTEAD OF WHAT HE WISHES YOU'RE JUST SOL?
A WHOLE LOT OF BELIEVERS CANT SAY THEY ARE COVERED IN THIS: … 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control.
HC, my replies to your post are in CAPITAL letters above.
Can you say that if you were starving you wouldnt steal an apple off your neighbors tree?
IOW, HC, There are a lot of believers who believe compared to the very few who actually make HIM ruler or Lord of their life.
So, i guess most believers best repent.
Now, what does that mean? To be sorry for your sins, or turn from them and live as the scripture i quoted said?
If you repent of your sin and ever follow your own desire, did you truly repent?
So, that leaves us with You have to believe AND DOETH THE WILL OF THE FATHER (which the suckers He said He didnt know didnt evidently do.)
Last edited by jaguartx; 12/20/21.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
How many times have I answered your question. I told you if you ask me a question about Jesus or God's Word I will use God's Word to help answer a question.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."
There's some who certainly call Him Lord, who mix faith in Christ with faith in their own works, as we see here. Many Epistles address this in one way or another. I think that the Books of Hebrews ie 10, and Galatians chapter 1 cover the keeping of the law as it applies to the subject. These books are written to believers who some had been convinced that they were no longer saved unless they kept some portions of the law.
The gospel of John (KJV) Is the one book devoted to answer your question. It is an honest question with an honest answer 20:30-31. It's only 21 short chapters. I've taken this as a personal"challenge" many times to prove it to myself before I asked others to.
Underline in a hard copy KJV the various forms of the word believe (s, eth, ed). After reading the chapter, write the total down with the chapter number. After reading the 21 chapters, you will have just 21 numbers to add. Then do the same for the word "repent / repentance". Tell me what you have for the sum totals for that book when you are done. I hope that this will be as much a blessing to you as it is for me.
You want us readers to read John. For some reason you think it's all there. But how many times in Matthew, Mark, or Luke do you find, "In the beginning was the Word......."? You try to use a portion of God's Word to distort God's Word. What happens to people who distort God's Word. 2 Peter 3:16 says they distort God's Word to their own destruction.
You seem to be caught up in the Law of Moses. And then distort that to conflate the New Testament instructions with the Moses Law. There are many things God wants believers to do to demonstrate they are believers. If these are not present they are NOT believers. You used Hebrews 10. Take a look at Hebrews 3:18-19. Here God's Word defines belief. It reads, "And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those were were DISOBEDIENT? And we see that they were not able to enter because of UNBELIEF."
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."
There's some who certainly call Him Lord, who mix faith in Christ with faith in their own works, as we see here. Many Epistles address this in one way or another. I think that the Books of Hebrews ie 10, and Galatians chapter 1 cover the keeping of the law as it applies to the subject. These books are written to believers who some had been convinced that they were no longer saved unless they kept some portions of the law.
The gospel of John (KJV) Is the one book devoted to answer your question. It is an honest question with an honest answer 20:30-31. It's only 21 short chapters. I've taken this as a personal"challenge" many times to prove it to myself before I asked others to.
Underline in a hard copy KJV the various forms of the word believe (s, eth, ed). After reading the chapter, write the total down with the chapter number. After reading the 21 chapters, you will have just 21 numbers to add. Then do the same for the word "repent / repentance". Tell me what you have for the sum totals for that book when you are done. I hope that this will be as much a blessing to you as it is for me.
You want us readers to read John. For some reason you think it's all there. But how many times in Matthew, Mark, or Luke do you find, "In the beginning was the Word......."? You try to use a portion of God's Word to distort God's Word. What happens to people who distort God's Word. 2 Peter 3:16 says they distort God's Word to their own destruction.
You seem to be caught up in the Law of Moses. And then distort that to conflate the New Testament instructions with the Moses Law. There are many things God wants believers to do to demonstrate they are believers. If these are not present they are NOT believers. You used Hebrews 10. Take a look at Hebrews 3:18-19. Here God's Word defines belief. It reads, "And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those were were DISOBEDIENT? And we see that they were not able to enter because of UNBELIEF."
If you want to apply what I said to Jaguar, you might want to at least read the reference I started with.
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Theme of this book. Some may argue, 3:16, but either way, Jesus is THE way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Him."...... Not the law of the Old Covenant.
" Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."
There's some who certainly call Him Lord, who mix faith in Christ with faith in their own works, as we see here. Many Epistles address this in one way or another. I think that the Books of Hebrews ie 10, and Galatians chapter 1 cover the keeping of the law as it applies to the subject. These books are written to believers who some had been convinced that they were no longer saved unless they kept some portions of the law.
The gospel of John (KJV) Is the one book devoted to answer your question. It is an honest question with an honest answer 20:30-31. It's only 21 short chapters. I've taken this as a personal"challenge" many times to prove it to myself before I asked others to.
Underline in a hard copy KJV the various forms of the word believe (s, eth, ed). After reading the chapter, write the total down with the chapter number. After reading the 21 chapters, you will have just 21 numbers to add. Then do the same for the word "repent / repentance". Tell me what you have for the sum totals for that book when you are done. I hope that this will be as much a blessing to you as it is for me.
You want us readers to read John. For some reason you think it's all there. But how many times in Matthew, Mark, or Luke do you find, "In the beginning was the Word......."? You try to use a portion of God's Word to distort God's Word. What happens to people who distort God's Word. 2 Peter 3:16 says they distort God's Word to their own destruction.
You seem to be caught up in the Law of Moses. And then distort that to conflate the New Testament instructions with the Moses Law. There are many things God wants believers to do to demonstrate they are believers. If these are not present they are NOT believers. You used Hebrews 10. Take a look at Hebrews 3:18-19. Here God's Word defines belief. It reads, "And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those were were DISOBEDIENT? And we see that they were not able to enter because of UNBELIEF."
Our two crazies believers arguing about which one of them is the true believer and which one will go to hell.
Priceless....
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 12/20/21.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
If you want to apply what I said to Jaguar, you might want to at least read the reference I started with.
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." Theme of this book. Some may argue, 3:16, but either way, Jesus is THE way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Him."...... Not the law of the Old Covenant.
And what does Jesus, Who is the Savior, tell us recorded at the end of Luke? Here It is....Luke 24:46-47,
"And Jesus said to them, 'Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations....'"
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
No, a decent good person is one who practices the Golden rule as much as possible.
Do you think if you're "good enough", you're GTG?
What did Christ die for if you can make it in on your own account?
+1
All men sin and fall short of the standard. Anyone claiming to be good and decent a) deludes themselves and b) tries to replace God's standard with their own. Hint: it's gonna backfire.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
And here is the Lamb's take....................And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.”
Don't you think Jesus is good?
I don't know if he was or not and neither do you factually, so all we have left to go on is what was written in that book. He himself says he is not good. That was repeated by 3 of the writers in the NT. He even says there are none righteous either, so there you are. I have noticed where it says that the unjust get to go to the wedding supper. So I'm not worried one bit about going any where after death. God is not a god of the dead and everything promised can be had right now and I know that to be true. Don't even need "faith" to know that since faith means you are not sure. I do find it interesting that you refuse to follow Christ's instructions but find it necessary to preach to me or whomever and as God in your book wrote, He knew you not. Never called you, never asked you to do anything of the sort.
DBT fear not, I will answer your question soon as I get some time. I may be 70 but I still work.
And here is the Lamb's take....................And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.”
Don't you think Jesus is good?
I don't know if he was or not and neither do you factually, so all we have left to go on is what was written in that book. He himself says he is not good. That was repeated by 3 of the writers in the NT.
I am going by the Good Book as all can see from the past year. Where exactly did Jesus say he "is NOT good?"
He even says there are none righteous either, so there you are. I have noticed where it says that the unjust get to go to the wedding supper. So I'm not worried one bit about going any where after death. God is not a god of the dead and everything promised can be had right now and I know that to be true. Don't even need "faith" to know that since faith means you are not sure.
The Bible translation I use is correct. Faith and believe are terms that convey trust to the unbeliever so they will be a BELIEVER, Not a doubter. Please read the gospel of John and see if you can come away thinking that the reader should be"not sure" Who Jesus is and what He did to obtain our salvation.
I do find it interesting that you refuse to follow Christ's instructions but find it necessary to preach to me or whomever and as God in your book wrote, He knew you not. Never called you, never asked you to do anything of the sort.
To the OP, to the initial question, I think yes. I do not think you can accept salvation without understanding the need for it. I don't think you can understand the need for salvation without truly understanding your own sin nature. I do not believe you have to confess them to mortal man. I do think you have to put them on the table before God, to "own" them before Him, before you can truly ask for forgiveness for them.
Tom
Thanks Tom. In case you didn't read my posts on the subject, I just want to leave you with my personal view on this subject. I believe in repentance too. There's a distinction that must be made by the use and context. First, the word "repent" doesn't mean "turn from your sins." God repented many times and we know that God does not sin. As the term applies to salvation I will provide the short video below.
And here is the Lamb's take....................And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.”
Don't you think Jesus is good?
I don't know if he was or not and neither do you factually, so all we have left to go on is what was written in that book. He himself says he is not good. That was repeated by 3 of the writers in the NT.
I am going by the Good Book as all can see from the past year. Where exactly did Jesus say he "is NOT good?"
He even says there are none righteous either, so there you are. I have noticed where it says that the unjust get to go to the wedding supper. So I'm not worried one bit about going any where after death. God is not a god of the dead and everything promised can be had right now and I know that to be true. Don't even need "faith" to know that since faith means you are not sure.
The Bible translation I use is correct. Faith and believe are terms that convey trust to the unbeliever so they will be a BELIEVER, Not a doubter. Please read the gospel of John and see if you can come away thinking that the reader should be"not sure" Who Jesus is and what He did to obtain our salvation.
I do find it interesting that you refuse to follow Christ's instructions but find it necessary to preach to me or whomever and as God in your book wrote, He knew you not. Never called you, never asked you to do anything of the sort.
Don't you wish you or your translation was correct.
Quote
Where exactly did Jesus say he "is NOT good?
I posted this before, but just for your convenience and so you show all your churchy buddies what you found, I'll post one of them this last time. Go find the rest yourself.
Mark 10:18 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
And here is the Lamb's take....................And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.”
Don't you think Jesus is good?
I don't know if he was or not and neither do you factually, so all we have left to go on is what was written in that book. He himself says he is not good. That was repeated by 3 of the writers in the NT.
I am going by the Good Book as all can see from the past year. Where exactly did Jesus say he "is NOT good?"
He even says there are none righteous either, so there you are. I have noticed where it says that the unjust get to go to the wedding supper. So I'm not worried one bit about going any where after death. God is not a god of the dead and everything promised can be had right now and I know that to be true. Don't even need "faith" to know that since faith means you are not sure.
The Bible translation I use is correct. Faith and believe are terms that convey trust to the unbeliever so they will be a BELIEVER, Not a doubter. Please read the gospel of John and see if you can come away thinking that the reader should be"not sure" Who Jesus is and what He did to obtain our salvation.
I do find it interesting that you refuse to follow Christ's instructions but find it necessary to preach to me or whomever and as God in your book wrote, He knew you not. Never called you, never asked you to do anything of the sort.
Don't you wish you or your translation was correct.
Quote
Where exactly did Jesus say he "is NOT good?
I posted this before, but just for your convenience and so you show all your churchy buddies what you found, I'll post one of them this last time. Go find the rest yourself.
Mark 10:18 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
He did not say that he was not good. His question should have gotten that man to see Who was actually before him. Jesus says, "there is none good but one, that is, God."
Jesus is not admitting to sin, but I can share more than one O.T. and N.T. statement about all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Jesus, the sinless sacrifice, went to the cross bearing our sins. After His resurrection, He spent time with over 500 people to prove this before going up to His earned glory to be with the Father.
I think that there must be a lot of sermons across the country applying this as a passage simply on humility. I've heard one say that if Jesus Christ didn't think He was good, then so much worse are we. However, this is a mistaken presumption. There are many references to not only God being good, but Jesus as well. In fact, Jesus would not be Christ if He were not good. Is He not the "Good Shepherd?" Rather than a mock humility, I look at what the man called Jesus when he approached Him....."good master." The rabbis were calling themselves masters/ teachers. It doesn't look to me like this man realized that Jesus was not only a master, but the One and only Christ. Jesus often asked questions to get the audience to think and come to their own conclusion. He taught to multitudes and healed many, even creating food for thousands at a time. Any old Rabbi doesn't do that. Any ol master isn't good either.....but God is.
One last thing is that the man wanted to inherit eternal life. Jesus must have known that he was trusting in his ability to keep the law, so Jesus threw him a curve ball. He approached him about covetousness and giving up that which he valued. Rather than realizing his own short coming and that He really did need the Christ, he went away sorrowful. When we try to keep all the commandments to have eternal life, we all fail. I thank God that He is Savior, because I need Him.
The nature of Love is described in the NT. We are told that god is Love. According to the rules of Love, a blood sacrifice is not required, love we are told forgives unconditionally. To have someone killed as the cost of forgiveness is not an act of love.
