Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Is "Repenting of Your Sins" Needed For Salvation?

No, but it is the quickest way for con artists and those of that ilk to relieve you of your coin.

Still not an explanation for why 'sin entered the world' - or who, in this scenario, was responsible.

A hint, the Creator is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent.

Free will is not an excuse.

Where does the buck stop? Who do you think is responsible for the mess? The creator of the mess or the creatures for acting in accordance to their created nature and makeup? Created fallable, only to be condemned for it?

So, you ask a simple question of me, which I clearly answer. And then, I ask the same question of you, which you refuse to answer. And then you move the goalposts.




shocker

Asking for details is not moving the goalposts. I understand why you prefer to keep your 'explanations' at simple slogan level.

Nor is my position relevant to the subject of creation or the question of why 'sin entered' a world created by an omniscient/omnipotent God...which is the point of contention. Slogans do not explain a thing.

Religion says, “Change and you can join us.” But Jesus says, “Follow me and you will change.” There's a very big difference. Jesus doesn't expect us to be perfect. He just wants us to follow Him. Being a sinner doesn't disqualify us from following Him. Being an unbeliever doesn't disqualify us from following Him. In fact, following Him almost always begins with a sinner taking one small step.

Remember that old TV show, "You are there"? Well you are threre.

…..or an unbeliever taking one huge one!

😁

I think His teachings are so good, that even if one ‘is’ an unbeliever, if one will simply follow His teachings, it will make one’s life better, and it will make one better at life. And who doesn’t want their life to be better…? And who doesn’t want to be better at life…?

Since you are not a god, you do not control the initial conditions, so your comparison is not valid.

And how exactly did "sin enter the world"?
Does your god not plan everything?
Is his plan not perfect?
Yet everything came a part when "sine entered the world" as part of his perfect plan?

As their parent, I absolutely do control the initial conditions…I chose to bring them into this world…knowing ahead of time that they were going to experience pain and heartache in this life. My comparison is absolutely valid.

Can the same not be said of other philosophies and religions?

The faith of Christianity says that we have a future hope; and to me, it’s tethered to a brutal fact. And that brutal fact is that there is a global relationship between sin and suffering. When sin entered the world…whether the original sin theology from the Law and the Prophets is literally true or allegory…it held the door open for death, illness, sorrow, pain, suffering, and despair. They all came in right behind sin. It's not fair, and it takes everything out of our control. But there it is. I believe that God’s plan…whatever it is…is sovereign. Do I understand it all…? Nope. Neither does anyone else. But Jesus’ message was one of hope, that never lost sight of the brutal fact that sin was making its way through the world and would touch every single one of us human beings.

You tell me. But, if the same can be said of other philosophies and religions, it still in no wise diminishes my assertion above.

It entered the world when Eve, of free will, chose to do so. You assume that everything that happens is God’s will, therefore it’s part of His micro-managed plan. That is YOUR interpretation of how it should work.

God hates sin. Yet it happens. Why? The natural sin that’s been passed down to us as well as our individual free wills. Knowing specific humans will commit specific sins isn’t the same as making those humans commit those sins and in the end, they won’t affect His perfect plan. In the end, we all give up this human form and stand in His judgement. That’s His stated plan and when you look at your life in the flesh as a “puff of smoke” in the timeline of infinity, the minutia that unbelievers dredge up suddenly becomes inconsequential in the scope of that perfect plan.

It's a lot easier to understand if you just take god(s) out of the equation.

Did he not make Eve and know every action she would take at that moment, but have a choice to make her differently, and hence she would make different choices? Didn't he have trillions of versions of Eve to choose from, yet he chose one that would bring sin into the world?

To be clear, Free Will and Pascals Wager and threats of Judgement doesn't get you out of this chain of responsibility.

Please re-read my last post. It literally addresses every aspect of your response…..with exception to the concept of alternate realities. I can’t recall alternate realities being mentioned in the bible, though. That’s a secular thing. I’ll have to defer to your opinion on that matter.

To be clear, ignoring the significance of free will and God’s judgement as acceptable is YOUR choice. Anyone who believe’s in God’s Word knows them to be valid points in the topic of sin.

Not only that, but all the elements of failure are put into place to practically guarantee failure; a naive couple who have no knowledge of good and evil, a cunning serpent, forbidden fruit, a test that ensures failure, etc.....

Imagine a conversation between Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins...and the Apostle Peter. Harris and Dawkins would start out with their blistering critique of the Old Testament and highlight God’s genocidal directives to the Hebrews to go into a land and kill everybody and everything in the land, then they’d go on and on about the dangers of religion and they’d cite all of the atrocities carried out in the name of religion throughout history, and especially Christian atrocities. And, they might question God’s plan and how He set up a naive couple in the Garden of Eden to fail. And then punish humanity for their failure.

But...the foundation of the Christian faith is not a cobbled together group of manuscripts that describes these things. Peter might respond by telling them that he’s certainly familiar with the history of his people; much more so than they are. And maybe that he’s never questioned it because that’s how he was raised. And he’d likely point out that none of that...nothing thats been said by any of them has anything to do with his decision to now follow Jesus. The unbelievers would reference the inadequacy of Peter’s beliefs, so then Peter would explain his reasoning...and He only has one reason.

When Jesus was arrested, Peter ran...and when asked if he knew Jesus, Peter lied. And when the Romans crucified Jesus, He died. And at that time, Peter was like the unbelievers…he had no faith. He didn’t know what to believe. He had no reason to believe, because he didn’t know what to believe. He’d just spent 3 years of his life following a now dead false prophet, and now he had a price on his head.

And then Jesus came, and there He was...very much alive.

Peter wouldn’t see it as bein’ worth arguing about anything the unbelievers had said, but he’d very likely clarify one thing...his reason for believing wasn’t something he’d heard or read or had read to him. Peter believed what he believed because of what he saw...he watched Jesus die, he knew exactly where He was buried, but God raised Him from the dead...and Peter saw Him, and he saw Him more than once. That’s the reason...that’s the only reason...for Peter’s hope and belief.

And that’s the reason for my hope and belief as well.