Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

There's 2 cases of Norma .458 Win Mag brass for sale in the classifieds. Seller's name "ohiofarmer"

Maybe the secret of Quality Control in Bullet Casting:



The Norma-made .458 WinMag brass I have is surprisingly greater in capacity,
lighter in weight, and softer than the other makes of brass I use.
I save the Norma brass for BPCR loads with real BP and paper-patched bullets in the .458 WinMag.
I prefer Hornady, W-W, and R-P brass for smokeless loads.

Here are two bullets that will be great for trial with BP or Blackhorn 209
in the .458 WM-BPCR using Norma brass,
or CVA Paramount .45-cal muzzleloader:









Gold color on bases of shiny silver Bagwell bullets is reflection of plywood next to bullets:





I may need to try a carefully tended, wood-fired melting pot to get a cull rate of 1 out of 105.
I improved a bit with the last outing.
I am still throwing about ten of the first hundred back into the pot.

With proper prep of the mould,
that first dozen or so bullets as the mould and casting person get up to speed is the killer of a zero cull rate.
After that, if one remembers how to position his tongue just right in his mouth as he is filling the mould,
perfect bullets are about guaranteed.
Even a caveman can do it.



Problem is, after about a hundred drops from the melting pot and ladle,
fatigue and the munchies set in.
So you stop for a snack and have to start all over again.
Another instance of pot side-effects, the munchies.

Review of basics on beating the SAAMI .458 Lott with a SAAMI-chamberd .458 WinMag allowed the higher pressure of the Lott
and whatever length for COL you like:





A match load with potential:



Three shots at 50 yards:



Two shots in one hole and then a flinch to the left:



Even a caveman can do it. The .458 WinMag makes it that easy.

There is slim hope for a year better than the last two, but there is hope.
How could the next be worse ?
We will probably find out soon enough.

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2022 !

LOL Sir Ron, wish i was good enough to cast with wood fire, that most certainly will remain comfortably above my pay grade , your bullets are looking good, Saint Bagwell would be proud, again with the Great 458 WM+, the possibilities are endless.

Truer words were never said.

LET'S GO BRANDON !

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The hardcast are painted blue.
The 20:1 are painted red.

One possibility is to size the 20:1 "Red Death" Bagwell Bullet down to .453" from .456" as cast.
Then ram it down the .452" bore of the CVA Paramount, atop a charge of Blackhorn 209.
Scope sighted muzzleloader might allow even a caveman to mimic Saint Sir Bill Bagwell's BPCR with barrel sights,
in ballistics at least, even if not in superhuman accuracy.
The caveman is still doing the aiming and trigger pulling.

The same bullet might also be paper-patched up to .459" and loaded with duplexed BP in the Norma .458 WinMag brass.
That would be "special" in a .458 WinMag (1:14" twist)
or the surrogate .45-100-2.6" Sharps Winchester Throated (1:18" and 1:20" twist).
I am thinking grease cookie, paper patch, PC paint, and smokeless starter under BP to match the compressed BP ballistics of .45-70 Govt.
Could shoot all week and never have to blow or wipe.

Like Sir Jerry said, the possibilities are endless,
with a SAAMI-chambered .458 WinMag.
I only have about a million unfinished projects lined up for it.

Good news!

I was able to locate some .458 Win Mag brass! Not new but once fired Hornady, of three different weigh hardcasts: 390gr, 405gr and 485gr. And the loads were modest using H4895.

I went online and nothing new was found in Canada. But 40 Hornady once-fired cases, plus new looking Lee dies were offered for $65 Cdn only 1 and 1/2 hours drive from here. So I'll pick them up tomorrow. Since my plan is to do a lot of bullet testing in the spring of the new, heavy 600gr Barnes O, 550gr Woodleighs and 500gr Hornady DGX's, I was in need for some additional brass.

Since the once-fired brass has only endured modest loads, and mine will be mild, they should last "forever"!

"Whatever is good and perfect comes to us from God above" - James, the apostle ch 1:17 (NLB)

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Sir Bob,

That is a great find.
Hornady brass is my favorite, and W-W is number two on my hit parade.
The seater plug on the LEE die is the best shape there is for any and all .458-caliber bullets.
I have Redding, RCBS, Hornady, and LEE dies.
The LEE set will do it all for the .458 WM, especially useful is the Factory Crimp Die by LEE.
Just like a .458 WM Ruger No. 1 in the usefulness category.
On your latest blog entry: AMEN !
Looking forward to part two on the single shot hunting rifle.
I am a member of the choir you are preaching too.

Appearance of the shaked and baked bullets before sizing is shown below.
PC paint adds about 1-2 grains weight.
The Hornady .45-cal gas check weighs 8.17 grains on average.
Call it 8 grains for GC and 2 grains for PC-Paint on the bigger bullets.
Sizing will apply the gas checks where needed.
Sizing will shine up the bearing surfaces of all of these bullets.

Bob,
Great Blog post! I mourn for my Ruger #1 long departed to a friend who really "had to have it." It was perfectly suitable for anything I ever hunted with it. Frankly, I could reload it just a fast as the bolt guys who take the gun off their shoulder, which if you watch hunting video's seems to be almost everybody. Only needed to reload it once on a running bull elk. Some pretty poor shooting on my part as he ran across an Alfalfa field 90 degrees to me at 400+ yards led me to reload several times. Once I got the lead right, down he went.
Also I have written on the "other" forum about pulling an unbroken stomach out of a doe deer with the 458 and FN cast bullet just like your story did on the bear. Shot in the chest at 15 yards or so as she ran out of a thicket. Bullet exited flank as did the stomach. I saw it and thought "oh no! What a mess this will be!" Nope bullet simply created the vacuum behind the diaphragm and out went the stomach behind the bullet with no mess at all.

You are the master chef of powder coating! The more that I read on the powder coating, the more appealing it is.

What are you resizing with ?
I see some recommend the sizing dies in a single stage press.

I do not currently have a Lubri-Sizer or such. I am considering the single sizing dies. If I can find the correct sizes.

That is some weird stuff for sure with bear intestine and deer stomach getting sucked out of the .458 exit hole.
I once hit a fallow doe in the brisket at 342 yards.
The full length of belly unzipped in midline and nearly completely gutted the animal on the hoof.
My spotter watching through the laser range finder said:
"Dang ! That deer's guts popped out !"
I was using a Ruger No. 1 .416 Rigby with 350-gr X-Bullet.
Of course my aim might have been better if I had been using a .458 WinMag Ruger No. 1.
Confidence in a cartridge breeds accuracy.

Sir Larry,
I am no master powder coater.
It is just easy for a beginner to get decent results, even a caveman can do it.

I like the simple push-through dies from Lee and CH4D.
Grab them off the shelf or custom order as necessary, whenever possible to place an order.
Base-pusher-through-put installs gas check and sizes bullet.
I use RCBS Ammo Master II single-stage reloading press for cast bullets,sizing down no more than 0.003".
The PC-paint is the sizing lube, but bullets can also be lubed by rolling on a lube pad like brass cases.
The water soluble RCBS Case Lube 2 on a Lyman pad works well.

If you start sizing jacketed and monometal copper bullets you will need the lube,
and maybe a one-ton arbor press rigged to do it.

I have a Lyman Lubrisizer (nose pusher) but do not like the mess of grease lubes.
Only for BPCR will I mess with grease instead of PC paint.
I might someday try it without grease for PC-painted bullet sizing , or partial/nose-sizing, maybe ...

Expect the hardcast PC-painted bullets to spring back to about 0.001" bigger than the sizer die diameter.
Soft lead alloy should size closer to nominal sizer die diameter.

Jacketed and monometal copper bullets spring back to about 0.002" larger than the sizer die diameter.

Sir Ron,
Thank you for the advice. I am certain that I shall impose upon you again as this endeavor moves forward.

Update:
Lee Classic Sizing Dies ordered. I suppose that I will have to special order from Lee, the ones for the 475 Linebaugh.

As a devout fan and defender of the .416’s. What more might one ask, than a round that guts ‘em for you ?
If you had been using a 416 Remington, it would have likely skinned it as well as gutted. The 416 Ruger would have most likely done all the prior plus, packed it out for you.
Truly, One must have confidence in the cartridge.

Thanks Ron

I got them yesterday on the heels of a blustery day... Driving was rather miserable but worth it. It turned out that they had been resized and primed, but I don't yet know with what primer as his info didn't include that. They are silver in color and the WLRM are sort of a gold color. I don't want to de-prime them so will have to give them a try as is. The cases look excellent, and so does the LEE die set. And I do have the LEE crimp die. I'll be putting some loads together over winter.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Winter has arrived at the Mason Dixon Line, zero-degree-F wind chill last night.
Drove me to reading the latest GUN DIGEST, 76th ed. of 2022.

Hooray ! We are winning.
In all accounts found in that book there are no lies about the .458 WinMag.
Even Terry Wieland has shut up about the .458 WM versus Lott Big Lie.

Joe Coogan's article "Guns of the African Professionals" shows that over the last 125 years, the top picks are the .458 WinMag and the .470 NE.
More than 25% of the PHs loved that .458 WinMag.
The list started with Finn Aagaard and ended 160 names later with Dougie Wright.
Both first and last on the alphabetical listing preferred the .458 Win. Mag.

There is a nice piece by Phil Shoemaker, "HANDGUNS AND BEAR PROTECTION: A Master Guides' Opinion"
in which he mentions longing for Old Ugly the .458 WinMag above all other artillery.

Patrick Sweeney article "How to Tune Your AR-15" reminds me of the great difference a throat can make.
5.56 Nato chamber digests loads that can be dangerous in the short and tight throat of a .223 Rem.

Just like a perfectly safe .458 WM+ load can be dangerous in a SAAMI .458 Lott.

Suppressors can give a free-bore-boost in velocity.
I am thinking that is sort of why a .458 WM+ can beat a SAAMI .458 Lott with same
400-gr bullet, COL, and powder charge.
The COL is that of the .458 Lott crimped on the factory bullet cannelure.
The .458 WM with shorter brass and longer bullet projection produces identical powder compression at same COL as the .458 Lott.

400-gr Woodleigh PPSN loaded to 3.425" COL

.458 Lott gave only 2570 fps according to the Woodleigh Bullets Loading Manual.

My .458 WM+ with same bullet, powder, and COL gave +2620 fps, over 50 fps faster, and you know it has to be at lower pressure
than the pressure in the SAAMI .458 Lott.
Physics does not lie.
Must be the FREE BORE BOOST EFFECT.