Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles The rifle market sucks…

Darrik,

What price range do you think folks are willing to pay for the types of rifles they are wanting?

John

John,

The bar has been raised. To put things into perspective, Ruger American Go Wild’s are around $600 everywhere - give or take $40 each way. Inflation has taken its toll on the gun market. I see everything being $200 or so higher than a few years ago. Some exceptions with models currently still in production, but not many. Keep in mind we’ve always been on the low side of the price curve. Some readers on here were probably seeing guns in this range previously.

I don’t think customers would walk away from a new $849 Remington 700 SPS Stainless. Maybe even $899? When they were in production and readily available, the last ones we had were around $679 to $700. I’m talked standard weight hunting rifles. I also don’t think customers would walk away from a Ruger Hawkeye or 77 MKII in the same price range. Again, speaking specifically about standard sporter stainless/synthetic version.

Kimber Montana’s were always higher. Our last few were $1149 or so if I remember correctly. The new normal would be $1400. Fieldcraft’s could be $1899-$1999 easily. Kimber Classic’s could fetch the same money as the Montana. That only holds true if they came back in the same form or of equality quality. Slapping the name on a new version with a cheaper stock isn’t an improvement and would soon be cast aside by real rifle guys.

The Montana Rifle Company could easily fall in line with Kimber pricing if done right. No more crappy stocks. They need a stock equal to the previous Kimber’s or Barrett’s to succeed. They’d also need to pay attention to weight, extraction/feeding, safety operation and twists.

Gunbroker is telling us daily what the market is willing to pay.

I saw that rifle. Was hoping to nobody would know what it was.

Love my weatherbies

I haven't bought a new gun in 5 yrs and at the same time don't know how many used guns I have bought in that time. Many of us here are the same but we are the minority of a shrinking number of gun buyers.

I could be wrong but I think part of the issue is that tastes in firearms are changing. I believe younger generations are more interested in ARs, pistol caliber carbines, and tactical-style bolt guns than hunting rifles. The market goes where the demand is.

When someone can sell a Remington 700BDL 30/06 for $1500, that would tend to shoot your theory full of holes.

My son is 22. He has an AR for govarmints.

Outside of that - a MKII in 243 (wood/blue) and a Bergara 30-06.

He lusts over traditional rifles.

The shelves aren't well stocked with them.

The younger people want/buy what's available and if all that's available is AR based - that's what gets sold which perpetuates the idea that onlyy those will sell. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Some - definitely but you tell me all these hipsters wearing vintage flannel, boots and hats all suggenly want ARs when it comes to guns? And yes, young people are buying guns...

I’d like to add this to the conversation. I’ll use Kimber as an example.

Kimber has another revenue line - pistols. I’ve been told the pistols are where they make their profits and I fully believe and understand that to be the truth. I don’t think anyone can question the fact that the pistol line far outsold the rifle line. They market their 1911’s as “custom” and it’s served them well.

From a retailers perspective, we need every pistol they make on the shelf. Every variation of the 1911 they produce sells, period. The rifle line was a totally different story. They had far too many SKU’s. Certain models would linger on the shelf for years. I’d eventually mark it down to get it off the shelf and it would go. Bargains do miracles.

If a company like Kimber, who relies on their strong/profitable revenue stream from pistols wants a rifle line, they need to take the custom approach there as well. They need to charge for it too. You can’t build a semi-custom rifle and maintain high quality on a production rifle retail strategy.

I’d be happy if they’d tell us, “We’re only making 4 different rifles in 4 different chamberings in 2022. We’re going to produce an 84M Classic in 308, an 84L Classic in 25-06, an 84M Montana in 223 and an 84L Montana in 270 - but we’re going to make them right. Twisted right, individually bedded, mag boxed accordingly. Every rifle will as close to as a semi-custom production rifle as we can make. Next year we’ll have the same rifles in different chamberings, so order as many of these as you can handle for this year. We’re only producing 1500 rifles in each offering. Everything from this point is limited production and we expect to earn your full support with the quality of our products!.”

The rifle would cost more, but people would pay for it. All manufacturers whine about niche markets but very few capitalize on it. Those niche market guys expect to pay more for what they want. And then you get the trickle down….those guys rave about their new Kimber’s and the bar has been set. The guys that bought their Kimber’s tell their buddies it’s THE only rifle to buy and before you know it the guy that knows nothing about rifles buys next year’s Kimber because it’s THE rifle and he tells his buddy.

It’s not always about price. You don’t have to produce to the masses to be profitable or successful. There will always be manufacturers that produce for the masses.

I’ve said it for years, but eventually one manufacturer will get it all right and they’ll change the game. A couple got close, but didn’t persevere.

Teal's last point is spot on. The hipsterization of rifles is a thing. It's the people who like clothes from the store brand new that are made to look like they came from the thrift store... but equated for old Winchesters and Husqvarnas. Google has tons of blogs about "how to restore a vintage rifle like your grandpa" and stuff like that. Those folks aren't touching an AR because it's "evil."

I don’t know how much of it is generational. Admittedly, I am half your age but the majority of big game rifles in my safe predate both of us or are from the heydays of your generation. The customs in my safe are chambered in “traditional” cartridges and most are built on commercial M98s.

I feel that as people come into the sport they start with what is on the market. Especially if there is little to no history with the classics. The first big game rifle I bought for myself twenty years ago was a Rem 700 BDL SS in 300 RUM I had delusional dreams of cross-valley kills on elk and black tails… I learned, grew up a little, adjusted my perspective on my ethical range limits, and sent it down the road. I began investing in rifles that I would be proud to pass to my sons and someday grandchildren. I know there is a need to develop new rifles and cartridges to bring or keep people to the sport but I personally believe we have been on a downhill slope for quite some time.

It's still possible for people from age 20 to 80 to have diverse interests in rifles. I've known young guys that like lever guns and old guys that like AR rifles.

I will say that one thing that has pushed me away from walnut in recent years is the fact that most wood seems really plain these days, not really worth an upcharge from a synthetic handle unless you are talking about a low-volume manufacturer like Cooper. The Kimber models with select-grade wood were some of the only ones that caught my eye and seemed worth the price.

“Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle”

I really thought the used market would get better for old Winchesters, Sakos, nice Mausers and the like when collectors from the golden era of nice blued/wood rifles either retired/died/estate sales. For true collector grade rifles, I didn't expect the prices to drop, but for a sound but well used old Pre-64, I really though we'd see some discounts. It seems there's enough buyers with taste similar to my own that the prices are just going higher and higher.

I will say I lost a lot of interest in new guns when minor aesthetic changes began happening. That barcode junk they were stamping on 700 receivers, the entire owner's manual on Ruger barrels, the six hundred digit serial number on Win 70's...

This forum is primarily populated by dedicated hardcore rifle loonies, the majority of which are old-timers who's earning power and new-rifle buying-days are past.

The gun stores are primarily filled with young guys eagerly splashing out the cash for the latest tacticool rig with colors like on their computer games.

Manufacturers go where the money is.

I got the rifles I wanted (Fieldcraft, Montana, and a couple heavy remington 700s) in 2016-2017 when they were on sale at Whittakers ( shout out to SAS). Strange feeling, but I don’t want any more now.

Where do you think young’s guys go to learn? They Google stuff and it takes them here. It’s our job to educate.

And I’m amazed weekly by the number of younger guys that don’t want tactical stuff. They come in asking for the exact same rifles being discussed in this thread. I have a young Marine begging me for a Remington 700 25-06. He has all the tactical stuff too, but prefers traditional rifles when hunting. The young crowd likes the tactical stuff, but it’s far from everything they want.

It’s amazing how many 25-30 year olds want something better than a disposable rifle.

Blame it on Wal-Mart.
Maybe.
Ever notice their attitude of, "you can buy what we want to sell"?



It's widespread now.
Go to a chain grocery store.
Try to buy a cut up chicken. Pik of the chik, it used to be called.
Mom bought whole ones and cut them, cheaper that way.
Now, a whole one is more expensive, and the only way to get a whole one in a package.
Instead, you buy pieces by the pack.

It's faster, easier, cheaper to run a line doing it the current way.

Try to buy a bone in pork loin.
Can't. Butcher told me they dont sell.
Bullschidt. Every store around here ran them on sale at New Years. They were
everywhere. People bought their years supply of p-chops at $.99/lb.

About 3 years ago it suddenly stopped.

Demand?
Fudge no!

$4/lb for the tenderloin
$2/lb for the loin
$3-5/lb for the baby back ribs.

Current trends make breaking it down a lot more profitable.
There are those idiots that don't understand the benefit of having bone
in their chops, they make it possible. But they arent the driving force.

All this to say it's not just demand, it's also about profit margins.
And a modern race to the bottom on low quality/high volume.

It will improve. We're in a very odd time where anything a company builds will sell, due to unprecedented demand and genuine shortages occurring at the same time. When companies again have to compete for buyers, prices will drop as well. Can you blame the OEM's for jacking up wholesale pricing, rather than letting the retailers get it all? A CEO wouldn't last long if he left that on the table.

As far as Kimber goes, the Montana was an anomaly from the start. How those idiots managed to get that beautiful Sirkis design from concept to production is beyond me. All they've discovered since is paint and muzzle threading. Maybe they'll be smart enough to make more if they can command a big price, but don't count on it.

Domestic manufacturers seem to pass on quality for price over and over, telling themselves it's a good plan. It merely cheapens the brand and allows Tikka and the like to grow. The new Springfield Waypoint will sell like crazy - order as many as you can, SAS. But something good from Remington? I'll believe it when I see it. The new company may get the message but I doubt it. While they try Tikka will sell thousands. Seekins will grow. Springfield will become a name in bolt actions. CZ will command a larger and larger part of the rimfire market. Vudoo will be backordered for a year. Builders of 700 footprint actions and custom barrels will be backed up for months. A few new aftermarket stock companies will break ground, and one or two will stick around. Remember when it was just McMIllan and few also-rans? Custom - or at least semi-custom - is the new way.

We live in the BEST if times for shooters, but it isn't a cookie cutter retail market anymore on the high end. Cheap plastic and blued steel will sell, at low margins and [soon] low price. Ironically Remington started it all with easily machined actions, plastic stocks, sights, and grip caps. Then someone else did it better. Then another. And another....

I think that the Weatherby Vanguards are still well made and not grossly over-priced.

I spent 7 years with an M16A1 assigned to me, so the whole tactical venue, particularly the pretend sniper/SPECOPS stuff, doesn't interest me, nor do suppressors. I actually had expected DJT to remove suppressors from the Class 3 list and make them available OTC, but that didn't happen.