Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Question for the .400 Whelen Crowd

As mentioned by HawkI, a .416-caliber neck expander works on necking up the noncylindrical brass like .35 Whelen R-P brass:





Velocity of that fireforming load (48.5 gr IMR-3031 with backwards 210-grainer) was a mere 1733 fps instrumental at 5 yards, 52 degrees F.
It could surely stand some hotting up to sharpen the shoulder better.

Below is Rusty McGee's use of .280 Remington R-P brass to make .400 Whelen by using Cream O' Wheat and pistol powder:
I don't do that and do not know his specifics of technique.

Drawing from Michael Petrov's book:





The original .400 Whelen of 1923 had shorter brass and the bullet was 0.409-caliber:

Brass, whether .35 Whelen necked up and then necked down
or the cylindrical Qual Cart with proper headstamp for .400 Whelen necked down,
both will benefit from annealing before fire forming.
Shoulders will be sharper with less pressure required to form:

Some amazing info shared so far. I am really enjoying all of it. Much appreciated!!!

Im thankful, to have avoided the bat-sht crazy, cream of wheat method. No time around here for reduntant, hobbyist bllsht at the reloading bench.

I assume that comment was directed at me since I detailed the COW process in my original postings of my first work with the 400 Whelen.

When I first had my rifle I had neither dies nor brass. I had the rifle, still in the white. Anxious to begin working up loads the only option I had to create cases was the COW method. I loaded 16.8 grains of Bullseye under enough COW to fill the case. I used LC Match brass. And yes, I jammed a crayon in the neck to hold the COW in place. It was quicker and easier than trying to plug it with paraffin.

Quality Cartridge was weeks to months out on back ordered 400 Whelen. I had dies as well as an expanding die ordered but if I wished to be shooting my new rifle, COW was my option. And I neck sized with a 41 magnum die, using a collar on the ram as a stop to control the depth of neck sizing. Shooters will do whatever is necessary sometimes to get a rifle shooting.

Since acquiring dies and a goodly amount of Qual Cart as well as some Norma 30-06 cylindrical I’ve not needed to use the COW method. But finding myself in a similar situation again I’d use COW again without hesitation.

LOL, Thanks MM,, and not trying to sound like a wayward soul out lost and headed to a boy george concert, but man when you get in the bush over there tracking game in the dust and searing heat you want to pull your shirt completely off, thorns be damned, something very special about Africa, you get pulled in and it never lets go.

Thanks Sir Ron, and yes on the Ruger, i'd buy that thing in a heartbeat were i looking, a 1.75-6 Leupold in the lowest Ruger rings possible with everything from 300gr TSX at 2400 fps to 400gr Woodleighs at 2255, what a cool banger it would make, nice and light too, 300gr TSX's at 2400 fps would make an easy ALL game rig to 300+ yards..................HMMM, never thought i'd have three 458 Win Mags either ; ]

Sir Jerry,
She is off the market.
I dug her out of the safe and I am in luv again.
Here is Ms. Meika Shilen-Ruger the .400 Whelen posing for some cheesecake this morning:













That is what a Shilen No. 5 sporter of .411-groove/.404-bore, 1:14" twist looks like at the muzzle
when cut to 23.6" length, for diameter of 0.725", with a hunter crown.
She is 7 pounds and 14 ounces naked and starving for ammo.
Her crown looks a little rough, might need a smoothing, but did not affect accuracy.
And then some functional fashion accessories: Banded front sight and sling stud.
That Ruger walnut stock is really quite a good compromise for iron sights and scope.
With barrel hardware and receiver sight added she will weigh a few ounces more.
She won't be under 8 pounds anymore, but when a girl matures she gains some weight in the right places.

.400 Whelen barrel hardware possibilities:

As for ammo to feed the poor starving girl, here are some ingredients for home cooking:







I never got a mould for .400 Whelen, since I acquired 200 cast bullets from Rusty McGee,
and have yet to shoot them.
I will fix that !

The Accurate Molds suggested by Mart look like the perfect picks.

41-320C, designed for .405 WCF friendliness:



41-400C, looks perfect for .400 Whelen:

Am I understanding that you are shooting the cast at the .413 diameter or resizing down to .410 or .411 from .413?

I have never resized before. Does it strip the gas check in the process? Will new properly sized gas checks be needed?

Also, for those looking to order QC brass, I just tried to order 5 bags (100 total from Grafs). At checkout they only had four so guessing now they have none. May be worth a call to QC to let them know there is some demand. I plan to call tomorrow myself.

Mart, no jab at anybody, just the process to .400 whelen brass. My 9.3 brass simply necked up, was enough bllsht for me. I cant stand reloading, been doing so for 20 years. The less time at the bench, the better.

Lol. Mainer, I’m with ya.

Dicking around with forming brass is fun, for a minute, then I want to buy some [bleep] and just shoot. I’m a fan of making schit simple.

Again, is there any reason not to run a 9.3x62 reamer into a .411 barrel and just use 9.3 brass with a .41 cal bullet shoved into the neck and lands? It honestly seems like the better route if the shoulder is sufficient. Any capacity difference would be next to nil.

Shoulder is I think .451 instead of .458.
7 thou gonna skunk up the works?

I’m wanting a big bore on an old school Mauser.
400 grains at 2200 is perfect for what I want. Just trying to get there as efficiently as possible.

As well, sorry if I missed it, but what is a 400 Whelen B?
Whelen Brown?

As I said, in the early stages there was no brass and no dies. COW and a 41 mag die was the route to shooting my rifle.

I'm on the other end of the spectrum from you though. I love reloading. And have been doing for 46 years. I have it quiet in my gun room. No radio, no TV. Just quiet. After my careers with all the ambient noise, escaping to the gun room helps me relax. Even though I'm retired and out of the noise, there's only so much TV noise I can take. It feels like an intrusion. Just the opposite of my wife. She has to have it on all day. I don't love all aspects of it. Trimming brass is a pain. Swaging primer pockets on 5.56 brass ain't the funnest thing in the world either.

The 400 Brown Whelen has a little less neck, (I think) and a .461 shoulder as opposed to the .458 shoulder of the 400 Whelen in its original form. The 30-06 is .441 at the shoulder.

Madmooner,
My prvi 9.3 brass measures .454 at the shoulder. Ive no use for .411 bullets because i like the .410 swift a-frames. I also use .410 pistol bullets for target practice.

Been up till midnight for the last three days handloading all sorts of pistol and rifle ammo. I hope to never touch this time sucking, garbage for at lesst another three years. 40-50 hours of handloading, should buy me three years.

quote MedRiver: "Am I understanding that you are shooting the cast at the .413 diameter or resizing down to .410 or .411 from .413?"

Cast bullets work best for accuracy and non-leading if they are +.002" (greater) in diameter than the rifle barrel groove diameter.
Jacketed bullets and monometals work best at groove diameter or maybe even - .002" (lesser) than groove diameter.
Certainly a .410" diameter jacketed or monometal bullet will do very well in a .411"-grooved barrel.

"I have never resized before. Does it strip the gas check in the process?"

No. The gas check is actually applied and crimped into place as the cast lead bullet is sized by a base-pusher sizing die,
like LEE or CH4D. Very simple and easy. Even a caveman can do it.

"Will new properly sized gas checks be needed?"

Maybe, depending on the mould.
The Hornady .416-caliber gas check may do.
I got some .41-caliber gas checks from Bullet Swaging Supply, Inc. in Louisianna.
I use those on my .397" cast bullets for my .395-caliber wildcats.
I do not have a 41-400C mould form Accurate Molds ... yet.

"Also, for those looking to order QC brass, I just tried to order 5 bags (100 total from Grafs). At checkout they only had four so guessing now they have none.
May be worth a call to QC to let them know there is some demand. I plan to call tomorrow myself."

That is good to know.

Thanks for clearing that up for me! Do you find the lead bullets spring back at all the way you have described jacketed bullets doing?

See the reamer drawings at about the middle of page one of this thread.

.400 Whelen = .400 Whelen "standard" as per Michael Petrov chamber casting of an original G&H rifle.
That is the A-Team .400 Whelen.
That chamber had changed significantly since the 1923 version by Townsend Whelen.

.400 Whelen-B = .400 Whelen-Berry NOT .400 Brown Whelen.
The .400 Whelen-B is the B-Team .400 Whelen, my design.
It uses same reloading dies but different chamber reamer than the A-Team.
Same shoulder diameter.

Differences:

A-Team chamber length minimum = 2.501", max brass 2.490" trim to 2.480".
B-Team chamber length minimum = 2.509", max brass 2.490" trim to 2.480"
B-Team has 0.008" greater room for brass length stretching on firing or could have 0.008" longer brass max, however you like it.

A-Team parallel-sided free-bore is 0.412" diameter and 0.188" long
B-Team parallel-sided free-bore is 0.412" diameter and 0.300" long

A-Team chamber neck taper is 0.004": Neck-2 (at mouth) = 0.437" and Neck-1 (at shoulder juncture) = 0.441"
B-Team chamber neck taper is 0.001": Neck-2 (at mouth) = 0.437" and Neck-1 (at shoulder juncture) = 0.438"

The B-Team chamber gives a 0.003" STRONGER SHOULDER.
It is silly to give up 0.003" of shoulder to neck-1 difference as in the A-Team chamber reamer.
Undeniable, but of little consequence.
Also of little consequence is the miniscule increase in free-bore length and a specified Maximum COL of 3.600" for the B-Team.

I promise to not mention the .400 Whelen-Berry again.
I am sticking with the A-Team on this thread henceforth.