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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,206 |
The 640s were built on 2 different actions, "strengthened" commercial pre-1898 style small ring Swedish actions and large ring 98 actions made by FN. The "strengthening" involved the elimination of the thumb slot in the left receiver rail. I have a few 640 in 6.5x55 and 8x57 built on both actions. I converted the SRs to cock on opening with the Dayton-Traister kit and replaced the triggers with Timney units. The LRs feel and function like any other commercial Mauser 98.
The 1600/HVA series action is basically an in-house hybrid of the 2 actions that Husqvarna had used in the 640 series. Frank DeHaas wrote a chapter on the Husqvarna HVAs in his bolt action rifles book, probably the best that I've read on the subject.
All of my rifles with HVA actions have mannlicher-style full length stocks and were purchase because I like most rifles with mannlicher-style full length stocks, not because of the actions that they are built on. For me, the Husqvarna mannlichers have the best balance of any regular production rifle with a mannlicher-style stock, making them a good choice for still-hunting. It seems that people either really like or really dislike mannlicher-style stocks, sometimes to the point of obsession.
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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Joined: Dec 2014
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BSA, you will note in my post that I used the term "tough" deliberately. If you look at an internet condensed tutorial 'on the properties of steel' you will see 'toughness' is an entirely different animal than 'hardness'. It is a very large leap to accuse Swedish steelmakers of improper hardening and/or embrittlement without evidence. To compare Husqvarna steel with Eddystones, low number Springfields is a hell of a stretch.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701
Campfire Regular
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The 640s were built on 2 different actions, "strengthened" commercial pre-1898 style small ring Swedish actions and large ring 98 actions made by FN. The "strengthening" involved the elimination of the thumb slot in the left receiver rail. I have a few 640 in 6.5x55 and 8x57 built on both actions. I converted the SRs to cock on opening with the Dayton-Traister kit and replaced the triggers with Timney units. The LRs feel and function like any other commercial Mauser 98.
The 1600/HVA series action is basically an in-house hybrid of the 2 actions that Husqvarna had used in the 640 series.
All of my rifles with HVA actions have mannlicher-style full length stocks and were purchase because I like most rifles with mannlicher-style full length stocks, not because of the actions that they are built on. For me, the Husqvarna mannlichers have the best balance of any regular production rifle with a mannlicher-style stock, making them a good choice for still-hunting. It seems that people either really like or really dislike mannlicher-style stocks, sometimes to the point of obsession. If you want to go getting technical, the 640 series was built on 4 different actions: The so called "strengthened" action, an FN Supplied Military pattern action, FN Supplied transitional commercial action, and the FN Commercial we are all familiar with.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,925
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 4,925 |
Objectively, what are the major differences, if any, in materials or production quality? (Interested in the comparison to pre64 because it seems more apples to apples with CRF.) Can't comment on materials or production, but I believe that all three are more than adequate. I see the differences being more in the design. The 640 is an original Mauser design. The Model 70 is an evolution away from that, and the 1640 is an even further evolution. I cannot say whether the Model 70 and 1640 are improvements as claimed. Okie John
If Montana had a standing army, a 270 Win with Federal Blue Box 130's would be the standard issue.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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My friends, family, coworkers all say I'm a gun nut, I'm the gun guy, the one with a finger on the pulse on whats out there in the gun world. It would blow their minds if they were around true rifle looneys like you guys.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,610
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 3,610 |
I like the M70 trigger and safety but, the 640 (m98) is a superior rifle IMHO. Now when it comes to the 1640, I have never shouldered a rifle that fits me so perfectly and they are tough!
Last edited by Joe; 01/21/22.
Shew me thy ways, O LORD: teach me thy paths. "there are few better cartridges on Earth than the 7 x 57mm Mauser" "the .30 Springfield is light, accurate, penetrating, and has surprising stopping power"
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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This is just speculation, based on an example of one. But a while back I cut a new crown and oversized the scope base holes for a guy on the receiver of a 640. Judging from the swarf, the difficulty of the drilling and tapping operation...I got the definite impression that the 640 is made with something notably tougher than the 4140 of the Winchesters, and I have worked on a lot of them over the years. I am used to using sulfur and lard oil on my HSS tools, nope, went to cobalt and Rapid Tap after the first bite. The swarf from the cut-off and crown was like a coil spring steel, a continuous chip. Unscientific, but gut feeling is the 640 uses steel tougher than I am used to. That or their heat treating process was different or inconsistent. Neither great, as that actually causes embrittlement. This was common in some early manufactured 1903 springfields and some eddystone manufactured m1917's. I always thought I'd like the 640, until I handled them and really looked them over. They seem to be great rifles that are comparable to the pre 64, but less refined like most mauser 98 derivatives. Basically an FN 98, which is a great platform for a build. The 640's I've handled were smooth, but a little clunky compared to the pre 64 model 70. Generally the 640 can be found for a great deal, if you can find one. They seem to be getting harder and harder to find. I wish I would have purchased the ones I have seen in the used rifle racks over the years. The most recent one I handled was only $400.00. A bargain, as compared to most pre 64 model 70's I've seen... Simpson's still has quite a few 640s, albeit mostly in larger chamberings. I'm working with a 1640 in 6.5 Swede at the moment, stock came in very good shape and I plan to glass bed as a preventative measure regardless of how it shoots. Is the cracking issue why some of the later 1640s come with the cross pin near the trigger area (I'm assuming it's not for aesthetics)?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,701
Campfire Regular
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Simpson's still has quite a few 640s, albeit mostly in larger chamberings. I'm working with a 1640 in 6.5 Swede at the moment, stock came in very good shape and I plan to glass bed as a preventative measure regardless of how it shoots. Is the cracking issue why some of the later 1640s come with the cross pin near the trigger area (I'm assuming it's not for aesthetics)?
Many of those with cross pins came with Sako triggers which required additional inletting, equaling less support.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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I've had a few pre-64 M70s, quite a few rifles based on the FN Commercial Mauser action and one Husqvarna 640. Funny thing, all the pre-64s are long gone and the FNs and Husky are still here. Guess I just liked them more. Paul B.
Last edited by PJGunner; 01/21/22.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them. MOLON LABE
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Simpson's still has quite a few 640s, albeit mostly in larger chamberings. I'm working with a 1640 in 6.5 Swede at the moment, stock came in very good shape and I plan to glass bed as a preventative measure regardless of how it shoots. Is the cracking issue why some of the later 1640s come with the cross pin near the trigger area (I'm assuming it's not for aesthetics)?
Many of those with cross pins came with Sako triggers which required additional inletting, equaling less support. Thanks, z. Are the Sako triggers considered an upgrade or just on par with the military trigger?
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,731
Campfire Outfitter
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I really like the 1640, have owned a few over the years. Their handling and weight savings plus lower cost compared to M70’s is why I prefer them.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Very much an upgrade. Steel, so a tad heavy but not obscenely so. Very adjustable. But, with some careful tuning you can get the non-adjustable to a nice state of tuning.
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Very much an upgrade. Steel, so a tad heavy but not obscenely so. Very adjustable. But, with some careful tuning you can get the non-adjustable to a nice state of tuning. Finally had a chance to take a look below the hood of my project 1640. At some point, someone did a little number on the upper edge of the inletting at the tang. The action is a very tight fit in the stock, so I'm guessing someone tried to get it out by pulling back on the barrel. Whatever little bit was hanging on finally gave way. Thankfully the piece is intact and easily epoxied back on... but also got me thinking, are there *any* after-market stocks for these? The webbing and other inletting beneath action looks great.
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 198
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Posts: 198 |
Anyone have tips or pictures for bedding 1640 actions? I’ve never done it before and I have two 1640’s that need to be done.
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 4,680
Campfire Tracker
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Anyone have tips or pictures for bedding 1640 actions? I’ve never done it before and I have two 1640’s that need to be done. Are you doing the whole action area or just the lug and tang? I'm planning to do the latter in the next couple weeks before floating the barrel then refinishing the stock.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 655
Campfire Regular
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Watching this….I have a 1600/1640 needs to be bedded it doesn’t shoot the best currently but I hat to give up without trying proper bedding first.
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I'm not sure why a 1640 would be any different than a typical Mauser clone with the lug also serving as a pillar for the front action screw? (Zastava, Mark x, etc.) I haven't done a Husky yet, but quite a few Zastavas. They're pretty straightforward.
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 198
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 198 |
Anyone have tips or pictures for bedding 1640 actions? I’ve never done it before and I have two 1640’s that need to be done. Are you doing the whole action area or just the lug and tang? I'm planning to do the latter in the next couple weeks before floating the barrel then refinishing the stock. I'm honestly not sure which to do.. Hoping someone can chime in.
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Joined: Dec 2019
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Anyone have tips or pictures for bedding 1640 actions? I’ve never done it before and I have two 1640’s that need to be done. Are you doing the whole action area or just the lug and tang? I'm planning to do the latter in the next couple weeks before floating the barrel then refinishing the stock. I'm honestly not sure which to do.. Hoping someone can chime in. I would do the lug and tang. For a hunting rifle I don't think the full length treatment is worth it. I've always liked the Miles Gilbert kit. Great directions, all materials included, epoxy isn't super runny. There's an older sticky on this forum that's a good primer and Larry Potterfield has a helpful video on YouTube. He does the full length, but it helps visualize where to relieve woodn, etc.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,188
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,188 |
Anyone have tips or pictures for bedding 1640 actions? I’ve never done it before and I have two 1640’s that need to be done. Are you doing the whole action area or just the lug and tang? I'm planning to do the latter in the next couple weeks before floating the barrel then refinishing the stock. I'm honestly not sure which to do.. Hoping someone can chime in. I had good luck on several just doing the recoil lug. After your done open up the hole where the action screw feeds through with a rat tail file. You want the recoil lug absorbing the force, not the screw, it should float in the hole. I usually only bed the lug, unless I am trying to prevent wood compression from a tight rear action screw. The Husky’s I’ve played with all had a metal pillar which the rear action screw goes through. This prevents over-compression, so no need to bed tang as long as this pillar/sleeve is bonded well to the wood. The rear of the action where it meets the stock is curved. Take a dremel with a sanding drum of similar diameter as the rear tang and open this up so there is a little gap between the tang and wood. This way when the rifle recoils and the thin magazine wells flex, the tang can move a little instead of being driven into the stock wrist. After you open this area up a little, seal it with Tru-oil, or something similar.
Last edited by TomM1; 01/23/22.
Stuck in airports, Terrorized Sent to meetings, Hypnotized Over-exposed, Commercialized Handle me with Care... -Traveling Wilbury's
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