Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

I think people who read this thread actually like big rifles and good handloads for them.

The Hammer 400 grainers arrived. As to looks, dang fine looking bullet.
After checking them out, I ordered more.

Sir Larry,
You are a smart man.
See if you agree with any of this:







There are some odd reflections on the shiny base edge/chamfer of the bullet below, no nicks.
The bottom of the bullet is as smooth as a baby's behind:

Sir Ron I approve of this message

Sir John,

Your approval is appreciated, buy a donkey,
and never kill the messenger unless the message is really, really bad, and he is the message.

90 % weight retention is claimed for the 402-gr Shock Hammer with shallow, 0.25"-diameter HP.
The 403-gr Shock Hammer with 3mm HP about as deep as the full nose projection should be interesting,
especially with that 0.419 BC G1 estimate.
The PDR bands do not hurt BC.
Also, residual oil on the bands: Leave it alone or degrease before loading ?
Shoot both ways and see if there is any difference.

Residual cutting oil in the HP is said to enhance a visible vapor trail on videos of small-bore kills with Hammer Bullets.

Sir Ron in my experience oil reduces friction and lowers velocity. Never tried cutting fluid.

Phil,

Ross won the 5th IPSC World Championship not the first (not exactly a local get together as it happened in South Africa) and was the last guy to win with an uncompensated pistol and with a 45 ACP.

Compensated 38 Supers carried more bullets and recoiled significantly less.

To down play winning a World Championship by saying he never did twice is a bit weird.

Robby Leatham, Brian Enos, or Mike Voight had nothing but respect for his shooting ability in a highly competative shooting sport.

I have seen Ross pull more than a few triggers and I have shot with the best "of today's sponsored shooters" (Dan Horner, Jerry Miculek, Kyle Lamb, The Army Marksmanship Unit) and know Ross was quite a bit better than a "good shot".

Sorry but I feel someone needed to set the record straight.

Sir Ron, as usual you are way ahead of me.
The chi-com Lyman caliper and probably chi-com Hornady bullet comparator that I used for measuring.

I measured:

Overall bullet length
Hammer at 1.441”
450 grain TSX at 1.516”

Base of bullet to ogive:
Hammer .799
450 grain TSX .789

Sir Larry,
Buy a donkey for the info, but are you off by about 0.100" over-shoot on that distance from base to ogive
on the Shock Hammer 3 mm HP "400"-grainer ?
I used a cheap digital/electronic scale for the weights.
But my caliper did agree with the 1.44" Steve Davis quoted.
No more than +/- 0.001" on length is good.
Remember, measure twice, crimp once.
From where I like to crimp, middle of first PDR trough/groove to base would be 0.660".
Maybe you meant 0.699" instead of 0.799" from base to ogive ?

I hope JohnBurns can get in touch with Ross and tell him we are praying for his soul.
As for Phil, well, I think we all need to chip in and buy him a Trump Glock
for his next 9mm brown bear kill in defense of his fishing clients.





A Ross Seyfried commemorative Colt 1911 .45 ACP would be neat.

.799 is what I continue to measure with the 12-45 insert. Which is supposedly for .458. Maybe it is a generic .45 ??

I see these inserts are “comparator”. Which may be just that and not precise actual diameter to length measurements.
I did not care for their .308/ 7.62 / 8mm insert. So I ordered a Sinclair stainless 8mm insert. I get significantly different length readings between the two.
Apparently “specific point” does not mean the actual diameter point.



Lock-N-Load® Bullet Comparator Inserts
Item #117
Bullet Comparator Inserts are designed for use with the Lock-N-Load® Bullet Comparator; it eliminates variables when measuring the over-all length of a bullet. Bullet length can vary a few thousandths due to material variation and tip finish.

The Lock-N-Load® Bullet Comparator Inserts allow the reloader to measure the bullet from the base to a specific point on the ogive, which has little variation, if any. This versatile system also provides the reloader with a much more consistent way to monitor the overall length of their reloads, allowing the reloader to build more precision into their handloads, that translates into better groups at the range and more meat in the freezer.

I concur with your in depth forensic analysis regarding the light machine oil on the outside and in nose cavity. Although light enough that it was not leaving a noticeable sign that I could detect when rotated in a paper towel. But, after doing this to several, I think I could sense a difference via the fingers, between then paper toweled and the fresh from the box.
Nose cavity oil was found by rolling a corner of the paper up small and tightly, and feeding into the lengthy hollow point and rotating. Maybe 3/32” of the tip showed discoloration.

I assume all their bullets arrive as such. But, I have only heard very good accuracy. So likely not problematic as to accuracy ?
Perhaps trace amounts of crisco at the most immediate point of impact expansion on critter ?
Not sure if sanitation is necessary. Perhaps soak in Dawn dishwashing water ??
Or just send them.

I'm shooting the 220 HH in my 35 Whelen no oil of any kind was detected on them

I hope JohnBurns can get in touch with Ross and tell him we are praying for his soul.
As for Phil, well, I think we all need to chip in and buy him a Trump Glock
for his next 9mm brown bear kill in defense of his fishing clients.





A Ross Seyfried commemorative Colt 1911 .45 ACP would be neat.

[/quote]
I would think Ross would love this thread and hope he shows up! A picture of his old Pachmayr 45 would be great as well. I remember a line from his writings about same that went something like "I never worried about the guys showing up with brand new guns, holsters or other gear. I worried about the guy who just spent $10,000 on Primers." Primers then were maybe $10 per thousand? As you can tell, that one stuck with me. Also Ross shooting style/position was very unique. He had the old Pachmayr pulled in close to his face, maybe 18 inches. It was a radical modification of the Weaver stance. It certainly worked for him. I tried it, liked it and shot a lot of 45 ball that way for a few years. It was very fast on target and between targets. You had to have wrists and forearms of steel to make it work and in my 20's I did. Once in a while when shooting fast multiples and wanting to whup a youngster, I still pull the old 45 back a bit and get in a hurry. I can only do it for little while nowadays.

Phil could kill three brown bears in defense of his fishing clients with a 15 round Glock. It would certainly Trump his Lady Smith's 6-7 he was carrying would it not?

I

I would think Ross would love this thread and hope he shows up! A picture of his old Pachmayr 45 would be great as well. I remember a line from his writings about same that went something like "I never worried about the guys showing up with brand new guns, holsters or other gear. I worried about the guy who just spent $10,000 on Primers." Primers then were maybe $10 per thousand? As you can tell, that one stuck with me. Also Ross shooting style/position was very unique. He had the old Pachmayr pulled in close to his face, maybe 18 inches. It was a radical modification of the Weaver stance. It certainly worked for him. I tried it, liked it and shot a lot of 45 ball that way for a few years. It was very fast on target and between targets. You had to have wrists and forearms of steel to make it work and in my 20's I did. Once in a while when shooting fast multiples and wanting to whup a youngster, I still pull the old 45 back a bit and get in a hurry. I can only do it for little while nowadays.

Phil could kill three brown bears in defense of his fishing clients with a 15 round Glock. It would certainly Trump his Lady Smith's 6-7 he was carrying would it not?

I
[/quote]

Or Phil could go to a Sig P365XL with a 15 round magazine

I would not have noticed any on these, if not for Riflecrank’s comment. It took a thorough and in-depth forensic investigation to confirm residual trace evidence.

I just got off the phone with Eric from Hammer Bullets. He called to see if I wanted bulk packaging or individual boxes for this second order.
Anyways, this discussion lead into a 400 grain.458 bullet
discussion. He is definitely interested in any feed back on these bullets. On game performance and chronograph load performance. He said good or bad experiences. Honest feedback to see if anything needed to be improved. I will say their customer service and shipping is refreshingly top notch.

He also added, he was shipping some to Australia to be tested on Buffalo. Is the recipient among us ?? I am most interested in how these perform on those big beasts.

Sir Larry,

Good work. Good to hear the 400-gr Shock Hammers are going to Oz for bovines.
I will surely be using them on anything and everything. One planet, one bullet.

Thanks for your fancy measurement from base to start of ogive.
I would say you are within +/- 0.001" on that too.
I had not even thought to try measuring that.
I have no gadgets to get a good measure, just eyeball, caliper, and slug&rod methods with dummies into the lands.
Hardly a worry with the .458 WinMag.











Shipping the bullets with remnant cutting oil on them is a relatively new thing at Hammer Bullets.
The first bullets I got from them for .458WinMag, .44-40, and 9mm (thinking brown bear pocket pistol with that last one)
had no oil on them.
They seem to be a different color, more orange but still shiny.
The oil coating on the new bullets is good for shipping and storage, will prevent the color change.
This is not to say that the old orange ones are tarnished.
Just that the new oil-coated ones probably still have the same color as just off the machines.
I will degrease them before loading, by the batch.

The major diameter of the PDR bands is .458" at the summits, and about 0.448" in the valleys, approximately.
They will have a nice, low start pressure without needing oil to grease the skids and lower velocity and pressure,
as Sir John said.
The .458 WinMag is not one of those over-bore, high-pressure, tight-throated rat calibers that might benefit from oiled bullets.

Length of ogive ahead of full bearing diameter is 1.440" - 0.799" = 0.641".
Being well below half the BOL for that measure bodes well for accuracy, me thinks.

That full-bearing segment ahead of the first PDR trough will make a good grabber to start the bullet spinning at the end of the long-leade-only throat.
Pressure and fouling relief by PDR bands.
Seems to be the better mousetrap has been designed again by Hammer Bullets.

Sir Ron, in my experience Hammer bullets are very accurate with about most any load. They aren't temperamental

I am still not sold on the Hornady comparator insert. As to its actual diameter. It is definitely a constant point to measure from, and to compare different bullet lengths. As with the comparison of the 450 grain TSX to the Hammer 400(sounds like a Mopar motor). I will see if I can order a Sinclair stainless.458 insert. The stainless also is not grabbing / sticky like the aluminum.

The box that I opened, I would never noticed the machine oil if you had not mentioned it. I literally had to search for signs of it. But, it is there.

I think the Aussie Buffalo will be a true test of the bullet performance. I have seriously high hopes for its performance.