Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Steve at Hammer Bullets said the oil will not cause any problems so do not concern your self. I will be going on my first safari with the Hammer boys in April so we will be talking a lot about 458 bullets and later this year I will be working with the 400 and 450 loads, to cold now, the other day Brian told e there was a guy up in Alaska going to be testing on a brown bear so will be interesting to see what happens.next year I will go back and tackle a cape buffalo with Hammers. the trip we are taking in April will only be shot with Hammers for plains game. good shooting

Or Phil could go to a Sig P365XL with a 15 round magazine

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As much as I do love my old S&W 39's, the Sig 320 and 365 are my favorite 9mm handguns

No repentance from Ross, no apology from Phil.
OK.

https://hammerbullets.boards.net/thread/2117/400g-shock-hammer-coming-soon?page=6&scrollTo=27287

So, build a better bullet and they will come, like "Field of Dreams."
No need to thank me folks, I just gave them the idea based on the appearance of their 270-gr/.375-cal "Dangerous Game" Shock Hammer,
scaled up to .458-caliber and about 400-grains, with a 3mm hollow point, which they had found reliable,
and I bought a quantity sufficient to get them interested.
Keep buying, guys, keep the bullet alive, please.
Is everybody getting about 403.1 grains +/- 0.3 grains for the actual weight ?
That is after you shake or blow the oil out of hollow points, of course.

The Hammer Bullets are an improvement on the GSC HV and Barnes TSX .458/400-gr bullets specifically
and in all offerings in general.

I like the fact that the Hammer bullets are shipped in oil, a preservative to prevent tarnishing in storage.
But I'll be damned if I am not going to at least shake the oil out of the hollow points and wipe the bullets with a paper towel
before I load them into the brass case atop some powder.

I think Hammer Bullets will probably be making more than just that first run of the 3mm HP 400-grainer/.458-cal.

And furthermore, "The Walking Dead" reminds me of "The Walking Democrat Voters."

Damn, you showed tenacity sticking with that conversation on the link.

Sir Larry,
This Indian persevered with the endeavor,
despite the ankle biting, and succeeded.
Now we must let them think it was all their idea.
They have sent some of the bullets to South Africa as well as
Australia.

What weight do you measure for the new bullet ?

403.1 grain
2nd one = about 401.45 grain—guessing on the extra .05
I will weigh more later tonight.

I weighed the bullets as they came out of another box I opened, 25 bullets,
some with oil filling the hollow point to within a few millimeters of the meplat
some with no visible oil at all.
Yes, highly variable oiling of bullet hollowpoints.
24 of the 25 were in the range of 402.9 grains to 404.0 grains, with oil.
1 bullet was an outlier: 400.2 grains

There was no discernible difference in the one aberrant bullet that I could measure.
There was no oil in the hollow point.
I would have to guess it was some sort of metallurgical flaw causing the one light bullet.
I sprayed the one wild bullet with Gun Blaster degreaser/cleaner.
Weight was unchanged, stayed 400.2 grains.

By grasping one of the oil-filled bullets by its base and slinging or flicking the hollowpoint at my thigh as I sit,
it leaves a fine-line trail of oil several cm long across the fabric on my thigh.
Black sweatpants show the slung oil as a dark line on the fabric
Re-weighing before and after flicking bullets shows that they can come with up to 0.6 grains of oil in the hollow point.

Above weights on same cheap digital/electronic scale by me.
I am going to have to break out my magnetic damping mechanical scale and weigh another box of 25.
Watching for anymore outliers, of course.

The first sample of 10 bullets weighed, after being flicked and wiped of oil, averaged 403.1 grains +/- 0.3 grains,
with no outliers in that sample !

Okay, after calibrating scale to 400 grain test weights.
I re-weighed the original 2, and 3 others.

400.6
400.7
400.7
401.3
403.1

Those were from one of the boxes from the first shipment. The second shipment is to arrive Monday / tomorrow at some point.

FWIW Gentlemen, from an accuracy/hunting standpoint, i was able to fire a 5 shot 10 inch group at 1100 yards with my 50-90 Sharps rifle with Hoke tang sight and Distant Thunder front sight, those 720 grain paper patch bullets from that casting session ran the needle on my RCBS 10-10 scale to + or - 1 grain, so two grains max difference total bullet weight still allowed me to easily hit the vitals on a bull elk, moose or buffalo at that extended range, i shot prone with bag under barrel and rifle against shoulder, perfect conditions, no wind and overcast skies.

Guys like Ranch13, Kurt71, Kenny Wasserburger and maybe even Saint Bagwell match shooting may not allow +/- 1 grain bullet weights to pass a casting session inspection, particularity in the 500/560gr weight class of bullets i wont allow it in 40 and 45 cal bullets, but plenty good enough in the Big 50 banging around on farm steel, i haven't and wont weigh the 450gr TSX's Sir Ron gave me, for 300 yard max hunting range it simply wont matter.

Absolutely agree.
It for sure will have Zero effect on my intended “long range” of 250 yards.

I have not been curious enough to weigh my 350 grain TSX 416’s. I would think there would be more variations than the Hammers. But, they group impressively at 100 meters out of 3 different rifles and several various boxes and lot numbers.

Lol, I almost weighed some 458, 450 TSX. Because I had an open box of them by the scales. But, was not that curious.

Sir Metford pioneered the 1000-yard muzzleloader, and in the 1860s his rifle was the best available at 2000 yards too.

From page 49 of this thread:

A quote from William Ellis Metford is also included:

"I recommend weighing powder to a quarter of a grain. I find from careful experimentation that at 1,000 yards,
95 grains will throw the bullet nearly 4.5 minutes of angle higher than 90 grains and about 2.25 minutes of angle at 500 yards.
This will equal 9 inches per grain at 1000 yards, and 2.25 inches at 500 yards.
No flask will with any certainty throw its charges nearer than 1.5 grains.
Many first-rate shots have thought they could throw charges to much less, but in every case where I have tested this belief
I have found a variation of at least 1.5 grains before 12 charges were given."

However, William Ellis Metford only obsessed and compulsed when it mattered:

"The bullets supplied for my rifle are all weighed, and in any given box are within five grains of each other as the limit of difference.
I find this is amply correct enough.
Unlike the powder item, there happens to be, for moderate differences in weight of bullets,
a compensating action, which exhibits itself especially at the long ranges."

His bullets were usually no more than 570 grains in the .45-ish bores.
5 grains is about 0.88% of a 570-grain weight.
Sir Metford tolerated +/- 0.88% variation in bullet weight for 1000-yard shooting.
This translates to +/- 3.52 grains in a 400-gr bullet,
yes, overkill for 300-yard accuracy.

I surely weighed some TSX bullets in the past, will do it again if I can't find the old notecards,
when I weigh another box of the Hammer Shocks.

I have decided.
Leaving oil on the monometal copper bullets is a dumbadze thing to do with a serious rifle.
That means one is not the sharpest tool in the toolbox if one does that.
Just for starters, it messes with the friction grip of the case neck on the bullet.
Any more bullets with oil that I weigh will be cleaned first.
Hammer has mentioned an ultrasonic bath they use, hit or miss depending on which way the wind is blowing?
I have a little Lyman-made parts cleaner thingy ...

Inspired by Sirs Larry and Jerry, I have recycled and old blurb by adding a 10-bullet sample weighing for each TSX.
450-gr TSX from the same lot that Sir Jerry's Huntin'Bullets comes from
and 500-gr TSX of the longer variety:



10 bullets is a small sample, as I found with the Hammers, a sample of 50 is more telling.

Now the great break through, OIL-FREE SHOCK HAMMERS:





Weights measured with a brand new mechanical balance beam scale agreed well with the digital/electronic scale.
For example, two bullets that weighed exactly 400.0 gr each on the electronic scale weighed
399.9 gr for one and 400.1 g for the other on the balance beam.
Same two-bullet average for the two scales: 400 grains.
Those were the lightest two of the "400-gr" Shock Hammers encountered in 50 bullets.
Both came from the second 25-count box of bullets.

The balance beam is more laborious but the digital is close enough for sorting
"light" bullets from "right" bullets, in a bi-modal distribution.

Sir Larry,
Poking around looking for the Lyman ultrasonic cleaner (which I did not find)
I found a Hornady LOCK-N-LOAD comparator set that I never opened the package on.
Will have to learn how to use that.

Comment at the Hammer site, by me, stirring the pot:

I think it should be renamed the "403."
Don't change a thing except figure out why about 10% of the bullets cluster tightly near 400 grains,
and about 90% cluster tightly around 403 grains.

Of course, inside of 300 yards huntin'ranges
whether 400 grains or 403 grains, no bullet sorting is required.
Just sort out the dead meat.

But beyond 1000 yards at the target matches, sorting bullets might not hurt.

Those Barnes are very consistent weight wise. I am somewhat surprised.
The Dawn is definitely a good non-industrial oil remover.
I received the 2nd shipment of the 400’s today / late this evening.

The 400 Hammer bullet is the ultimate 458 bullet. Every one should give thanks to Sir Ron for tha availability of the 400 Hammer bullet

Micheal is going to test the 400 grain Hammer in his media

Jwp475,
Do you know the composition of Michaels Media?

Being inexpert at testing bullets in Media, our bullet testing team used a suspended 5/8 inch steel plate at 50 yards to test our .458 Elephant bullets to be sure they would penetrate into the brain on frontal brain shots and terminate the encounter in a rapid and final manner.(DRT). The bullets were fired at about 2,000 FPS MV and the only ones that shot through the plate were the 430 grain Brass Punch bullet and the 450 grain copper North Fork FPS bullet and both shot through leaving a daylight hole. Encouraged by this, our shooter in Africa reported one shot kills from 20 yards with no exceptions. Naturally, these bullets shot through all other DG game too, taking the fight out of several Cape Buff with one shot with no muzzle velocities over 2150 fps.

I suspect Michael will think our media somewhat crude, but we did find it to be practical and effective.

As I discovered at the B&M Forum, Sir Larry and Sir John are working on getting Michael McCourry
at the McCourry Institute of Ballistics in South Carolina
to test the 400-g/.458-cal/3mm-HP Shock Hammer for penetration in artificial media.
With the vast amount of testing previously done by Doc M at MIB for comparison,
that will be useful information.

Buy a donkey to those MEN OF THE SQUARE TABLE.
That was mighty Knight of them.

Sir Charles,

The MIB test media of the past has been a form of wetpack, news print and magazines and such,
sometimes with concrete blocks or bones and whatever thrown in,
50-yard indoor laboratory with instruments capable of pressure testing, etc.
Will get updated.