Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Question for the .400 Whelen Crowd

A faster twist will keep the heavy weight monos straight. But I don't see the need since dropped down in weight gives plenty of penetration.

Yep, bet it'd take an aftermarket barrel, don't know if factory twists in the calibers mentioned will buck the load.

G500, agreed. The heavy mono's seem to be made to satisfy the old guards who just CAN'T fathom anything but heavy for caliber bullets, because that's what's worked for over 100 years, and they gloss over the fact that mono's are a different beast. In fact THOR bullets does this, they offer the 300gr bullet because shooters areso dead set on old ideas they refuse to change, even though his 250's perform better all around. The twist rate abd velocity can become a giant issue if hunters flat refuse to accept that modern bullets behave differently and you need to adapt.

Also agreed if you need more than 250 yards regularly, the 300 TSX is a 1 stop shop. I just have a feeling that 360 NF is the goldilocks bullet that can do a buff at 50 yards and an elk at up to 375-400ish (if your gun shoots them *)

Yep, that 360-gr/.411" North Fork SP would be JUST RIGHT in a .400 Whelen-Petrov.
Third from right below:

That 350-gr Hornady SP makes 3"-diameter exit holes in deer ribs at 100 and 150 yards and explodes the hearts along the way,
at a little over 2300 fps MV.
Plumb gentlemanly killer.

With You and Riflecrank on all that, be sweet if Hammer ever puts out a 350 grain .410/.411" slug, drive it hard and fast and see where it lands, also be nice to know what Hammers minimum expansion velocity window is.

might be worth asking them what they'd need for a group test order. I mean we'd probably get 4-5 guys from this thread alone willing to commit. I'm part of a few Facebook groups as well with a handful of 400W shooters I could ask

I’m in on that

My cast bullets showed up. Once I got a little lube in the bushing it was no trouble getting them through the .413 NOE bushing with my Rockchucker. The .412 bushing got them to .413. Probably could have went straight to the .412.

Looks like a great bullet that should knock the snot out of some pigs.

Having asked in August 2021 for my dream bullet from Hammer (400-gr/.458-cal Shock Hammer) it was realized in January 2022.
I have much work to do with that bullet.
Sumbuddy else's turn to champion a .411-caliber at Hammer Bullets.
My bullet budget is busted for a while.

Until I recover, will work for food.
gunner500 sent me a package of delicious creations from his Wife's kitchen,
arrived Friday along with some bullets he wanted "drawn down" from .416" to .411".
Saturday I listened to the basketball game on the radio while pulling the press handle,
(Kentucky beat 5th-ranked Kansas by 80 to 62 at Kansas, yay)
then I worked on my TV viewing while polishing the sized bullets and packaging them for return to Sir Jerry.
("Life Below Zero" and "The Walking Dead" are my cultural literacy project,
catching up on all those years I missed while working 20-hour days before retiring, thank God.)



When finished, there were only 174 bullets, but Sir Jerry admitted he had "coon fingered" one of the bullets
just before mailing them to me and he forgot to put it back in the package.
He has a "before" bullet to compare to 174 "after" bullets:

Reference material:



BBMT provided measurements from samples of one bullet each of the two above.

400-gr/.411" ex-Nosler Partition: BOL = 1.485", seat depth with crimp at cannelure =0.725", COL with 2.490" brass = 3.250"

350-gr/.410" Swift A-Frame: BOL = 1.285", seat depth with crimp at cannelure = 0.575", COL with 2.490" brass = 3.200"



A 400-gr/.410" Swift A-Frame would be even more sure to obturate to .411" groove, since sectional density drives expansion for any given velocity.
It is much better to shoot a jacketed or monometal bullet that is .001" to .002" smaller than groove diameter
than to shoot one that is 0.001" or more over groove diameter.
The 0.423" North Fork bullets worked well in my 0.425"-grooved McGowen barrels, sub-MOA capable.
A tighter fit might have increased velocity AND pressure with monometal copper/jacketed bullets.
Not like the smokeless loads with lead bullets that are not at their best until 0.002" greater than groove diameter,
for any reasonable rifle bullet diameter, of course, like .400-cal and up.
That is where reasonable starts.

Probably so. Lead bullets are easily done in a single stage reloading press.
A draw down of 0.003" is never criticized in bullet sizing lore that I have known.
That is the acceptable limit according to most know-it-alls.
I too have found that the hard alloy lead bullets do spring back to about 0.001" bigger than the sizer.
Soft enough lead alloy sizes true to sizer diameter.

The springback of all the jacketed and monometal copper bullets I have tried is 0.002".
Worked that way again on Sir Jerry's bullets.
I am so grateful for the food he sent I will slip another 26 of the 450-gr/.458-cal TSX into the empty slots in the bullet box.

And furthermore, "The Walking Dead" reminds me of "The Walking Democrat Voters."

^^^^^^^^^^^Yep^^^^^^^^^^^^

GREAT! many Thanks for the tidy and quick work Sir Ron, and the new bullet boxes, beats my zip-loc all to hades, man i appreciate it greatly! also want to Thank You for the extra 450gr TSX's, the 400gr Hammers you've worked so hard for may be well worth the effort, in the meantime, i'm more than sure the 450gr TSX will easily pull any slack and handle any heavy lifting fired from my 458 WM+ at 2450+ fps.

LOL, little Wife says you're most welcome on the grub from her kitchen, she says there's more where that came from ; ]

You may now know when i say it's a daily struggle for me not to weigh 900 LBS i'm not slingin' bovine fertilizer!

Thanks again Sir.

Sir Jerry,

I cannot in good faith get you addicted to the 400-gr Hammer Shock by supplying them to you.
I do hope you will use the additional 450-gr TSX "fix" that is on its way to you
to help wean yourself off that bullet after you have killed some game with it.

Then you may consider the 400-gr Hammer Shock for future use in your .458 WM+
at COL up to 3.580" and MV in the 2500 to 2600 fps range, whatever your rifle likes best.
But remember to purchase them responsibly and use them wisely.
One planet, one bullet.
Of course you could say the same thing about the 450-gr/.458-cal TSX.
But I have a vested interest in the 400-gr Shock Hammer's success.
I am sure that you understand.

Now I wonder how CFE-223 will do with the 400-gr/.411-cal eX-Nosler Partition
in the .400 Whelen-Petrov, whenever you can get around to it.

RC,

So are you saying I'd be better off trying the .408 Hammer bullets than the .411 TSX or 300/360 NF's in my .410 bbl? Or is it just more a matter of loading up in smaller powder charge steps and paying very close attention to what my brass and chrono are telling me?

Inquiry sent into Hammer, we'll see where it goes

Yes and yes.
The .400 Brown Whelen boys railed against .412-caliber jacketed bullets in their .411 barrels, noting pressure fears.
but they were not very sophisticated since they were messing with the .400 Brown Whelen anyway.

The SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum has a minimum groove diameter of .458" with .450" bore/land diameter.
But a .459" maximum bullet diameter is allowed for jacketed bullets by SAAMI.
The .458 WinMag does have "free-bore" protection, but you can certainly work up carefully with .411" in your .410" groove.
What usually occurs in reality is that the factory .458 WinMag has a .459" groove diameter (in spec for minimum of .458")
and gets used with .458"-diameter bullets, in spec for maximum bullet diameter allowed of 0.459".

I noticed Hammer has a 296-gr/.408-cal. "Pittman Hammer" (and 2 lighter weights also) meant for use in muzzleloaders.
Maybe that is for sabot in a .45-or .50-cal ?
It has a high BC supposedly, very pointy with 1.5mm HP.
Might work in a .410/400 Whelen with fast powder and high velocity.

But you are blessed in having the 350-gr/.410-cal Swift A-Frame perfect for your rifle.

yea the A-Frame would be great if they were actually in stock anywhere haha.

Hammer emailed back, they don't think the .408 will seal

Well, of course they would say that about their .408 bullets in .410 grooves.
But those PDR bands are pretty slick and minimal drag and less likely to grab in a .410 groove
than would be a grabbier bullet with greater bearing surface and start pressure.

My Douglas .410"-grooved barrel that has a .400" bore/land diameter, 1:14" twist, stainless,
is on a CZ 550 Magnum .410/404 Jeffery wildcat.
I could try those .408" Hammers in that.
Such a tight bore might make it work with loose grooves.

I also have a .408 Chey-Tac sporter on an MRC M1999 action with Dan Lilja fluted 1:13" twist
and a .408/.338 Lapua on a BRNO ZKK-602 with McGowen 1:13" twists.
Both of those are .408"-grooved/.400"-bore/land diameter.
Come to think of it, Chey-Tac used to sell a pointy 300-gr/.408-cal monometal copper solid bullet.
They called it the "Battlefield Dominator" bullet (anti-personnel) and paired it with the 400-grainer for anti-materiel.

The 296-gr/.408-cal/1.5mm-HP Pittman Hammer might be a "Gamefield Dominator" in any of the above rifles.

For peace of mind, push a 300-gr/.411-cal TSX through a .408" sizer and I bet it would spring back to .410" diameter and stay there.
I'll swap you those for any .408-cal bullet leftovers you try and find unsatisfactory.
Bullet for bullet,
or will work for food.