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And folks wonder why we keep on walking point for the truth of the 458WM


From this article:
Top 5 Dangerous Game Cartridges
by PHILIP MASSARO posted on February 1, 2022
NEWS, GUNS & GEAR, AMMO
https://www.americanhunter.org/content/top-5-dangerous-game-cartridges/

He listed 5 in "no particular" order



2. .458 Lott
Among dangerous game cartridges, John Rigby’s .450 Nitro Express set the benchmark at the end of the 19th century, with a ballistic formula that has relied upon since its release. The .450 NE used a 480-grain bullet of .458-inch-diameter at a muzzle velocity of 2150 fps for just under 5,000 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy; the American equivalent was the .458 Winchester Magnum, which—on paper—pushed a 510-grain bullet to 2150 fps, but didn’t quite get there at first. A short case and compressed powder loads made for some issues early on, and hunters sought a means to rectify the problem. Jack Lott saw a quick fix: instead of the 2.500-inch belted case Winchester used, he’d employ the full-length 2.85-inch case—same as the .375 H&H upon which it was based—to give room for additional powder capacity. Though the .458 Win. Mag. is a much better cartridge today than it was upon its release, I still prefer the .458 Lott design, as it will give a light bump in muzzle velocity without crushing the shoulder, and for the handloader it will be a piece of cake to achieve 2150 or 2200 fps with the big 500-grain slugs. If you’re a fan of the .458-inch-diameter cartridges, the .458 Lott is a great choice.

The Watts is the full length 375 case the Lott is slightly shorter

Ya, those damn 458 lott shoulders have confounded thousands of hand loaders millions of times! fillup massengill is an uninformed douche!

I read & re-read that post a few times. Isn’t he referring to the shooter’s shoulder ? As in slight velocity increase without kicking the shat out of your shoulder ? At first reading it, I thought case shoulder. That was a head scratcher.
I am assuming he was referring to off the shelf factory ammo.

Lord i hope so, but mentioning compressed powder in the 458 WM had me thinking otherwise, gun writers are usually much more plain and don't leave open ended statements, my douche label still sticks, i'm sure Sir Ron will be along shortly to show him the error of his ways and set him straight ; ]

Lmao 😂—

Been shooting compressed loads without issues for decades

I am sure the Author meant felt recoil. That is something people say when they don't have a provable point. Just misdirection for the lazy and uninclined to do their research and thinking for themselves. I get the burden of writing for the masses but I am always inclined towards the Truth and letting the willing hear.

Most brilliant comment on that February 1, 2022 DGR cartridge ranking:

" fillup massengill is an uninformed douche! "

Nothing left for me to say to top that.
The Lottites are the ones beating their dead horse.
And that Lottite can't even keep his brass length correct.
Most likely he is a Democrat like the saboteurs at the Winchester ammo factory of yore.

Agree about the steel penetration being a useful test NOT for the "400-gr"/.458 Shock Hammer.

Hammer Bullets is now faced with a systemic problem that could affect all their bullets.
Whomever is supplying the copper rods being used has some spectrographic analysis to do.
That is reportedly the only way to get to the bottom of it.
400-gr samples and 403-gr samples need to be analyzed for the metallurgical variation.
With +/- 0.00005" tolerance on the diameters and similar on the length measures of bullets, what else is left ?

For now, I have fewer 400-grain varmint bullets than 403-grain big game bullets.
Not a bad problem for me, I can sort the bullets before sorting the dead meat.
Troubling for the copper rod supply.

To be fair on the Barnes TSX bullets, might need to measure 50 each of those too, instead of just 10 each.
Those bullets come from huge rolls of copper wire, and that wire must be pretty consistent.
And the hammer forging and Dremel-tooling of the bullets ain't bad either.

You bet, me too Big Buddy, but ms spring rains scented massengill vag wash is beating a 55 year old dead horse with the powders of the day compression deal in the 458 WM.

LOL!

You crack me up Gunner. I’m laughing my butt off here!

LOL, it's really all in good fun big B, just like my old buddy with a Ruger #1 458 Lott, i told him if he wanted to shoot my 458 WM+ load with the 500gr Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer solid at 2358 fps stop by the feed store and bring out a 3 foot piece of 7/16ths all thread so we can beat the 458 WM+ case back outta his rifle with a 3lb shop sledge......................yo crazy muh-fugga!!!!!, he hasn't shown up yet.

Sir Jerry,

Buy a donkey for the levity.
You need an agent to get you some standup comedy bookings, maybe a 10-program contract with Netflix.
Dave Chappelle had a nice gig there. We need someone to step up for another round.

Wife liked that homemade apple butter best of all.
Need recipe for that and the King Arthur Sour Dough.
That would make some great lady fingers for the next meeting of The Square Table.

And regarding the Shock Hammer bullet, Steve Davis said they have a handle on it.
Problem affects only the largest size bar stock they use.
So I got two new bullets.
A 400-grainer and a 403-grainer with 3mm hollow point.

If the 400-gr BC is 0.419, then the 403-gr BC is 0.422 G1.
Always look on the bright side.

Yes, I'd read that online and almost responded. But the real point of it all is that the "Truth" is still compromised by articles like that!

So WE must continue telling the "Truth" wherever and whenever we can! That's why I tell it often in my blogs as well as in person to any who will listen!
Somehow this needs to be told in some of the more popular hunting/shooting mags. That should be our next push to get Sir Ron to do a write-up for one or more of them.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I'd like to Book Sir Jerry, for a Comedy hour!
As his Agent, I'll donate all proceeds to the Knights of the Square Table,
to Help Promote Sir Ron's Write ups!
Here Here for the Push!

Sir,
Tony

All the source data work is done. Maybe Mule Deer could be helpful in getting placement for Ron as well as some suggestions on length tricks of the trade stuff.

Been shooting compressed loads without issues for decades!!!!

Stating the obvious for big bore loaders?

We at the 458wm table have learned to recognize the terms used as a knife against the 458wm. One of those is “compressed loads.” Not only are compressed loads not a problem but the Mighty 458wm does not and did not need loads compressed to reach 2150 with a 500 grain bullet. Simply not true. We stand united against “simply not true,”
Best regards

All Y'all Knights:
I will probably have to self publish.
Trying to decide on whether 200 pages or 800 pages will be needed.
Some original artwork will be required also, like cartoons of Lottites and realistic paintings related to the .458 Winchester Magnum.
Need a little bit more load data with the 400-gr Shock Hammer.

What I am being told over at the Hammer Bullets site, is that they will replace my 400-grainers with the 403-grainers.
Steve Davis said the light bullet comes from the off-spec copper bar stock.
And I said:

I shall weigh all my bullets !
Find enough 400-grainers and 403-grainers for a shoot-off out to 600 yards.
Might take that to "shoot the diff."
Being very familiar with the .458 WinMag handloading in my rifles,
I will make it simple.
MY starting load is 80.0 grains of AA-2230 with the 3mm HP Shock Hammer at 3.38" COL.
That is a load that any factory .458 WinMag can handle,
even if it exceeds SAAMI COL by 0.040" !

Western Powders data in a 24"-barreled (1:14" twist) .458 WinMag:
Barnes Old Original SSSP (0.049" jacket)
Win case
F-215 primer
COL 3.140"
80.0 grains AA-2230 >>> 2457 fps <<< 53,690 psi
80.0 grains AA-2460 >>> 2452 fps <<< 52,746 psi

I expect velocity about +2500 fps in my 25" (1:14" twist) Shilen barrel.
The fancy stuff with COL 3.48" and 3.58" and higher velocity will wait until later.

I am loading ammo tonight and ice and snow are easing up here now.
To the outdoor range with the Shock Hammers soon.