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I have a few pounds of vintage H-4831; it came in paper bags back in the '60's.
When the paper bags started breaking down, I transfered the powder to empty powder containers, appropriately labeled with a Magic Marker.
It smells good, no brown dust, shoots great. I think it may be a tad slower than current H-4831.
DF at one time it could be bought in a metal big cannister holding like 50pounds, pull down powder when hodgden started out. I have smelled that WWII powder and if stored properly it still works. When I was a teenager in the late 50's, Dad bought one of those 50 pound boxes. We shot it up in about 2 years and he then bought another. It was wonderful to have that much powder, and it was priced for a song, even at that time!
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I just reread this thread. Something I don't believe anyone mentioned is that Pete Brown was unique in that he commonly gave his shooting results at 200 yards. Most commonly to this day everyone else did and does report results at 100 yards. Today he would probably be revered for this practice.
Jim
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I daresay John Barsness has done a pretty fair job of keeping literacy in the genre of gun writing- much in the spirit of JOC in my opinion. Perhaps that is why I enjoy reading his stuff... +1 DF Have to agree. The GG books will be looked at as heirlooms in the next generation. We’re pretty lucky that MD puts up with us. Edited to add that being born in the early 70’s I was late to the party but by then my Father & uncles had most of these books spread all over the ranch house. I most appreciated O’Connor, Hagel & under published Milek. Pretty much still have every book they each authored in my home library as I’m sure most of you guys too. I honestly haven’t read even a single sentence that Elmer Kieth ever wrote - nobody used rifles like he suggested where I grew up so I moved on. Probably should round out my knowledge base before I offer up an opinion on EK.
Last edited by PintsofCraft; 02/23/22.
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I read both O'Connor and Keith as a young man, found both to be knowledgeable authorities regarding what they wrote about. As for "Pet Loads" I've always found the late Ken Waters writings and load info to be interesting and useful. One of Ken's Pet Loads for .30-06 is what I have been using for whitetails the last several years, it consists of a Sierra Game King 165gr. over 56gr. of IMR 4350. This load is accurate and deadly on whitetails, 3 shot groups @ 100yds. are often tight cloverleafs and most deer have been DRT. In the late 1970's Ken would respond to questions sent to him by readers of Handloader magazine, my files contain several replies from Ken to questions I asked him. Most of my inquiries were regarding loading for Winchester lever actions, M/1886 in .33 WCF and M1895 in .30-06 and .35 WCF.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I did the whole workup process with both my 270s ( Pre-64 FWT & STD) and both shot superbly with the max load out of the Hornady book of 62gr of H4831. Empties slide right out and no ejector marks, flat primers, etc., so I hope I'm ok 
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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I’ve always used 58.5 gr of H4831 (new stuff) and 130 gr Partitions
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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I did the whole workup process with both my 270s ( Pre-64 FWT & STD) and both shot superbly with the max load out of the Hornady book of 62gr of H4831. Empties slide right out and no ejector marks, flat primers, etc., so I hope I'm ok I recently did this in my pre 64 .270 with 130 NBT. I had the same results although best accuracy for me was 61g. 62g was a full inch larger. My velocity closely matched what the Hornady manual says. Interestingly the Nosler max load shows 59g of H4831 getting 3118, but it took 61g for my rifle to get there.
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Campfire Outfitter
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My father and his brother's were JOC followers, me not so much in my early years. I was more interested in what was happening in my age group. Give me speed and magnums. As I was phasing out of that part of my guns and hunting interest, I discovered the 7x57 and I borrowed all my father's JOC books and articles. I tried every load JOC published on the 7x57 right down to make sure they were fired in W-W cases.
The most fun I have had with a JOC load is the 130 gr Speer 50 grs IMR 4320 that goes across my chronograph 3100-3125 fps in a 22" bbl. I am spanking the hind ends of some of the 270 Win shooting boys down at the range.
Last edited by roundoak; 02/24/22.
You're Welcome At My Fire Anytime
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Great thread, growing up as a poor-didn't know it-farm boy in the late 1950s I looked forward to reading JOCs articles in OL. I actually wrote him a letter when I was 11 asking him if It would be ok to shoot groundhogs with 215 grain bullets from my 303 British Enfield. He sent me a typed written letter stating he thought the 180s might be better because they shot flatter and he signed it. I still have the envelope and letter. Would JB do this? I think he would.
Mike
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If its "Made in America", its not setting on a container ship!
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Great thread, growing up as a poor-didn't know it-farm boy in the late 1950s I looked forward to reading JOCs articles in OL. I actually wrote him a letter when I was 11 asking him if It would be ok to shoot groundhogs with 215 grain bullets from my 303 British Enfield. He sent me a typed written letter stating he thought the 180s might be better because they shot flatter and he signed it. I still have the envelope and letter. Would JB do this? I think he would.
Mike When I was a kid I wrote to Pete Brown asking his advice about a scope for my .22. Guess that was kind of silly. But he wrote back to me. Sadly, I don’t have the letter.
Al
Spend your life wisely.
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Ole Jack was fond of the 270 Win/150 gr. as well,
Have loaded 55 gr. of IMR 4831 for decades, which now reproduces the modern Federal Premium factory loads.
Truly a meat-gitter combination.
GR
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My first handloaded cartridge was with one of JOC's loads, gleaned from "The Complete book of the Rifle and Shotgun." Got that as an introductory offer from the Outdoor Life Book Club, four books for a penny if I remember correctly. Read that thing till the covers fell off it and beyond; long and boring school bus rides will do that. He mentioned in passing that a load that he had had good luck with in several rifles was 49 grains of 4064 and a 130. I loaded one cartridge at the kitchen table with an unmounted press and the closest of my newly acquired Lee scoops bought with muskrat money, stuck one arm and the rifle out the front door on the farm-house and pulled the trigger. I figured "why lose both hands?" The door served as safety equipment I guess. Nothing fell off, but case was very smoky. Didn't know that was sign of low pressure at the time; so relying heavily on the "nothing blew up" observation I consulted the cardboard slide rule and came up 2 scoops that theoretically added up to 49 grains and repeated the one arm out the door method. The black soot was gone, nothing broke and I used that load for several years. I guess technically that makes JOC's load my second cartridge. Load development has progressed a bit since them.
Life begins at 40. Recoil begins at "Over 40" Coincidence? I don't think so.
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"Keith had experience and was a great storyteller, but his work was notorious for requiring a LOT of editing. Hell, I Was There didn't get the same amount of editing as Sixguns or his other works, and it shows."
The story that I heard was Elmer was quite angry at the way they edited "Keith, an Autobiography" so when "Hell I Was There!" was in the works, they had Keith tell it on tape and they'd print it verbatim. I have both books so never really could figure out why Elmer got so upset.
Paul B.
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Some of you older guys will remember Jack. I always respected his no nonsense, straight forward, based on real experience opinions.
Recently, I read through several of his old writings and came across some of his pet loads for the 30-06 which according to my reloading manuals are considerably "hotter" than their max loads.
Examples;
150 grain bullet-55 grains of 4320
180 grain bullet-50 grains of 4064.... I quote-"velocity in a 22-inch barrel is about 2,700"..."I have a somewhat remodeled Winchester Model 70 "Mannlicher" with a 19-inch barrel. Much to my surprise this load turns up a velocity of 2,630 in the short barrel. No. 4064 gives no great muzzle flash and a fairly light report. It is much more pleasant in a short barrel than slow-burning powder."
220 grain bullet-54 grains 4350 (doesn't mention whether IMR or H)
For the .270, in "the most remarkable rifle I ever had" (a M70 Featherweight, remodeled by Alvin Biesen)
62 grains of H4831 and the 130 grain Nosler...quote- " the velocity averages 3,140 in the 22-inch barrel. If I am having a good day, let the barrel cool a bit between shots, and take pains to hold the rifle the same for each shot, it will keep five shots in an inch or slightly over"....
Now O'Connor was the practical sort and I get the impression there was no BS in his writings...I am tempted to try these loads in some bolt guns but don't know if the properties of these smokeless powders have change significantly over the years....any opinions/advice would be appreciated. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/Y0Cw6Q4.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/c8WWuOr.jpg) There is a difference between these powders. It was also once said that JOC's scale may have been off by a grain as well.....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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