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To whom may wish to answer-- What is MIB media? Made In Boston?

I ask because I do not shoot bullets into inanimate media, but I do have a few stats on Elephant frontal brain shot penetration, Cape Buff lengthwise , and Water buff and Bison broad side penetration of NF, Kodiak, and Woodleigh Weldcore bullets at around 2100 fps.

I can not afford to waste good bullets on wads of wet paper, boards, cinder blocks, and oak trees.

I did shoot my .357 mag through a 6 inch oak tree once to show my son not to hide behind such fragile media.

Thanks to whomever has the answer.


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Sir Ron, certainly no apology needed. I am glad you experimented with them.
You have surpassed me on the seating depth fact finding mission. I wrote down “somewhere” the range of COAL that worked through my 458 Winchester Super Express. I need to organize all the 😳 paper towels😳 of information 😳. I am glad to hear that bullet will cycle for you.

I anticipate that wide meplat making an impression on what it hits. I hope the Professor of Bullet Technology is able to test it. I know that his testing is time consuming work and effort. My yard stick of measurement on it will be the 325 grain CEB BBW # 13.

I do not expect it to equal that #13, considering material & design. But, I am hoping a rather straight line penetration and a pretty good pathway of destruction from that WFN. At the least, I am hopeful for MIB “Alaska Capable” stamp of approval.

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Originally Posted by crshelton
To whom may wish to answer-- What is MIB media? Made In Boston?

I ask because I do not shoot bullets into inanimate media, but I do have a few stats on Elephant frontal brain shot penetration, Cape Buff lengthwise , and Water buff and Bison broad side penetration of NF, Kodiak, and Woodleigh Weldcore bullets at around 2100 fps.

I can not afford to waste good bullets on wads of wet paper, boards, cinder blocks, and oak trees.

I did shoot my .357 mag through a 6 inch oak tree once to show my son not to hide behind such fragile media.

Thanks to whomever has the answer.



The info is in a few posts up, above the bullet pictures.
McCourry Institute of Ballistics. Michael shot Literally Thousands of rounds of big bore ammo testing, and tweaking his bullet designs. He also shot several tractor trailer loads, if not train car loads of Cape and Australian Buffalo testing his bullet designs. Several beasts larger than Buffalo were also shot to field test and confirm design. I am sure he spent a shat-load of money and beaucoup time in bullet design.
The man really should write a book.

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Originally Posted by ldmay375
Russ, we need to get some of these Hammer 400/404 grain bullets in your hands. You whack a lot of animals, and trace the bullet performance, an excellent source for bullet performance from big to small animals.

Someone, somewhere, in Australia ordered some of these to test out on Buffalo. That should be about the ultimate test, probably the same for those big scrub bulls.


Hey mate,

I'd love to test some! I don't have access to buffalo but Sambar, Fallow and Red deer are all on the cards!

Russ


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Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
Originally Posted by BadboyMelvin
Here is a story I wrote on another forum some time ago so I thought I'd post it here.
It actually needs updating a bit as I wrote it a while ago now, but everything I wrote then I stand by now and I had fun writing it.
I Hope it doesn't bore you all!



Hey guys,

I'm at home sick (not Covid!) and I'm bored so I thought I'd share my .458 journey with you all. smile
I have personally owned 5 .458's over the years but my latest one is a keeper. Every time I've sold one I have ended up regretting it so I'm not selling this one!

My first .458 I bought after reading an article in Australian Shooters Journal magazine by John Woods. (AussieGunWriter)
It was a CZ550 Safari Magnum with the hogsback stock. I fitted it with a Tasco 1-4x scope (hey, I didn't know any better at the time... but the scope survived!) and it was a nice rifle.
It didn't feed that well but it was my introduction to big-bores.
I fed this rifle a mixture of Winchester 510gn Super X ammo and some reloads consisting of the 300gn Sierra on top of a min load of AR2207 for a chronographed 2650fps.
My intention was to originally ream this .458 to the .458LOTT - and I even got a quote for this job off a gunsmith, but when I found I was easily getting the velocity I was after out of the standard .458, I kept it as is, thus starting my love affair with the .458 Winchester.
I owned this rifle for a while but I found that my reloads and factory ammo didn't feed through the mag that well, and instead of getting it fixed I eventually ended up selling the rifle... which I regretted.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


The second .458 was also a CZ550 but with the American style stock.
I spent a bit of coin on this rifle, sending it to the respected gunsmith/ gun maker Kudu Services in Melbourne for some custom touches.
I had the fore-end shortened and a buffalo horn tip fitted for that safari look. Also has a couple of cross-bolts fitted and the action smoothed out as it wouldn't feed at all when first purchased. The barrel was shortened to 21" and a barrel-band sling swivel was added.
It was topped with a Pentax 2.5 scope.
This was a really nice looking rifle and was my introduction to hand loading long to suit the magnum sized magazine of the CZ.
A very easy load of AR 2206H achieved a spot on 2150fps with the 500gn Woodleigh PP through the 21" barrel.
I ended up selling this rifle to a well known gun writer in Australia to fund my next .458 purchase...
Looking at the photo's of this rifle I probably shouldn't have sold it...

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


My next .458 I purchased was a Winchester M70.
This was a great rifle but before I owned it, it was apparently a bit of a lemon.
I remember reading on forums about this actual rifle and how it had to be rectified to make it work satisfactory.
So when I purchased it I felt like I knew it already.
I fitted the same Pentax 2.5 scope to it and I fed this rifle the same loads I fed through the CZ - except they were too long. So what I did was seat the projectiles of these reloads deeper so that they would fit in the Winchester mag.
These rounds were very compressed and chronographed over 2200fps and kicked accordingly.
I ended up regretfully selling this rifle as I needed the funds and it just wasn't being used. I can happily say though that I have kept track of it and it's still going strong and killing the hell out of big stuff up in Queensland.
I regret selling that rifle...

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


After selling the Winchester there was a void in my life because I no longer owned a rifle that could kill an elephant... so I rectified that by buying a Zastava M70 with the Walnut stock.
I bought this rifle from a gunshop in Queensland (who were very rude) and was informed that this rifle was on its second stock - having split the first one before a box of shells had been put through it.
I was then again rudely informed that if the second stock split it was my problem. I bought it anyway as the price was right.
I paid $700 for this rifle and straight away took it to Bob at Kudu Services again to get the stock strengthened, cross-bolted and to get a buffalo horn tip fitted.
Bob took one look at the stock and in his usual blunt, to the point style said it was a waste of his time and my money doing that work as the stock was rubbish!
He then went out the back and brought out a Hogue pillar bedded synthetic stock and said I was better off fitting that. I left the rifle with him to fit as the safety needed modifications.
This rifle also taught me a valuable lesson to having to buy quality scopes for big-bore rifles - as it chewed through 3 before I finally bought a Leupold 2-7x33 which survived.
I fed this rifle a reload consisting of the Woodleigh 480gn RNSP over 74gn of 2206H which delivered a spot-on 2150fps and cloverleafed 3 shots at 50m.
This rifle was built on a budget and I have to say that it fed and ejected flawlessly from the start - no 'smithing was needed.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


It was about this time that deer hunting became my passion and as good as the .458 was, it wasn't the ideal deer rifle.
So I ended up trading the Zastava for a Weatherby Vanguard in .300Wby to a young guy who worked at a gunshop I frequent.
Talking to the guys who work there, apparently he took it out once - with my reloads, fired some and promptly said 'stuff that' then sold it!
Who would've thought that an elephant gun kicked???
But inevitably that void of not owning a .458 soon hit me, so I began the search for another one.
My poor wife agreed with the one proviso this was to be my last .458...
I was chatting to a friend who put me onto some leads, but when googling I found that Owen's guns in Queensland had some brand new. And for only $940.
I quickly purchased one and I now owned my 5th and last .458.
The first thing I needed to do was replace the stock as experience told me that this would be necessary. I put out the feelers on Australia's largest shooting/ hunting forum that I was after synthetic stock to suit a FN Mauser and straight away found another Hogue stock - but this one had the full aluminium bedding block, not just the pillars.
After modifying the safety myself (a simple 5min job) the Hogue was fitted and it was awesome. Nice and stiff and free floated.
After my learnt lesson with scopes last time, I straight away purchased a Leupold 1.5-4 in Leupold mounts/ rings.
I was told by a big-bore expert that these mounts weren't up to scratch so they were replaced with Warne rings and mounts.
Even though the 480gn Woodleighs performed perfectly I wanted to try something different with this rifle, so I purchased some 550gn Woodleigh RNSP.
I contacted Geoff McDonald of Woodleigh and he said to try 73gn of BM2 (BENCHMARK) for around 2100fps.
This I did and got a chronographed 2080fps in my rifle... pretty close! I got a total spread of 4 fps!
Recoil was pretty noticeable (sucked) with this load but once again (and this is a familiar story) it did put bullets in the same hole at 50m.
To be absolutely honest this load, in this rifle, calculated to 80ft/lbs and exceeded my recoil tolerance shooting off the bench. Off hand its unpleasant, but manageable... just.
I haven't tried this load on game yet, but I think it's obvious that it'll be pretty effective putting out 5200ft/lbs of energy.
I actually think that this latest Zastava might be my favourite. It just feels perfect in my hands and I love everything about it.
This one's a keeper.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


When I purchased my latest Zastava and went to purchase some factory ammo I found out that Winchester had stopped making it's cheap Super X stuff with the 510gn Powerpoint. Brass - when you could find it was expensive and this left me with a dilemma... what to feed it!
I called around and luckily came across someone who had an unopened case of some .458 factory ammo... from the 80's! It was the white and orange box stuff and I wondered if it would still be ok?
Well, not only was it ok it also was the fastest factory ammo I'd personally ever fired through a .458.
Most factory stuff - even fired through a 25' barrel of a CZ, only reached around 1970fps, where this stuff was doing 2015fps. This was only 25fps less than the box said. It was also super consistent and super accurate (like all .458's are) once again putting 3 bullets in one hole at 50m.
To be truthful I only bought this ammo to shoot off as quickly as possible so I could use the empties, but this ammo was so good, I used it for all my deer hunting for quite a while. I've only now just started using the 550's - but this stuff has proved to be great.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


So there's my .458 story. smile
I love the .458 and it is without a doubt my favourite round.
All the horror stories you have heard or read are ancient history and the .458 is a simple round to load. It's also super accurate.

Hope I didn't bore you and thanks for reading!

Russ

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
550gn Woodleigh handload at just under 2100fps... When you absolutely, positively need to put something on it's bum!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
2 factory Super X rounds that completely penetrated a big Gum tree at 50m... coz everyone knows the .458 doesn't penetrate...

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
480gn Woodleigh vs Fallow at 150m

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Sambar taken with the .458 loaded with factory stuff

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xiXKP9h.jpg[/img]
My first Red taken with the .458 in miserable conditions... also with factory ammo

[img]https://i.imgur.com/oK6D4LZ.jpg[/img]
Needs no explanation...


Russ,
Thanks for the article. This is the best reason to become a writer, to have the chance to help someone with a short cut, or help influence a decision to take that step into new cartridge territory.
Because you took that step, we are all beneficiaries of your journey.

John


Thank you John,

What a great reply and I appreciate you writing that.
Yes, I'm glad I took the plunge with the .458 - and have never regretted it.
And if I can ever help anyone with my little hunting/ shooting adventures, it just makes everything worth it.

Russ


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Thanks to both of you, that was a good read!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


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Much to appreciate in that testing Sirs. Are they plans for 1500 fps'ish impact speed testing? If we have a 400 yard bullet, we would love to see what Terminal looks like out there. My bet is just fine.

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I've worked on a ballistic profile for that bullet to 400 yards, with the following assumptions: 404gr, SD = .275, BC = .422, MV = 2550 fps. Environment: moose hunting this region in the fall 38*F, RH = 60%, Elevation 1200 ft.

At 400 yards = 1828 fps/ 2997 ft-lbs/ TE = 110 (Sir Ron's formula X 100 to make it very close to mine) compared to a 180gr at 2700 fps MV from a .30-06 = 40 TE at 300 yards (enough for an approximate 1000 lb moose at 2000 ft-lbs. Ballistics recommended by a professional at the MNR of Ontario for would-be moose hunters.)

As Sir Ron would say: "Close enough for horseshoes".

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Last edited by CZ550; 02/23/22.

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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
One mentioned earlier by Sir Larry, the 350-g/.416 TSX at similar velocity to the .458 B&M:

[Linked Image]

18" versus 22".

The 404-g/.458 beat it by 4".
That would be about 8" or more of greater penetration of critter.


That pic resembles the 350 TSX, .458" I shot into 15.5" of tough media. MV was 2470 fps from my Ruger #1 in .45-70 LT, impact at 5 yards = 2457/ 4693 ft-lbs. It was stopped by the last cardboard panel of the box at 15.5" penetration, and retained 100% weight, with all four petals intact (looking about identical to the pic above, only a bit wider and slightly shorter being a .458" instead of a .416". However, the BC given by Barnes is only .278. My tests gave it at least .338.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


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Thanks for that Bob.
I'll start it at 2400 fps your elevation and humidity are quite close to what we have here during moose season. Often time same temp also.

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Sir Larry,

Buy a donkey for taking care of Sir Charles who surely was joking or drunk on something.
Sir "Doc M" Michael, tycoon of South Carolina has more money and a bigger game bag than any dozen of us put together.
He has been seriously at the business of "love of knowledge" for a long time.
As evidence of his wisdom, here is the PhD he was awarded long ago, and he is still at it,
on the cutting edge of bulletology.

[Linked Image]

That Lehigh 380-gr/.458 copper WFN is now my preferred bullet for herd shooting zombies.
I bet if you get a dozen zombies' heads in a line, it will be more spectacular than shooting into a watermelon truck.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Originally Posted by Fury01
If we have a 400 yard bullet, we would love to see what Terminal looks like out there. My bet is just fine.

Sir Dennis,
I think the simple water bucket test will do for that.
I will use the 19.75"-barreled, 1:10" twist .458 BMW slow and low yardage to mimic the .458 WM at long range.
Then maybe I can set up a water trap at 400 yards for the 1:14" twist started off at 2500 fps,
Freezing rain here tonight.
Creeks gotta go down and the mud needs to firm up a bit to truck into the artillery test range.


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Sir Bob would have no trouble shooting moose at 400 yards with those ballistics he cites,
very do-able with his Ruger No. 1 .458 WM.


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Sir Ron,
I love that Doctorate certificate, that Colt, and those cartridges!
Glad to know that Lehigh 380 grain is Zombie approved also.

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I'm amazed at the way these petal shed but penetrate and produce larger wound channels than traditional lead core expanding or even TSX or TTSX bullets. .
The petals shedders in lighter weight penetrate deeper and leave larger wound channels, than traditional bullets.
Amazing

Last edited by jwp475; 02/24/22.


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Idmay375,
Thank you for answering my question.


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Originally Posted by jwp475

I'm amazed at the way these petal shed but penetrate and produce larger wound channels than traditional lead core expanding or even TSX or TTSX buts .
The petals shedders in lighter weight peneyrate deeper and leave larger wound channels.
Amazing


Cant wait to see/read what it does on truly heavy game [read Cape Buffalo] it's going to have to be a World Star to better the 450gr TSX at 2463 fps from my 458 WM+


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Originally Posted by gunner500

Originally Posted by jwp475

I'm amazed at the way these petal shed but penetrate and produce larger wound channels than traditional lead core expanding or even TSX or TTSX buts .
The petals shedders in lighter weight peneyrate deeper and leave larger wound channels.
Amazing


Cant wait to see/read what it does on truly heavy game [read Cape Buffalo] it's going to have to be a World Star to better the 450gr TSX at 2463 fps from my 458 WM+



I have some 416 Shock Hammer bullets and Micheal458 AKA MIB said that they will out penetrste the 350 grain TSX



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by gunner500

Originally Posted by jwp475

I'm amazed at the way these petal shed but penetrate and produce larger wound channels than traditional lead core expanding or even TSX or TTSX buts .
The petals shedders in lighter weight peneyrate deeper and leave larger wound channels.
Amazing


Cant wait to see/read what it does on truly heavy game [read Cape Buffalo] it's going to have to be a World Star to better the 450gr TSX at 2463 fps from my 458 WM+



I have some 416 Shock Hammer bullets and Micheal458 AKA MIB said that they will out penetrste the 350 grain TSX



Good to know and comparing apples and oranges i know, but a .585" 750gr TSX from my 577 Nitro double at only 2076 fps went into a Tanzanian Cape Buffalo at last left side rib at 16 yards to be found as a lump under the hide on the front of the right shoulder, at the shot the bull collapsed and began his death bellow as i moved quickly left to give him a solid through both shoulders.

If the 400/403gr Hammers will do that as i believe the 450gr TSX's most certainly will you guys will have a truly amazing projectile. smile


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so i think hornady, speer, sierra should make a regular 400 grain spitzer cup and core bullet for north american game!

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