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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Might be true.

Russia asks for Help FT reports

Quote
Russia has asked China for military ​equipment to ​support its invasion of Ukraine, ​according to US officials, sparking concern in ​the White House that Beijing ​may undermine western efforts to help Ukrainian forces defend their country.

US officials told the Financial Times that Russia had requested military equipment and other assistance since the start of the invasion. They declined to give details about what Russia had requested.

Another person familiar with the situation said the US was preparing to warn its allies, amid some indications that China may be preparing to help Russia. Other US officials have said there were signs that Russia was running out of some kinds of weaponry as the war in Ukraine extends into its third week.

The White House did not comment.


China responded with the following OP Ed in the NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/opinion/china-russia-ukraine.html



Opinion|It’s Time to Offer Russia an Offramp. China Can Help With That.

By
Wang Huiyao

Guest Essay

March 13, 2022


Dr. Wang is the founder and president of the Center for China and Globalization, a nongovernmental think tank based in Beijing. He advises the Chinese government in that capacity.

Casualties are mounting in Ukraine. Bombs continue to fall. More than 2 million refugees have fled the fighting.

Vladimir Putin seems to have assumed he could get a swift victory, underestimating the fierce resistance from Ukraine. Two weeks in, Russia is intensifying its assault on Ukraine, and Western nations in turn are intensifying their financial and economic punishments against Russia, including by triggering the financial “nuclear option” — banning some Russian banks from the SWIFT payment system. Meanwhile, Mr. Putin has put his actual nuclear forces on high alert.

We are now in an escalatory spiral. Mounting pressure on Mr. Putin will likely make the situation more dangerous as Russia’s leader feels pushed to take increasingly extreme measures — such as what we’ve seen in the past few days with the Russian army’s siege tactics and attacks on civilian areas.

And so, unpalatable as some in the West may find the idea, it is time to offer the Russian leader an offramp with China’s help. On Tuesday, President Xi Jinping of China held a virtual summit with President Emmanuel Macron of France and Chancellor Olaf Scholz of Germany, urging a diplomatic solution.

The United States and its allies might be reluctant to have China play any role in this crisis, given that they view Beijing as a strategic rival. That’s foolish and shortsighted; the conflict’s immediate dangers far outweigh any competitive considerations. Ukraine itself sees the potential of Chinese-led conflict resolution.

So far, China has called for dialogue and says it supports humanitarian aid efforts. But Beijing’s interests in more proactive involvement are growing by the day.

China has a significant economic interest in a quick resolution to the Russian-Ukrainian war. China enjoys strong ties with Russia and Ukraine and is both countries’ largest single trading partner, though each trades more with the E.U. bloc than with China. Russia and Ukraine are crucial components of the Belt and Road infrastructure program as well as conduits for China’s trade with Europe. China-Europe rail transports have experienced a hundredfold increase since the beginning of the 2010s, but the ongoing conflict threatens to disrupt these trade flows.

China is also uniquely positioned to act as a neutral mediator between a Western-supported Ukraine and Russia. Yes, Beijing and Moscow have a strong and growing relationship, especially in the economic realm. China’s demand for resources that Russia has in abundance — food and energy — as well as a mutual dissatisfaction with the current state of the U.S.-led world order have increasingly drawn the two countries together. This alliance was cemented when Mr. Putin and Mr. Xi met last month and issued a joint statement underscoring their deep ties and reaffirming a partnership with “no forbidden zones.”

Image

Mr. Xi and Mr. Putin in Moscow during talks in 2019.Credit...Pool photo by Alexander Zemlianichenko
It is not in Beijing’s interests to rely solely on an anti-Western alliance with Moscow. Russia may possess a mighty military, but its economy is in long-term structural decline, with a G.D.P. not much larger than that of Spain. For all the talk of ties with Moscow, it is worth remembering that China’s economic interests with Russia are dwarfed by those it shares with the West. In 2021, trade between China and Russia may have jumped by 36 percent compared to the prior year, to $147 billion — but that’s still less than a tenth of the combined trade with the United States ($657 billion) and European Union ($828 billion).

Even if China isn’t joining in the sanctions, it is possible that Chinese businesses and banks will decrease involvement with Russia to avoid a backlash in other, more important markets. As Russia becomes isolated from the world economy, China will not want to shoulder Russia’s economic burden alone.

The prospect of a growing economic relationship between Moscow and Beijing may be threatening to the West, but from Mr. Putin’s perspective, it provides China with leverage over him in potential negotiations. As he and his country face increasing isolation, he can’t afford to lose China, too.

There are also political reasons China wants this conflict to end in a way that is appealing to all involved. The longer the war lasts, the more it will reinvigorate the Western alliance around the idea of a values-based confrontation between East and West, bringing the United States and the European Union into even closer alignment while driving military budgets up around the globe. That is not good for China, which would prefer to maintain lucrative economic ties with the West and focus its resources on domestic development.

At a time when China faces increasing global criticism for its human rights violations, mediating an end to this conflict could help improve the country’s standing with the West. Beijing has long striven to convince political and business elites in Europe and America that the rise of China does not present a threat. Support for Russian aggression — even perceived support — threatens to undermine that assertion. By contrast, playing a constructive role in ending the war could help cast China as a strategic and not just economic partner.

Ideologically, China has common ground with both Ukraine and Russia. China deeply values the principle of state sovereignty and has long opposed outside interference in what it considers internal affairs such as Taiwan. Last month, Foreign Minister Wang Yi of China once again called for a global respect of territorial integrity, saying, “Ukraine is no exception.” In this way, at least, Mr. Putin’s invasion directly undercuts one of China’s key values.

China — like Russia — is wary of pro-democratic Western influence globally. So far, Chinese media has avoided criticism of Russia and even adopted Moscow’s narrative of the war. The two countries share grievances over perceived Western hostility and hypocrisy. Framing the invasion as anti-West and anti-NATO helps justify Mr. Putin’s action to a domestic audience.

The longer the war goes on, though, China may find itself in a position of diminishing returns in its close relationship with Russia. This makes the argument for Beijing to take on an active mediation role even more compelling.

What form could mediation take? Any serious resolution would have to involve the United States and the European Union as key actors in European security arrangements. Beijing could help to broker an immediate cease-fire as a prelude to talks among Russia, Ukraine, the United States, the European Union and China.

Beijing’s goal would be to find a solution that gives Mr. Putin sufficient security assurances that can be presented as a win to his domestic audience while protecting Ukraine’s core sovereignty and NATO’s open-door policy. Finding a landing zone for such an agreement is challenging but not impossible. Some creative diplomacy could solve this, such as a formula for NATO expansion that rules out Ukrainian membership in practice while preserving its sovereignty and NATO principles in theory.

Securing a multilateral resolution to the crisis in Ukraine will be a tough and risky challenge, but there is no country better placed to do so than China.

Dr. Wang Huiyao (@huiyaowang) is the founder and president of the Center for China and Globalization, a nongovernmental think tank based in Beijing. He advises the Chinese government in that capacity.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: lettersnytimes.com.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram.


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty

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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Infubar,

A blockchain currency can't be backed by gold or any physical commodity.

The backing is the time it takes to digitally mine and the security of the blockchain.

It's still fiat currency.

John,
By no means am I an expert on blockchain or anything to do with Tech... but my understanding is blockchain is a fancy word for ledger. A ledger than records and displays every transaction ever made.
So forgive me if I use the wrong techno babble....
Point being a system that uses a ledger based on computing power backed by gold. Seems it could be done?
Again these things are like predictions, little upside for me and a ton of downside as in campfire fashion if I am wrong a dozen guys will jump my schit. I do appreciate the discussion though

The reason for the blockchain (ledger so to speak) is that it validates the coin as having been properly "mined". As in it's always traceable through all transactions back to the origin of the coin.

Think about that for a bit, always traceable back to the origin because every transaction is recorded in the blockchain.

Commodities backed money require a trusted organization always willing to redeem the money for the commodity.

If you tie it to gold you had better always have enough gold and that can limit the growth of an economy.

Much like Ukraine there are no simple anwers and pretty much everyone is playing an angle.



Yes I understand.... I have heard the argument about having enough gold to not limit the growth of the economy. Just re-value the gold in reserves.
Thing is all fiats from the beginning of time fail.... all of them, this time is no different.
These ponzi's only last maybe 40 yrs we are past due to fail.
The only way to create a stable money is to limit the supply, i.e. restrict creation from nothing.
Right now western bankers control it all and they control it to their benefit, the money handlers should not be the richest people in society.
A block chain eliminates these "money handlers" a very good thing for the productive people... a bad thing for the un-productive parasites


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Kingston,
The premise of that article I disagree with. They claim China has a much larger trade with the US than Russia, that is true but it is not beneficial for China due to our economic advantage posed by the reserve currency. I believe they would rather enrich their own population enough to have them buying Chinese goods, along with a billion or two Indian's.
Russia has energy to sell to fuel this growth.
If they could empower east Asia's population economically they will not need the West and it's punitive and manipulated reserve currency and USD.
They actually work hard and produce value. We produce dollars. Hard commodities are playing out to be the near term store of value and those commodities should have value over fiat.


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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The sky is falling,the sky is falling,again!!! crazy


Its all right to be white!!
Stupidity left unattended will run rampant
Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Originally Posted by Huntz
The sky is falling,the sky is falling,again!!! crazy


You damn normies.... smile I wish I could be so... head in the sand... uum I mean cavalier


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
IC B2

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I just remember all the jokes Ronald Reagan would crack about the in eptness of the soviets.

Where there is smoke there is 🔥

Me thinks Rootin Tootin Putins sheit got rusty.

I also think some cyber shenanigans has hit the kremlin

Kinda reminds of the comic soldier sad sack.

The big bad red bear has turned into


Boo boo

Last edited by Angus1895; 03/13/22.

"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills












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Originally Posted by Angus1895
I just remember all the jokes Ronald Reagan would crack about the in eptness of the soviets.

Where there is smoke there is 🔥

Me think Rootin Tootin Putins sheit got rusty.

Kinda reminds of the comic soldier sad sack.

The big bad red bear has turned into


Boo boo


He has nuclear warheads , you tool


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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I am sure they get as much upgrades and attention as the


What do you call them clowns?

Infantry?


"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills












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Campfire 'Bwana
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Originally Posted by irfubar
Kingston,
The premise of that article I disagree with. They claim China has a much larger trade with the US than Russia, that is true but it is not beneficial for China due to our economic advantage posed by the reserve currency. I believe they would rather enrich their own population enough to have them buying Chinese goods, along with a billion or two Indian's.
Russia has energy to sell to fuel this growth.
If they could empower east Asia's population economically they will not need the West and it's punitive and manipulated reserve currency and USD.
They actually work hard and produce value. We produce dollars. Hard commodities are playing out to be the near term store of value and those commodities should have value over fiat.


This isn't a speculative argument by some outside academic. This piece is wholly sanctioned by the Chinese Communist Party. It's a communiqué delivered by a Chinese operative. Literally.


Originally Posted by 16penny
If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty
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Originally Posted by Angus1895
I am sure they get as much upgrades and attention as the


What do you call them clowns?

Infantry?


Oh sure they may blow up on launch when they hit the button..... or not
Either way he commands respect with these weapons whether we like it or not.
And the way things are going I don't have much faith in general Mileys "woke" army of transgenders and yes I know that is an exaggeration, but still , diplomacy is a better path


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
IC B3

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Originally Posted by kingston
Originally Posted by irfubar
Kingston,
The premise of that article I disagree with. They claim China has a much larger trade with the US than Russia, that is true but it is not beneficial for China due to our economic advantage posed by the reserve currency. I believe they would rather enrich their own population enough to have them buying Chinese goods, along with a billion or two Indian's.
Russia has energy to sell to fuel this growth.
If they could empower east Asia's population economically they will not need the West and it's punitive and manipulated reserve currency and USD.
They actually work hard and produce value. We produce dollars. Hard commodities are playing out to be the near term store of value and those commodities should have value over fiat.


This isn't a speculative argument by some outside academic. This piece is wholly sanctioned by the Chinese Communist Party. It's a communiqué delivered by a Chinese operative. Literally.


Ok I will re read it tomorrow and ponder it.... wink


Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha

Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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It still makes him

Sad Sack

In command of

Boo boo

I have no respect

Last edited by Angus1895; 03/13/22.

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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
China is not stupid enough to be drawn into this. If they isolate themselves from the rest of the world economically, they are toast. They need the rest of the world buying their cheap schidt.



This may sound overly simple but its 100% correct imho


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Originally Posted by hanco
I don’t see how that is possible, if true, they are in sad shape.


Bro, Putin and Xi are joining in with Trump in draining the Bolsheviks NWO neonazi swamp.

China is still buying oil from Russia. Xi has just now shown he is decoupling from the CCP. Que told us of this in 2018.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

The leftists scum is falling over in their own schiett. Remember Trump and Melania staying overnight with Xi and his wife on Trumps trip to Chyna?

The only white man ever invited to the Forbidden City. It's a clue.

Last edited by jaguartx; 03/13/22.

Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

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Originally Posted by Three30Eight
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
China is not stupid enough to be drawn into this. If they isolate themselves from the rest of the world economically, they are toast. They need the rest of the world buying their cheap schidt.



This may sound overly simple but its 100% correct imho



China needs us to buy their cheap shidt.

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Originally Posted by Angus1895
I am sure they get as much upgrades and attention as the


What do you call them clowns?

Infantry?


another military genius. You serve overseas in an infantry unit? I am guessing the closest you got to the military was watching Gomer Pyle reruns on the boomer channel lol

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Originally Posted by Three30Eight
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
China is not stupid enough to be drawn into this. If they isolate themselves from the rest of the world economically, they are toast. They need the rest of the world buying their cheap schidt.



This may sound overly simple but its 100% correct imho



Where is China going to get their energy and resources to keep their economy going?

The Bakken in the US?

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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by KFWA
what words? you're telling me I'm gonna be eating out of a trash can while you'll be eating the high dollar spam when China forces the world off the petrol dollar.

what am I supposed to do with that? I know, I'll uproot my family, move into the wilderness, get a wood stove, dig a well ,grow an ass load of tomatoes and raise goats, and sell everything I own to buy gold and crypto because a guy named irfurbar on the internet is telling me my world is going to end in a few months.


LOL.

You seem very ungrateful for his wise words of doom and gloom and your inadequte preps for the coming apocalypse.

You silly "normies". grin

I am waiting for him the explain what exact currency is going to replace the Dollar? China's RMB or Russian Rubles?

They have been trying to do this for years but everybody knows China is litterally the worlds worst currency manipulator and who would be willing to get paid in Rubles?


Hell, we'd all be rich. Millionaires. Billionaires, Trillionairs! IIRC, one Ruble is worth less than one US Cent. .8 or something like.


The only true cost of having a dog is its death.

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Originally Posted by irfubar
Originally Posted by KFWA
how the phug can they be running out of weaponry in the 3rd week?

I don't doubt that China would help them but that is a big economic risk for them.

China and Russia are going to gang up and destroy the petro dollar.... you better hope they aren't successful, your company will go tits up

China, Russia, and India forming a trading block, trading with China's two-currency system, is game over for the petro dollar.


"He is far from Stupid"

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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Might be true.

Russia asks for Help FT reports

Quote
Russia has asked China for military ​equipment to ​support its invasion of Ukraine, ​according to US officials, sparking concern in ​the White House that Beijing ​may undermine western efforts to help Ukrainian forces defend their country.

US officials told the Financial Times that Russia had requested military equipment and other assistance since the start of the invasion. They declined to give details about what Russia had requested.

Another person familiar with the situation said the US was preparing to warn its allies, amid some indications that China may be preparing to help Russia. Other US officials have said there were signs that Russia was running out of some kinds of weaponry as the war in Ukraine extends into its third week.

The White House did not comment.

Propaganda to give the US Neocons the excuse they need to get directly involved, and start the war they want.


"He is far from Stupid"

”person, who happens to have an above-average level of intelligence


– DocRocket (In reference to ElkSlayer91)



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