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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,115 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,115 Likes: 20 |
Most household 220/240 outlets (dryer, welder, etc) are 50 to 60 amp.
I have one 50 amp 220 on the outside of the wellhouse for an RV plug and two wells inside. Another 50 amp RV plug on the outside of the garage, as well as a 50 amp welder circuit in the garage.
The house has one 60 amp feeding the furnace as well as a 30 amp to the AC, 50 amps to the dryer, 30 amps to the water heater, and 40 amps to the range.
This is all fed from one 200 amp main at the meter. You just don't run every circuit at maximum capacity simultaneously. RV outlets are 110v not 220 Really? Do you need photos of the four prong receptacles, cords, and breakers feeding them? You do understand that two separate legs of 110 makes a 220 outlet, whether you actually use it as a 220 or as two 110s in the trailer.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,287 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,287 Likes: 3 |
Toyota is now building their third generation of hybrids. How they work is beyond me - but the owner of our local dealership tells me they have not had to replace a single battery since Gen Two. They are good for at least 100,000 miles - probably for the life of the vehicle. They just don't know yet because none have failed.
If I grasp it, and based on how ours works, the VERY high-tech little 4-cyl engine runs all the time turning the generator. That in turn powers the drive motors and/or charges the battery depending on load. The wheels are powered by electric motors only. There is no direct connection of the 4-cyl to the wheels. All I know for sure is that it runs smoothly, quietly, and with plenty of gusto when I need it. I don't know of any other six-passenger mid-size SUV that gets 36 mpg.
We drive it to Arizona once or twice a year to visit daughter's family. It is mountainous all the way. We go 300 miles or so between gas stops, and need only eight gallons or less to fill up each time. Rocky, you're describing a serial hybrid system. All hybrid Toyotas until present are parallel hybrid systems. The IC engine is directly connected to the wheels, with an electric motor able to drive them as well. The EM is not mounted at the wheels, but drives through the standard IC drivetrain. I know it's unlikely you'll see this, or if you do you'll ignore it, just as the last time I pointed it out to you. But at least everyone else reading this after my post won't be misinformed. And yes, the IC engine is high tech, I know it runs on Atkinson cycle, but am not sure if it can cycle between Otto and Atkinson cycle, as some engines are capable of doing.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,080 Likes: 11
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 10,080 Likes: 11 |
We have a 2021 pacifica hybrid that can go 32 miles on a battery charge before the gas v6 kicks in. I thought it was a gimmick and was reluctant to buy it but it had the features and colors we wanted and a $7500 tax credit. We just did our taxes and the credit helped a bunch.
The 32 mile range has worked out better than I thought. Is about enough for my wife to make it to work and back or make a run to town and back without using much gas. If we aren't going on a trip we can sometimes go almost a month without fueling up. We took a road trip to lava hot springs today and it got 29.5 mpg on gas at 84 mph so it does ok on fuel alone. Sometimes after mostly short trips using electricity it will show about 58 mpg and. I have 7.6 kwatts of solar on my house bug adding the can means I still get a power bill most months. When gas was $2 it seemed close to a wash. At $4 gas the electricity is cheaper.
Bb
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,904 Likes: 7
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,904 Likes: 7 |
That second or third vehicle investment cost and ownership/operating cost can represent a LOT of future fuel dollars for the primary vehicle.
I will stick with my truck. The wife gets whatever she wants.
Exactly. The big dollars on transportation have always been spent at the dealership, not the gas pump. Depreciation is a bitch, or always has been until these unprecedented times of not being able to readily buy new vehicles because of supply chain problems. I'm thinking a beater pick up truck will beat an EV even at today's gas prices on total cost to go 100K miles, and pretty badly.
Last edited by RJY66; 03/20/22.
"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,305 Likes: 19
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,305 Likes: 19 |
Scott, I have watched two videos which describe the system in different ways. So if I'm confused, so are a lot of other people - some of them Toyota service people.
Whichever. The facts are that Toyota does it in a very high-tech way. Their hybrid cars are powered by both a gas engine and an electric motor in varying ways depending on the driving situation, and the battery in them is claimed to never need replacement. And their regular hybrids never need to be plugged in.
(They do have plug-in hybrids, also, but I know even less about those.)
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,565 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,565 Likes: 26 |
My OP is about a plug-in. It's about the same as a regular hybrid but you can plug it in when you're not driving to get a full charge without burning any gas at all in the car. If you don't run over 42 miles between charges, the gas motor won't run at all.
Our daughter lives in Portland, OR. Their electric rates are variable. Off peak is between 10pm and 6am. Its 4.13/kwh. On peak is a killer - 20.5 cents/kwh. You can save a lot by plugging it in before you go to bed. I don't know what happens if it's plugged in all night. I assume it has a shutoff to prevent overcharging but that's a guess.
edited: I looked it up. It won't overcharge. It'll kick into a maintenance mode to keep the battery topped off indefinitely.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4,915 Likes: 12
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4,915 Likes: 12 |
Scott, I have watched two videos which describe the system in different ways. So if I'm confused, so are a lot of other people - some of them Toyota service people.
Whichever. The facts are that Toyota does it in a very high-tech way. Their hybrid cars are powered by both a gas engine and an electric motor in varying ways depending on the driving situation, and the battery in them is claimed to never need replacement. And their regular hybrids never need to be plugged in.
(They do have plug-in hybrids, also, but I know even less about those.) Rocky, if you’ve even seen the drive belt setup on a snowmobile or a UTV, that’s how a hybrid gas motor puts power to the wheels. The electric motor runs alongside, with the two putting power to the wheels and the battery depending on the needs at the moment. https://powersportsguide.com/how-does-a-snowmobile-clutch-work/
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,305 Likes: 19
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,305 Likes: 19 |
No, I have never laid eyes on a snowmobile belt system. Nor do I really need to know if our Highlander Hybrid is a serial, parallel, or transsexual system.
What I do know is that there are whole lot of people who believe things that simply are not true. Or at least are no longer true - about hybrids.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4,915 Likes: 12
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4,915 Likes: 12 |
I agree. I have a Prius and love it.
It does exactly what I need it to do - provide me with reliable transportation to drive 35K a year for about 12 cents/mile fuel cost (up to 20 with recent price hikes). I have an SUV and trailer for hauling what needs hauling but it’s mostly used by Slavyanka for running around town (she prefers the bigger vehicle anyway).
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,188
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,188 |
You have not been listening, have you? My dealership says that since Gen 2 of Toyota hybrids, they have NEVER replaced a battery. And do not expect to for the life of the vehicle. Can you read and comprehend what I wrote about green energy destroying our economy. Replacing batteries is a tiny part of the cost of green energy.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,166
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 12,166 |
Rocky, if you’ve even seen the drive belt setup on a snowmobile or a UTV, that’s how a hybrid gas motor puts power to the wheels. The electric motor runs alongside, with the two putting power to the wheels and the battery depending on the needs at the moment. https://powersportsguide.com/how-does-a-snowmobile-clutch-work/That's how a CVT works that many makers use. Toyota doesn't use that system, theirs is much more high tech. BC30cal's link explains the Toyota system.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,904 Likes: 5
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 12,904 Likes: 5 |
Too, there are alternatives for less-than-rural folk to owning a pu. Utility trailers for light-to-medium weight hauling, and rental trucks for the time or two each year when they are what's needed. I live way out in the boondocks and have lived without a pu for over a decade, so I know it can be done without undue inconvenience.
RB What chap's my butt is how useless the late model, 4 door "pickups" are to haul stuff. When I need to go get pipe, I take the minivan, at least I can strap it to the roof rack and get it home. Hopeless in a pickup with a 4.5' bed, even for 10' "home depot" length sticks. Ditto with 2x4's. Try putting a couple of 12' sticks of lumber in the back of a pickup. Yup, trailer time. And let's not get started on payload. My minivan has a higher payload than my buddy's 1500 ecodiesel....
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,768 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,768 Likes: 5 |
You have not been listening, have you? My dealership says that since Gen 2 of Toyota hybrids, they have NEVER replaced a battery. And do not expect to for the life of the vehicle. Everyone is listening,! Where do the batteries go when the car is wrecked. What happens when the battery is smashed in an accident. What dealers do, and what happens elsewhere are different. That said I am thinking of a Tesla for the wifes next auto. If I can convince her she doesn't need a SUV, the size she drives now! I'll keep driving my old duramax.
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4,915 Likes: 12
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 4,915 Likes: 12 |
Saw a guy driving the Mustang e-pony when i went to fill a bbq tank.
He says it’s his wife’s, he prefers the truck. It gets about 250 miles to a charge and a charge is $5
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 635
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 635 |
Lots of people own more than one vehicle, as you well know. Having a cheap daily driver and a thirsty tow vehicle seems like a darn good option. Especially with $5+ gasoline. Lots of people own more than one vehicle, as you well know. Having a cheap daily driver and a thirsty tow vehicle seems like a darn good option. Especially with $5+ gasoline. So where do we find these "cheap daily driver" EVs?
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 635
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 635 |
You have not been listening, have you? My dealership says that since Gen 2 of Toyota hybrids, they have NEVER replaced a battery. And do not expect to for the life of the vehicle. You have not been listening, have you? My dealership says that since Gen 2 of Toyota hybrids, they have NEVER replaced a battery. And do not expect to for the life of the vehicle. How long will thosebatteries last when (if) they are put in 400-500 mile range vehicles in Montana, Alaska and used for towing? Still 100K miles is nothing. Many of us would have a throw away EV after four years.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,115 Likes: 20
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 26,115 Likes: 20 |
Too, there are alternatives for less-than-rural folk to owning a pu. Utility trailers for light-to-medium weight hauling, and rental trucks for the time or two each year when they are what's needed. I live way out in the boondocks and have lived without a pu for over a decade, so I know it can be done without undue inconvenience.
RB What chap's my butt is how useless the late model, 4 door "pickups" are to haul stuff. When I need to go get pipe, I take the minivan, at least I can strap it to the roof rack and get it home. Hopeless in a pickup with a 4.5' bed, even for 10' "home depot" length sticks. Ditto with 2x4's. Try putting a couple of 12' sticks of lumber in the back of a pickup. Yup, trailer time. And let's not get started on payload. My minivan has a higher payload than my buddy's 1500 ecodiesel.... Interesting. I have none of those issues with my $5,000 2002 GMC
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,565 Likes: 26
Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,565 Likes: 26 |
Many of the newer 1/2 tons have a higher payload than my '08 Dodge 2500. I do have an 8' bed, though.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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