Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire How many of our Christian Conservatives

Free choice is paramount. Gods idea.
If you believe, you have to concede that He could control our actions.
He doesn't. We decide.

Who has the right to determine he should over rule that?



The Holier Than Thou Bible Thumper types prattle on about "Prayer in School".

I am 100% against it.
The kids are not prohibited from quietly conversing with God.
They can freely do so anytime, anywhere.

But in a country with religious freedom, if we were to allow organized prayer?

Whose prayer?

One teacher is Baptist, one Catholic, Jew/orthodox Jew, Buddist, Muslim.......

Everyone thinks school prayer, "it will be my religon".
WRONG!!!

None at all for me, separation of Church and State.

A simple, NO!

Our founding fathers showed their genius, in separating Church, and state.

Perhaps I don't quite understand your position Please explain it a little more. Certainly everyone has free will as to whether or not they sin. Are you saying that one must quit sinning to be saved and part of His family Big Five Jack?

Someone show me a binding document that declares the separation of church and state. It isn’t that I disagree with the concept, but this is one of those little nuggets of bullshit that has been repeated so many times that most everybody believes it’s true.

The first amendment is clearly written to keep government from declaring a national religion. That’s it! Don’t believe me? Read it for yourself.

The closest thing I can find is a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists. This would have absolutely no legal standing whatsoever.

+100!

NEVER! And I wouldn’t want to live anywhere that mandated a religion.

The beauty of our Nation is our FREEDOM. The freedom to believe in any religion or the freedom to not believe in any religion is a pillar of our Constitution!

You're talking about my post in another thread. First my very best friend absolutely hates churches. I respect him for that and know some of the reasons he feels that way. You may very well be like him. What my point is that if you are of the mindset that christians in general need to be kept away from places of influence, like our government, I think you're wrong. Not you personally but in the general term.

So here's something. Prayer in school. You may not like that, fine. I feel it's okay. If your child does not want to pray then so be it but if mine does lets treat it the same. It's not that way though, in many places. My child can be kicked out of school for doing so. That is wrong. I would not want your child forced into prayer either. So here's the solution of the leftist. Outlaw it. It fits their agenda perfectly. Are you okay with that? If so then you are aligning yourself with them.

Many christians, including myself are more in tune with your desire to not worship God than you may know. I would not want any law passed to force you to do so. So here is my plight. How can I fight the leftist/communist takeover and not insult you? I don't want to alienate you but at the same time what they're doing is destroying our nation. You must see that as a conservative.

Here's another thing. On conservatism. We want less government, on that I am sure we agree. They have been over reaching for years. Why is the government so intrusive in our schools? We know why. So they can control what these kids are taught or not taught. The dumbing down of America as Rush so often called it.

An iron clad statement for me is that you cannot be a true christian and be a liberal and support what they do. So I know of many that claim to be christians and sanction almost everything these people do. I want nothing to do with them. To me they are deceived. Rush Limbaugh was one of the finest conservatives I think we've seen but he rarely spoke of God. What he did do was to defend many, at times even more than most clergy, foundational aspects of Christianity. Like opposing abortion. He also believed our country was founded on biblical principals. I feel the same. I hope you do too.

I'm not saying you have to attend church or read the Bible to be a good person. My friend I mentioned does neither but he and I relate on things that are founded on what the Bible teaches. Trust, integrity, honesty, respect, love of country and fellow man. Is that was motivates you in how you behave? If you're truly a conservative there is only one answer. Our Founders were conservatives. If you share that with me we will have more in common than you may believe. Their way is the only way to go forward. If we do we will be doing something that pleases God, in my opinion. If you're living a life of a true conservative that alone will mean you are doing things aligning with Godliness. To take God out of any conservative effort is not the way to go.

Law is simply the codification of morality.

What moral system should we base our laws on?

The thing that baffles me is the number of people on the fire that have a generally negative view towards Christianity but at the same time reminiscence about the 50’s or even the 80’s when Christianity was still the norm Vs. Today’s secularism. They seem unable to make a basic connection between the two. Same for those that seem to believe that it’s Christian’s driving todays agenda and imposing government and politics on others when it seems fairly obvious that it’s 180 degrees the opposite.

Yep I think it was around 1830 or so when the last state finally dropped it's official state religion. I looked it up a while back, but don't remember the specifics.

Personally I'd be fine with banning the practice of Islam, but then I'd be fine with banning the Socialist and Communist parties too. At the state level.

It might help you if you would repent of your lying. Why don't you confess all the lies you have told on this forum.
How about start with that story you told about that fantastic 10 group you shot into 1 hole when you were less than 10 years old.

Nothing you say here has any credibility.

That’s the key point.

Our system of government was based on the idea of mostly similar people with similar shared values rooted in one form of Christian doctrine or another. When we lost that we became a rudderless ship as a nation with nothing to base anything on.

Freedom of religion DOES indeed include all your aforementioned groups but it most certainly does not mean freedom FROM religion. You are free to choose (or not), to worship (or not) as you see fit but that does NOT infer that you should have any expectation or “freedom” from not witnessing someone else practicing theirs. You can’t be obligated to participate but you aren’t immune from inquiry.

Freedom OF religion is enshrined in our Constitution, articulated by honest God-fearing men that understood the potential for abuse when government mandated a state religion. It guarantees that you can practice your religion without repercussions.

Freedom FROM religion is a false notion that, unlike our “real” rights, requires something from others ie, suppressing the expression of one’s faith. It is a false notion that is pursued by un-enlightened, selfish and godless men that use deception as a premise.

You can choose religion or not. I can choose religion or not but neither of us has a guarantee that we’ll not witness the other one practicing theirs.

I think he wore his Elksucker sockpuppet out.

Bottom line is, people here are tired of Maser and his games.

TROOF

Non Christian’s worry about the church infecting the state.

Christians worry about the state infecting the church.

Both are valid positions.

God is not a tyrant and will force himself on no man. Christ’s blood was poured out for all of mankind. No government controlling how taxes are collected, bridges built, and militaries trained should also be determining how I or anyone else should worship. With that in mind, Christian values based on God’s natural law (which is how the founding fathers were operating - I think 30+ of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were ordained Protestant ministers and they were pretty much in agreement with the Deists they were signing alongside) should and must prevent perverse teachings such as honor killings and child marriage in a civilized society.

That's not really it. The First Amendment to the Constitution has two distinct clauses, referred to in common parlance as the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause. While the Establishment Clause keeps the government from declaring a national religion, the Free Exercise Clause allows people to believe whatever they want to believe.



So, while you are correct that it does not say in literal language that there is a separation of church and state, it does get there in an indirect way. The Founding Fathers were pretty clever in saying a lot in very few words.

We want no heathen asswholes forced into our ranks.

Now take those heathen dimocraps, they will take aa',s, heathens, muzzies, zeros, Jell0s, calledumbs, dogs, cats, cartoon characters, snakes, vipers and rats. And dead people.

Slavery was a cultural norm in this country, apparently practiced by some alleged Christians, until about 160 years ago. If we had kept that as a cultural norm, would that be OK with you?