some of us wouldnt drive a toyota if they were free. there are still a few real americans left.
Just curious... Would you rather have:
> A Toyota Tundra made in San Antonio TX? Or a Dodge Ram heche en Mexico? > A Toyota Corolla made in Blue Springs MS? Or a Chevy Aveo made in South Korea? > A Toyota Camry made in Georgetown KY? Or a Ford Mustang that does not have enough U.S. content to be labeled "Made In America"?
The single largest cost going into the manufacture of a vehicle is Labor $$$'s. I will support the companies that spend their Labor $$$'s on the American worker...
anything but a toyota ,weve been feeding the japs way to long
Silverados made in Mexico, Canada and US depending on model. Fords made in US and Mexico Ram made in US(new 1500) and Mexico(classic) Toyota US made with probably more US components then any of the other 3.
One of Dad's favorite comments had quite a ring of truth to it- - - -"Diesels are just like sex- - - - -highly overrated and stinky!"
Listen to this man
Jeebus.....that makes three of you that are wrong.
Other than a little time out for Uncle Sam, I have been in the heavy equipment repair business for a half century plus. The reputation for longevity, reliability, and thusly economy...was made on the design and engineering of industrial engines. Very heavy engines, with lousy power to weight ratios. But, they ran forever, with minimal maintenance, often in marine and power generation at full rated load. I personally maintained engines that were still reliable at 28,000 hours of near full load service. That is about 1,680,000 miles equivalent. Think about that. So what happened to light truck engines, why such a relatively short life, so many stories of expensive component failure, and in many cases, basic failures of cranks, blocks, heads? Well, I think it was sales departments at the big automakers. The first big gas shortage, 1977, GM puts the 5.7 "diesel" in the Oldsmobile, 1979 Ford puts the International IDI engine in pickups...and the rest is history, but the damn toy diesels never got much better. More power out of already weak designs, lower power to weight ratio's...all at the cost of reliability and longevity. In trucking service, industrial quality engines routinely run 750,000 miles. In toy diesels, guys start bragging at less than half that, in the meantime, they have replaced a turbo or two, rebuilt the injection system and replaced the head gaskets. Large fleet mail contractors keeping track of costs down to the penny determined long ago, there is no financial benefit in toy diesels...they would need to run trouble free for 500,000 miles to break even. And that's before diesel became more expensive than gasoline. Love your toy diesels, it's fine with me, but they don't pencil out.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
There's something about a 22:1 compression ratio that makes little Diesels destroy themselves pretty quickly. Lightweight parts, high RPM, and turbocharging all combine to put more stress on them than they can stand long term. First generation GM Diesel V8's had a nasty habit of stretching thecylinder head bolts and leaking coolant between the block and the head- - - -it was actually possible to see the heads bouncing up and down on the block with the engine idling. Cummins, Cat, Detroit, and other full grown Diesels are a completely different ball game. The original compression ignition engine designed back in the late 1800's was intended to burn powdered coal- - - - -the engine exploded and nearly killed the inventor. He re-engineered it to run on lightweight oil.
One of Dad's favorite comments had quite a ring of truth to it- - - -"Diesels are just like sex- - - - -highly overrated and stinky!"
Listen to this man
Jeebus.....that makes three of you that are wrong.
Other than a little time out for Uncle Sam, I have been in the heavy equipment repair business for a half century plus. The reputation for longevity, reliability, and thusly economy...was made on the design and engineering of industrial engines. Very heavy engines, with lousy power to weight ratios. But, they ran forever, with minimal maintenance, often in marine and power generation at full rated load. I personally maintained engines that were still reliable at 28,000 hours of near full load service. That is about 1,680,000 miles equivalent. Think about that. So what happened to light truck engines, why such a relatively short life, so many stories of expensive component failure, and in many cases, basic failures of cranks, blocks, heads? Well, I think it was sales departments at the big automakers. The first big gas shortage, 1977, GM puts the 5.7 "diesel" in the Oldsmobile, 1979 Ford puts the International IDI engine in pickups...and the rest is history, but the damn toy diesels never got much better. More power out of already weak designs, lower power to weight ratio's...all at the cost of reliability and longevity. In trucking service, industrial quality engines routinely run 750,000 miles. In toy diesels, guys start bragging at less than half that, in the meantime, they have replaced a turbo or two, rebuilt the injection system and replaced the head gaskets. Large fleet mail contractors keeping track of costs down to the penny determined long ago, there is no financial benefit in toy diesels...they would need to run trouble free for 500,000 miles to break even. And that's before diesel became more expensive than gasoline. Love your toy diesels, it's fine with me, but they don't pencil out.
The mileage is much lower than that.
It's closer to 250,000.
If you need or want a diesel...they are absolutely worth it.
You don't buy a diesel f250 because you think it is a smaller C12.
You don't expect 1.2mm miles and are disappointed at 350k.
You buy it because it's better than what's available in the same chassis but with gas power. It lasts longer than that 351W or 5.4 Triton. You put 300k on it, hard and still have something compared to the gas peers at the same mileage.
Average mpg isn't the only way to calculate ROI when comparing diesel vs gas in sub class 4 trucks.
Diesels pull cshit down the road without much strain. That’s my favorite thing about them. My 2004 will pull a 20’ gooseneck, tractor, implements, 80 miles an hour, no sweat. Gassers suck when it comes to pulling unless you want to get 3 miles to the gallon.
You don't buy a diesel f250 because you think it is a smaller C12.
You don't expect 1.2mm miles and are disappointed at 350k.
You buy it because it's better than what's available in the same chassis but with gas power. It lasts longer than that 351W or 5.4 Triton. You put 300k on it, hard and still have something compared to the gas peers at the same mileage.
Average mpg isn't the only way to calculate ROI when comparing diesel vs gas in sub class 4 trucks.
Cost per mile...the ONLY number that matters in the business world. I deliberately didn't mention UPS, 108,000 package vehicles operating a day. Their cost per mile numbers are good solid data. Locally, UPS is using 2007 F250 4x4, 6.2L gassers. The one on my route has 560,000 on the odometer. The driver is a close friend, he got the current pickup with 320,000 on it, it is up to 560k now, no breakdowns, routine maintenance. Every day it goes about 220 miles, from 2,600 ft elev to 5,100 ft, to 3,000 ft, to 6,000 ft to 1,100 ft, to 5,900 ft, to 3,000 ft back to 2,600 ft at the barn. If UPS could save a penny a mile, they would run diesel, but they don't. And not to mention the famous "Hot Trucks" running oilfield service are little 4.7L Toyota gassers with over a million miles each. What you WANT...trumps all, but cost per mile? Gassers, the clear winner.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
UPS has amazing telematics on their equipment but the average UPS package truck isn't towing much of a load and honestly, isn't carrying much weight. Gross weights just 16-24k lbs. Gas works for them on a cpm basis. They also can see purchased contract or house service on those vehicles whenever they need it.
Package delivery operating like a hub and spoke from the FC/DC. Linehaul moves within network are moved on diesel class 8 tractors who, when they have problems may not have access to the same facilities. There's a reason why changes in class 8 is from diesel to hydrogen, electric or CNG and not gas.
For the average person, a gas truck probably makes the most sense.
If you buy a diesel for the cool factor..... well that's not very smart. Now if you buy a diesel for a specific reason, that makes sense. For example my Ram diesel hauls my truck camper while towing my boat, or side x side or flat towing the Jeep. In the mountains. The exhaust brake alone is worth the price of admission. Now the Jeep diesel was also chosen for a specific reason. The diesel option came with a lower final drive ratio and heavy duty axles. I put a lift kit on it with 35" tires, for flotation and ground clearance. With the gas motor I would have had to re-gear front and rear, $2500. My fuel mileage would have dropped to low teens. And my axles would be marginal strength for the larger tires. The diesel spins the big tires like nothing, fuel mileage is mid 20's mpg. Off road the low rpm torque will move me over obstacles with ease. I am talking Moab & Rubicon style trails.
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
If you buy a diesel for the cool factor..... well that's not very smart. Now if you buy a diesel for a specific reason, that makes sense. For example my Ram diesel hauls my truck camper while towing my boat, or side x side or flat towing the Jeep. In the mountains. The exhaust brake alone is worth the price of admission. Now the Jeep diesel was also chosen for a specific reason. The diesel option came with a lower final drive ratio and heavy duty axles. I put a lift kit on it with 35" tires, for flotation and ground clearance. With the gas motor I would have had to re-gear front and rear, $2500. My fuel mileage would have dropped to low teens. And my axles would be marginal strength for the larger tires. The diesel spins the big tires like nothing, fuel mileage is mid 20's mpg. Off road the low rpm torque will move me over obstacles with ease. I am talking Moab & Rubicon style trails.
If I could get an F250 diesel that sounded like the old 2 stroke Detroits - that would be cool enough to own one.
Lol
I get it and agree. Man, I remember when 35's were considered "big" and now you can get them on factory rigs.
