Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 250-3000 for African Game?

So we've read before about how Charles Newton emphatically did NOT believe the 22HP was a moose (or tiger) cartridge, but rather a woodchuck cartridge that would work fine with an occasional perfect shot at a whitetail or black bear.

But how about the 250-3000? Was it a "big game" cartridge? What was the opinion a few years after it was introduced?

Well.. here's Charles Cottar answering some detractors with his opinion on the 250-3000, from a 1922 issue of Outdoor Life.

https://frontierpartisans.com/17060/american-frontiersman-african-dynasty/

I love the part about "Not every man who comes to this country to shoot lions is a rifle shot, and many have little real inclination to hunt big game. They are carried away by the romance of the thing..."

Good link!

Staying on the "250-3000 African" theme - it would appear a mystery is revealed in that posted link.

The shooter of the Savage 1920 rifle is seemingly identified as Mike Cottar:

Somebody got a little defensive.

On the man-cave wall, the stuff that dreams are made of:



Early Savage 1920 250-3000 with a broken stock, muzzle turned for a suppressor.

I'd say he got ticked off for being called a liar, rather than just being defensive. The man didn't just write about stuff.. he actually did it.

Another classic with Cottar in it.

Weird.. image isn't showing up. Very odd... Gorilla Ad

I'm thinking this should become a new competitive event at the Olympics! What a great picture. A classic old Indian cycle and a 1920 Savage.

Or an event at Rendezvous! Joe Brady has a Harley, and we all have .250's! (Sadly, no gorillas or lions to be found in Pennsylvania.)

IMO: plains game for sure with a .250-3000, dangerous beasts that can eat or stomp you, not so much.

Interesting time in history.
Sportsman had been using spitzer bullets for ~25 years.
Newton experimented with many more bullets & calibers from 22 Newton 90 gr. bullet to 40 Newton 300 gr. bullet and lots in between.
Pretty sure he understood and continued to understand the relationships of bullet size, speed and power. Also killing game vs. stinging game...just like us.

No thank you.

Outdoor Life editor responding to Charles Cottar's letter. Apparently a number of folks questioning Cottar's tales of using the 250-3000.

I like this response..

This stuff reminds me of the seemingly age old argument about what caliber for what game. I have a cousin who, when a teenager, shot two deer with a 22LR. Also one of the record whitetails was taken with a 25-20. Can it be done? Of course it can. Does that make either of those rounds a good deer cartridge? No it doesn't, at least in my opinion. Every good shooter has an off day, gets affected by environmental conditions, etc. and can end up missing or worse crippling or causing a slow painful death for an animal.

Also when this stuff was written, wouldn't they have been shooting 87gr bullets? I wouldn't even shoot a whitetail with one of those, unless I had to, let alone dangerous game.

Remember that smokeless powders and small bore guns had only been around 30 years or so by the time of this article. It was very much an argument about what cartridges were suitable for what game.

Would I have wanted to go with a 250-3000 in 1915 to shoot lions? Probably not.. but there weren't a ton of better options. A 30-30? 32-40? 25-35? 38-55? Ehhh.. it was early days. When did the Winchester 1895 become available in 30-06? That'd probably have been my choice prior to the 300 Savage being introduced.

Here's the preceding letter from Fry in which he argues that only the old large bore guns are suitable for Africa.

Rory, Thank you for finding and bringing those articles to us. That history is lost to the new generations. I read Ruark as a boy in the 50's, his hunts with Mike Cottar and his ways with words describing Africa. I liked the part where Charles Cottar said he shot Askins trophys, I read that years ago somewhere but here it is from the horse's mouth. Thanks again.

Mike

I remember seeing old advertisements for the Ruger 44 semi auto rifle with a guy posing with a dead gorilla

The old 87gr Speer Hot Cors flatten deer. My old man used them for several years in 25-06 before switching to 100gr Nosler Solid bases because they were easier to find.

Did you read all of what I said?

Saying a 25-20 and a 250 loaded with an 87 grainer are in the same class is sorta like saying a steam locomotive and a space shuttle are the same thing.