To the original question, those who take a premillennial, futurist view of Revelation, would say the Rapture is imminent, the very next prophetical doctrine to take place. And I agree, the trajectories we see in our culture, our government’s overreach, general corruption, reflecting our corporate rejecting of a moral basis for what we do, is very telling. Not in a good way.
Regardless, our hope is in Jesus Christ.
Throughout the NT we see that Christ’s second coming is eminent. The Apostle Paul assures Christian’s in Thessalonica that He had not come yet showing there was fear there that He had. What we are seeing in the US today is clearly a general sign of the times which have existed since our Lord ascended. His return is eminent, praise His life giving name. On this I know we agree my brother!
As to the allusion to rapture in II Thess that passage can only be read to suggest that if one holds as a foundational presupposition that there are two peoples of God. If one rids himself of that false position the passage can be read as being about the second coming with no loopty loop at the bottom of the arrow .
As our dear brother the apostle John prayed, “Come Lord Jesus!!”
I don’t believe in a “Rapture”. And, we might not ever know. Those who believe a day of ascension will arrive, yet end up living out their lives until death visits them. Could say the Rapture didn’t happen in their lifetime. What happens to a believers faith, if they, or no one is taken? Here they find themselves living and suffering through everything the Rapture Story say’s they’ll miss by ascending, along with everyone else on the planet. Will those of belief and faith, lose it and feel forsaken?
I hear ya’ man. I reckon’ it’s possible for some to maybe lose their faith over what you’ve described above. But if they do, they might be losing their faith over something that they never shoulda put their faith in in the first place.
Peter’s faith, as well as the faith of all of Jesus’ original and earliest followers wasn’t based on the rapture. It was based on an event, an event that they saw with their own eyes. It wasn’t based on anything else.
Does it make sense that our faith should be based on the very same thing that their faith was based on…?
Antlers, thank you!
Yes - I would say following the same beliefs of those who walked with Jesus and saw firsthand accounts would better serve us in preparation for anything that is to come. Good or bad.
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Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
I don’t believe in a “Rapture”. And, we might not ever know. Those who believe a day of ascension will arrive, yet end up living out their lives until death visits them. Could say the Rapture didn’t happen in their lifetime. What happens to a believers faith, if they, or no one is taken? Here they find themselves living and suffering through everything the Rapture Story say’s they’ll miss by ascending, along with everyone else on the planet. Will those of belief and faith, lose it and feel forsaken?
I hear ya’ man. I reckon’ it’s possible for some to maybe lose their faith over what you’ve described above. But if they do, they might be losing their faith over something that they never shoulda put their faith in in the first place.
Peter’s faith, as well as the faith of all of Jesus’ original and earliest followers wasn’t based on the rapture. It was based on an event, an event that they saw with their own eyes. It wasn’t based on anything else.
Does it make sense that our faith should be based on the very same thing that their faith was based on…?
You trying to keep this thread going for a few more pages?
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
I’m enjoying the discourse and hope I don’t seem arrogant. It’s hard to know someone’s posture or tone in a forum like this. I am a follower of Jesus walking in the light of Scripture to the best of my ability. I don’t mean to be rude or condescending to anyone.
As to the word translated “meet”, I am in total agreement with your understanding of that word and it’s usage. Where we differ is in Who is coming to get whom.
We aren’t “catching Jesus away”. It’s the exact opposite. He’s coming get us to take us to a place He prepared. We just need oil in our lamps.
I believe in a pre-tribulation Rapture because it’s what I see Scripturally. I have very close friends I love and respect who differ in the timing.
As to the opening post: I see the Rapture within a decade. If it hasn’t happened and I die in the faith, I’m ok with that. I’ll rise when He calls.
To see the evil applauded and promoted by folks claiming Christ, the “trans” stuff, elected officials so full of a lawless spirit, the technology needed for the events as foretold, the attitude to promote and establish the rule of Antichrist… it can’t be far off now.
The longer we stay here the more I believe we’d better be ready for more hardship than most American teaching allows.
I would say following the same beliefs of those who walked with Jesus and saw firsthand accounts would better serve us in preparation for anything that is to come.
I would say following the same beliefs of those who walked with Jesus and saw firsthand accounts would better serve us in preparation for anything that is to come.
I think this is the very best post that I’ve seen in a very long time. Thank You for it.
I would say following the same beliefs of those who walked with Jesus and saw firsthand accounts would better serve us in preparation for anything that is to come.
I think this is the very best post that I’ve seen in a very long time. Thank You for it.
I’m simple in my beliefs. I have always tried to stay close to what those who walked, saw, and wrote about Christ as a guide for my personal direction.
I will add, while failing daily and by each minute to live in the potential I was given.
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Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
I’m simple in my beliefs. I have always tried to stay close to what those who walked, saw, and wrote about Christ as a guide for my personal direction.
That’s a pretty flippin’ good North Star to be guided by.
Originally Posted by Beaver10
I will add, while failing daily and by each minute to live in the potential I was given.
Those who believe a day of ascension will arrive, yet end up living out their lives until death visits them. Could say the Rapture didn’t happen in their lifetime.
What happens to a believers faith, if they, or no one is taken? Here they find themselves living and suffering through everything the Rapture Story say’s they’ll miss by ascending, along with everyone else on the planet.
Will those of belief and faith, lose it and feel forsaken?
IDK 🤷🏽♀️
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Crickets 🦗
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Beaver10: Good afternoon my friend, I hope the day's behaving for you and your projects are going well.
We put the final touches on a Remington 700 stock which I modified to fit a Husky 1600 in 9.3x62 this morning so I'm just in here before starting another repair on the never ending list.
I'd suggest that antlers answer makes a bunch of sense to me, but as we've discussed previously I'm the farthest thing from a Biblical scholar there is.
Interestingly I have a couple family members who are actual Biblical scholars though Beave, one could read Greek and Hebrew texts and got a Doctor of Divinity even. He wasn't big on a lot of end times teachings then or now as far as I'm aware for a number of reasons that made sense to me the last time we chatted about it - which was decades back to be clear.
Personally I've long held the belief that I really and truly should attempt to live today as if it's my last one, you know?
We had a wonderful pastor - grew up on an Oregon dairy actually now that I think about it - but he was big on practical uses of our faith and that to me makes the most sense.
I am exceedingly cognizant that one's faith and making sense don't necessarily belong in the same sentence either Beaver, but nonetheless that's where I've ended up.
While I'm not sure I've answered your question or not really, that's where I'm at today - hopefully being useful to someone, somewhere - and not too concerned whether I get a ride on a cosmic vacuum or not.
To the original question, those who take a premillennial, futurist view of Revelation, would say the Rapture is imminent, the very next prophetical doctrine to take place. And I agree, the trajectories we see in our culture, our government’s overreach, general corruption, reflecting our corporate rejecting of a moral basis for what we do, is very telling. Not in a good way.
Regardless, our hope is in Jesus Christ.
Throughout the NT we see that Christ’s second coming is eminent. The Apostle Paul assures Christian’s in Thessalonica that He had not come yet showing there was fear there that He had. What we are seeing in the US today is clearly a general sign of the times which have existed since our Lord ascended. His return is eminent, praise His life giving name. On this I know we agree my brother!
As to the allusion to rapture in II Thess that passage can only be read to suggest that if one holds as a foundational presupposition that there are two peoples of God. If one rids himself of that false position the passage can be read as being about the second coming with no loopty loop at the bottom of the arrow .
As our dear brother the apostle John prayed, “Come Lord Jesus!!”
The tradition of amillennialism of the RCC has its roots in the Alexandrian School of theology — the spiritualization (it’s all or mostly metaphor or symbology) of the scriptures — with Origen and especially Augustine in the early 4th century AD, laying that foundation in what would become the RCC in 1000 AD. One millennium plus from Augustine, the Reformers, Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin didn’t even bother with going into eschatology. They thought Revelation was second rate scripture or didn’t even belong in the canon of scripture. We should all still be reforming today by judging tradition against the scriptures.
Thus many Protestant denominations, still carrying that bias forward, fail to address the simple, most literal meaning of the scriptures, Genesis and Revelation being chief examples . Seminaries now teach students their particular denomination’s dogma or doctrine so it’s rare for a seminarian to come out of school now and have any clear view of Old Testament prophecy much of which looks forward to fulfillment in Revelation.
Whatever our differences on this subject, the overall thrust of Revelation is the sovereignty of God and the total victory of our Lord Jesus Christ when He comes the second time as the Lion of Judah, in judgement, and not the simple, humble innocent lamb to be slain.
From what I've seen, advocates of a rapture will squeeze the scriptures until they squeak trying to wring a rapture out of them but no one has ever showed me a verse that really says there will be one. Most of the verses I've been given are unrelated to a rapture. I would LOVE to be raptured out of here before things get lively but I can't see anywhere in the Bible that it will happen.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
How long until the rapture? This world is getting worse daily.... I no longer have faith in man, my faith lies in the Lord Jesus Christ..
Amen Thanks for bringing that subject up, especially this last statement.
Here's a documentary produced by a top documentary film maker who happens to be Baptist in case you are wondering.
The perspective challenged my long held beliefs on the subject. That's OK because I've been more interested in clear accurate Bible teaching than traditional viewpoints of those I have been affiliated with. I don't know if anyone will agree 💯% with everything in here, but I think it's good for thought. Of all the movies and videos on the subject, this is the best I've heard.
How long until the rapture? This world is getting worse daily, pedophilia is acceptable, homosexuality is normal, interracial couples everywhere, politicians pushing for a world war, WE WONT WIN. I no longer have faith in man, my faith lies in the Lord Jesus Christ. If you are not a believer please take these end days, to accept him into your heart as your Lord and savior.
The Jesus I have a personal relationship will not be happy about your interracial comment. Better get that sorted out sooner rather than later.
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