How long until the rapture? This world is getting worse daily, pedophilia is acceptable, homosexuality is normal, interracial couples everywhere, politicians pushing for a world war, WE WONT WIN. I no longer have faith in man, my faith lies in the Lord Jesus Christ. If you are not a believer please take these end days, to accept him into your heart as your Lord and savior.

No one knows the Day nor the Hour …
Turn off you Devices..

True............... but HE did tell us the 'generation'.........

Is 'Rapture' actually found in Scripture??

Go out to the parking lot

And you get in your car and drive real far

And you drive all night and then you see a light

And it comes right down and it lands on the ground

And out comes a man from Mars

And you try to run but he's got a gun

And he shoots you dead and he eats your head

And then you're in the man from Mars

You go out at night eatin' cars

You eat Cadillacs, Lincolns too

Mercurys and Subaru

And you don't stop, you keep on eatin' cars





Sorry - flashback.

Is it possible that many evangelicals interpret the passage as relating to the end of time, instead of just being His remarkable prediction of the destruction of the Jewish Temple in amazing detail exactly as it happened some 40 years later…?

Yes!

'...as it was in the days of Noah...' they didn't know the day nor the hour, but they were not CLUELESS.....

REV describes the event as '...a woman in labor...' you may not know the day nor the hour, but you also are not clueless......

'...ALL these things will happen to THIS generation...' a first century generation.... they didn't know the day nor the hour, and they also, were not clueless..........

Don't get upset with me (not you antlers), I didn't write it!

antlers,

I do not believe that is possible. The "catching away" of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 taken in agreement with 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and Revelation 4:1, remembering Revelation 4:1 is at the end of the church age, or dispensation of grace, the beginning of Jacob's sorrow; says the Rapture is the only reasonable answer.

I am looking for the Appearing any day now. The Lord in His infinite mercy is allowing billions of souls more chances to repent. But I believe we'll hear a trumpet very soon!

Blessings on you all!!!

There's nothing in the Bible about a rapture. The idea originated about 200 years ago and was rapidly spread by Church of England preacher John Darby. The Bible says that when Jesus comes back, he'll be here to rule, not to turn around and haul a bunch of believers back to heaven.

Debra Harry, AKA Blondie that was a ways back lol

No it doesn’t

Rock Chuck,
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58, and Revelation 4:1 describe the same event that immediately precedes the Great Tribulation.

We won't find the English word "rapture" in the KJV Bible. But we do find the event. The Greek word used to describe the catching away of the saints in 1 Thessalonians 4 is "harpazo". It means catching away, seizing by force.

Jesus is coming to "catch away" His children! It will be in the twinkling of an eye, time indivisible. Scripture is full of facts about this.

John Darby didn't invent the Rapture 200 years ago. Jesus did before time began! Psalm 119:89

John 14:1-3 Jesus said He is preparing a place for us. He WILL come again to receive us unto Himself. Why? To shield us from the wrath to come. This world will be judged. Sinners will be damned. The earth and everything in it will burn with a fervent heat. THEN He will bring down a new Heaven.

Whether living in body or sleeping in the grave, I am going when He calls!!!

I LOVE JESUS!!!

Doug, Daniel talks about a Kingdom established in the days of the Roman Kings, what is/was that Kingdom that GOD established?

Well, I hope you folks figure this thing out.

I subscribe to the Mac Truck theory. If you step out in front of one, your time came, OR you can wait and find out. What we know for sure is this life ends.

“In my Father’s house there are many mansions. If it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you, and if I go to prepare a place for you I will come again to receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also.”

Might have missed some punctuation or paraphrased a bit but that’s the gist of it. If I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ I’ll make it there and see how the godly live. There will be a place for me, though it’ll probably be on the shady side of heaven. Don’t know if I’ll see Jesus here or there but I’ll see him one way or the other. I’d sorta like to see him arrive with trumpets blaring just to know the logistics of what the folk in biblical time were trying to say. But that matters little compared to knowing there’s another side of life. Maybe there’ll even be a shooting range there where nobody screws up. If there is I’ll see y’all there.

While I agree with the assessments that our world is in a poor moral condition, I believe that we are a long way from Jesus’ return.

In Matthew 24:3, the disciples asked Jesus, “… what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?” Jesus’ answer was lengthy, filling verses 4-14. A key pre-requisite is defined in verse 14: “And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” (Scripture quotes from ESV)

Looking at the website, joshuaproject.net, there are 17,433 people groups in the world. Of these, 7,418 are unreached - 42.6%.

We are a long way from fulfilling the pre-requisite of Matthew 24:14.

Paul seems to believe that the Gospel of the Kingdom was preached in all the world. He says as much in 4 different places:

“…the gospel, which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and increasing…” [Col. 1:5-6]

“…not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven…” [Col. 1:23]

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for ‘Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” [Romans 10:16-18]

“Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith…” [Romans 16:25-26]

So, according to Paul, the Gospel WAS preached “in the whole world”, “in all creation”, “to all the earth”, “to the ends of the world” and was “made known to all nations.”

Funny how the "whole world" (or similar terminology) can mean such different things depending on the circumstances.

When Jesus was predicting the sacking and destruction of the Jewish Temple…and pretty much of Jerusalem itself…Matthew, Mark, and Luke all three record Jesus as saying that this generation will not pass away until all of these things take place. And we do know that on August 6 in 70 AD that the Romans pretty much annihilated Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple.

The historian Josephus saw it happen with his own eyes, and he gave a pretty bleak description of it in his work, ‘The Wars of the Jews or History of the Destruction of Jerusalem’. Book VII, Chapter 1.1

Is it possible that the this generation that Jesus referred to in each of the three Gospels listed above mean specifically the time period in which the above events clearly happened…?

Crappy Hamster sock puppet?

I don’t believe in a “Rapture”.

And, we might not ever know.

Those who believe a day of ascension will arrive, yet end up living out their lives until death visits them. Could say the Rapture didn’t happen in their lifetime.

What happens to a believers faith, if they, or no one is taken? Here they find themselves living and suffering through everything the Rapture Story say’s they’ll miss by ascending, along with everyone else on the planet.

Will those of belief and faith, lose it and feel forsaken?

IDK 🤷🏽‍♀️

🦫

Look at that word 'meet' in 1 Thes 4:17. The original Greek word is only used 2 other places in the NT. One is the parable of the 10 virgins, the other is when Paul was approaching Rome and the believers went out to meet him. In the parable, the virgins met the groom and escorted him to the wedding, not back to his home. When Paul was met near Rome, they escorted him to to Rome, not back to where he came from. In both cases, they acted as sort of an honor guard. They did NOT turn the person around and go back to where he came from. Likewise, the Christians will meet Jesus in the air and escort him to his destination - earth, not back to his place of origin, heaven.

The other 2 passages have nothing whatever to do with a rapture. Cor is talking about how we'll get a new body but it doesn't say anything about going back to heaven. Rev is talking to John only, not all believers.

To the original question, those who take a premillennial, futurist view of Revelation, would say the Rapture is imminent, the very next prophetical doctrine to take place. And I agree, the trajectories we see in our culture, our government’s overreach, general corruption, reflecting our corporate rejecting of a moral basis for what we do, is very telling. Not in a good way.

And, to my brother from another mother, efw 😀, you are technically correct. But it could be said it is strongly alluded to in 2 Thess. and other places along with the fact the church is “absent” in Revelation from somewhere near the end of ch 3 until finally mentioned again at the end of the book.

Regardless, our hope is in Jesus Christ.

Veterans of the Crusades were given a pin in recognition of their service - a raptured duck.

Many people try to make something of the Christians not being mentioned in the tribulation. Well, the USA isn't mentioned but it'll be there. Cambodia isn't mentioned, nor is Chili, but they'll be there. The tribulation is against the non-believers but it doesn't say the believers aren't there. They just aren't tribulated.

Scripture does mention the rapture as being “caught up”. The Greek word for caught up is harpazo and means to snatch away, which is what will happen to believers in the rapture.

1 Thess 4:17 says,
“Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

If believers are alive at that time, we will literally go up in the air to meet Jesus. Jesus will meet us in the air because Heaven is our destiny.

The rapture is part of the doctrine of the resurrection and occurs in a sequence.
1 Cor 15:20, 22-23, 51-52, and 1 Thess 4:13-18

The rapture is a separate event from the Day of the Lord (His wrath) and Jesus’ return to earth. The rapture is the resurrection of the body of Christ (the Church), which spares believers from His coming wrath on earth.

Believers who have died will be raised first and given resurrection bodies. Then believers who are alive will be caught up and given resurrection bodies in exchange for their earthly bodies. Both groups will be snatched away or caught up to be with the Lord forever.

Believers who are living will be snatched away and will not experience God’s wrath (the tribulation).

We are told in scripture to proclaim the rapture to comfort one another until Jesus comes. 1 Thess 4:18

…..and what we are seeing is still not as bad as what has seen during the Roman Empire, Corinth etc.

I don’t wait for a rapture for God to take me out of this world. With the Apostles and early church I await the return of Christ and the new Heaven and new earth.

That is my thought too. Back when this was written it was customary for the people to go out and meet the army outside of the city limits after a military victory and escort them back into the city to celebrate.

The Bible only speaks of one 2nd coming not two second comings.

Revelation 6:9-11

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"

11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both [the number of] their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they [were], was completed.

Muffin - you make good points with the scriptures you reference from Paul’s writings. I cannot biblically rebut your point. But I maintain my opinion. 🙂

There is belief that the 12 disciples (excluding Judas, including Matthias) traveled extensively across Europe/Asia/Africa to spread the gospel. I do find it hard to imagine that during Paul’s lifetime the gospel journeyed to the Americas or Australia

Who knows?????🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

No telling how many the self appointed "2nd Son of God" has...
🥴🥴🥴😄😄😄

before this turns into hundreds of pages of philosophical discuusion...

dont worry, none of youz fugks are disappearing to anywhere.
ALL the participants of this Den of Inequity are headed straight to the burning fires.
Bank on it.
Carry On.

Crickets 🦗


🦫

Prey tell. What is wrong with interracial marriage?


Mathew 24 indicates we are seven years from the rapture unit the Tribulation starts.

Where are the two prophets in Revelation 11? We get to see them.

Good post.

Missed it by nearly two millennia.

Christ's kingdom never ends...we are in the new heavens and new earth.

You must interpret the writings in the context that the writers and original recipients understood. Audience relevance!

ie entire world really means the Roman Empire.

Heaven and Earth means Priesthood and the People of God.

Read the first verses of the Revelation and tell me that letter would have any meaning to the 7 churches it was written to, if the events were not going to happen for 2,000 years.

C'mon man!!

Jiminy says "Chirp Chirp"

Thought the Jehovah's Witnesses had this all sewed up for themselves lock, stock, and barrel???

Figuring no one wants to answer an obvious question on ones faith if they are wrong.

Jiminy,

Beav says, find a worm.

🦫

I hear ya’ man. I reckon’ it’s possible for some to maybe lose their faith over what you’ve described above. But if they do, they might be losing their faith over something that they never shoulda put their faith in in the first place.

Peter’s faith, as well as the faith of all of Jesus’ original and earliest followers wasn’t based on the rapture. It was based on an event, an event that they saw with their own eyes. It wasn’t based on anything else.

Does it make sense that our faith should be based on the very same thing that their faith was based on…?

Throughout the NT we see that Christ’s second coming is eminent. The Apostle Paul assures Christian’s in Thessalonica that He had not come yet showing there was fear there that He had. What we are seeing in the US today is clearly a general sign of the times which have existed since our Lord ascended. His return is eminent, praise His life giving name. On this I know we agree my brother!

As to the allusion to rapture in II Thess that passage can only be read to suggest that if one holds as a foundational presupposition that there are two peoples of God. If one rids himself of that false position the passage can be read as being about the second coming with no loopty loop at the bottom of the arrow .

As our dear brother the apostle John prayed, “Come Lord Jesus!!”

Antlers, thank you!

Yes - I would say following the same beliefs of those who walked with Jesus and saw firsthand accounts would better serve us in preparation for anything that is to come. Good or bad.

🦫

You trying to keep this thread going for a few more pages?

I was told by a true believer that it would be Jan.1,2000


I musta missed it....

I’m enjoying the discourse and hope I don’t seem arrogant. It’s hard to know someone’s posture or tone in a forum like this. I am a follower of Jesus walking in the light of Scripture to the best of my ability. I don’t mean to be rude or condescending to anyone.

As to the word translated “meet”, I am in total agreement with your understanding of that word and it’s usage. Where we differ is in Who is coming to get whom.

We aren’t “catching Jesus away”. It’s the exact opposite. He’s coming get us to take us to a place He prepared. We just need oil in our lamps.

I believe in a pre-tribulation Rapture because it’s what I see Scripturally. I have very close friends I love and respect who differ in the timing.

As to the opening post: I see the Rapture within a decade. If it hasn’t happened and I die in the faith, I’m ok with that. I’ll rise when He calls.

To see the evil applauded and promoted by folks claiming Christ, the “trans” stuff, elected officials so full of a lawless spirit, the technology needed for the events as foretold, the attitude to promote and establish the rule of Antichrist… it can’t be far off now.

The longer we stay here the more I believe we’d better be ready for more hardship than most American teaching allows.

I did lose my dog on that same day.

🤷🏽‍♀️🦫

word

I think this is the very best post that I’ve seen in a very long time. Thank You for it.

I will take my leave now to allow this thread discussion to continue in peace.

🦫

I’m simple in my beliefs. I have always tried to stay close to what those who walked, saw, and wrote about Christ as a guide for my personal direction.

I will add, while failing daily and by each minute to live in the potential I was given.

🦫

That’s a pretty flippin’ good North Star to be guided by. Yeah, that’s a BIG club, and I’m in it with ya’.

IF, '...no man knows the day or the hour...' meaning we are clueless..


WHY then, would anyone ask the question?

Beaver10:
Good afternoon my friend, I hope the day's behaving for you and your projects are going well.

We put the final touches on a Remington 700 stock which I modified to fit a Husky 1600 in 9.3x62 this morning so I'm just in here before starting another repair on the never ending list.

I'd suggest that antlers answer makes a bunch of sense to me, but as we've discussed previously I'm the farthest thing from a Biblical scholar there is.

Interestingly I have a couple family members who are actual Biblical scholars though Beave, one could read Greek and Hebrew texts and got a Doctor of Divinity even. He wasn't big on a lot of end times teachings then or now as far as I'm aware for a number of reasons that made sense to me the last time we chatted about it - which was decades back to be clear.

Personally I've long held the belief that I really and truly should attempt to live today as if it's my last one, you know?

We had a wonderful pastor - grew up on an Oregon dairy actually now that I think about it - but he was big on practical uses of our faith and that to me makes the most sense.

I am exceedingly cognizant that one's faith and making sense don't necessarily belong in the same sentence either Beaver, but nonetheless that's where I've ended up.

While I'm not sure I've answered your question or not really, that's where I'm at today - hopefully being useful to someone, somewhere - and not too concerned whether I get a ride on a cosmic vacuum or not.

All the best to you all this weekend my friend.

Dwayne

I'll just trust Him.

The tradition of amillennialism of the RCC has its roots in the Alexandrian School of theology — the spiritualization (it’s all or mostly metaphor or symbology) of the scriptures — with Origen and especially Augustine in the early 4th century AD, laying that foundation in what would become the RCC in 1000 AD. One millennium plus from Augustine, the Reformers, Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin didn’t even bother with going into eschatology. They thought Revelation was second rate scripture or didn’t even belong in the canon of scripture. We should all still be reforming today by judging tradition against the scriptures.

Thus many Protestant denominations, still carrying that bias forward, fail to address the simple, most literal meaning of the scriptures, Genesis and Revelation being chief examples . Seminaries now teach students their particular denomination’s dogma or doctrine so it’s rare for a seminarian to come out of school now and have any clear view of Old Testament prophecy much of which looks forward to fulfillment in Revelation.

Whatever our differences on this subject, the overall thrust of Revelation is the sovereignty of God and the total victory of our Lord Jesus Christ when He comes the second time as the Lion of Judah, in judgement, and not the simple, humble innocent lamb to be slain.

Have a great weekend brother! 😊

From what I've seen, advocates of a rapture will squeeze the scriptures until they squeak trying to wring a rapture out of them but no one has ever showed me a verse that really says there will be one. Most of the verses I've been given are unrelated to a rapture. I would LOVE to be raptured out of here before things get lively but I can't see anywhere in the Bible that it will happen.

Amen
Thanks for bringing that subject up, especially this last statement.

Here's a documentary produced by a top documentary film maker who happens to be Baptist in case you are wondering.

The perspective challenged my long held beliefs on the subject. That's OK because I've been more interested in clear accurate Bible teaching than traditional viewpoints of those I have been affiliated with. I don't know if anyone will agree 💯% with everything in here, but I think it's good for thought.
Of all the movies and videos on the subject, this is the best I've heard.

Pan theory?

The Jesus I have a personal relationship will not be happy about your interracial comment. Better get that sorted out sooner rather than later.

I've always been told the Rapture can't take place till after Israel rebuilds the temple.

I'm told the Temple is prebuilt, waiting in storage.

Every generation believes the world is in such a state the end is imminent... every one... such is the never ending struggle of life.

Kent

You are correct, sir, There will be a rapture and I believe it is coming soon. But what is soon. Only a word, as is rapture.

Rapture is not a word that is found in Scripture. But it is used to describe a very biblical doctrine; the return of Christ and the gathering up of his elect. This doctrine is central to the hope that we have as believers, or should have. There are many passages throughout the NT that speak to it.

There are three passages in the New Testament that do provide us with explicit information about this event and over a dozen more.

Matthew 24:30-31 is a portion of Jesus’ teaching about his return. In this passage he says that all the peoples of the earth will see him coming in the clouds. And that with a trumpet call, he will send his angels to gather his elect from throughout the earth.

In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul defends the future resurrection of believers. And in verses 50-55 he describes what that will be like. It will happen in a moment, at the last trumpet. When the trumpet sounds, the dead will be raised, and the living believers will be changed.

The third passage is also from Paul and is in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. In this passage Paul is seeking to encourage the believers in Thessalonica concerning some of their members who had died. He assures them that the Lord will return from heaven, along with a trumpet call. And when that happens, the dead in Christ will be raised, and those still alive will be caught up together with them.

Maybe it all ready happened and none of you guys made the grade?

Really? Read: Deuteronomy 7:3-4. Jesus tells us the same thing in the NT. I'll pray for you.

Read Hebrews; there is no going back. That which the temple pointed to has been made manifest in our Lord.

Anything that teaches the necessity of a rebuilding of the temple is heretical.

[quote=mauserand9mm]Maybe it all ready happened and none of you guys made the grade?[/quote

Hahahaha Mate .. You too have been thrown into the Campfire for Eternity..
Your a Genius..

You should include Matthew 24:29. It tells us when people will see Jesus coming in the clouds.

2 Thessalonians tells us the apostasy must come first and people will see the anti-christ before Jesus returns.

Please support your position from the New Testament.

Matthew 24:29 refers to after the tribulation.

The rapture and the 2nd Advent are separate events, according to scripture.

One dog?
That was the whole rapture?
"All good dogs go to heaven", and it was just one?

Many days I wake up, look around and think that it may have already happened...

Hopefully sooner than later.

How do you leave verse 29 out of Jesus' conversation?

Verse 29 leads right into verse 30 and following.

DugE has done a pretty good job in his first few posts on this thread. The rapture or whatever you want to call it is imminent. Are you ready to meet him in the air? How will your sins be purged according to the Bible?

There is no rapture. That's a modern day heresy. Everyone who is alive when the tribulation starts will have to take their turn at a bite or two out of the schitt sandwich being served.







Yes.

It might be a bit presumptuous to think you know "when", when Jesus doesn't.

I don't know, and I don't feel the need to say one way or the other. What will happen is what's going to happen and I have to tend my own mitten til the end of my days. I'll know what I'm supposed to knowvwhen I am supposed to know it. That's good enough for me.

YMMV.

No one knows.

Anyone that claims to know is lying.

2-1/2 weeks.
Bank on it.

As to the interracial issue:
My wife and I both did some DNA testing where they tell you your ancestry. Well horrors, she is much whiter than me but showed a very small percentage of Nigerian ancestry with the rest being European. Surprisingly I turned out almost all European, Predominantly Scottish, but with a slight Jewish admixture. Both of my daughters have children with Native American genetics. My son by my first wife has Arab (Syrian) ancestry. What do you recommend? There has been some serious ethnic mixing going on. Can we be saved?

The OP never makes another post within this thread

Typical MO just fire up some Rubes and Boobs

Happy Camper type crap, drop and turd not flush, disappear.

Debate amongst yourselves

Tear it up “ricky D” El Rubo Uno

It seems to consistently work...

I am gutted you didn't like my squidbillies post.

Fugging gutted.....

Why is it you have this obsession with feces?

You are the one who likes to post literal pictures of your commode after you take a dump.

What I post is NOT crap. It's the gospel.
You'd do good to take heed to yourself.

Everything you post is crap...bullshit Bill.

It's the Pedo way apparently.

What you post about the Gospel is rooted in a theology of glory rather than a theology of the cross which truly brings into question if it is truly Gospel.

LOL!!!
Another desperate attempt at trying to regain a shred of credibilty on here by using one of his "deep cover" sockpuppets to bounce off of.
And of course one of his butt buddy Idol Anderson vids camoflaged behind a intro.....

Fuuucking pathetic...

Billy/ Crappy hamster/ barneybus/ cat piss smelling western juniper/ Theaveng/ padgetpotbelliedpig01

Take your slimy azz back to that schit covered floor cave where you belong....



🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Anything squidbillies is 👍👍👍👍

Anything!!!!
😁😁😁😁

Padgett01 is not a sock puppet for anyone on the fire he’s my son and I’ve been here for years. Met several other members bought and sold tons of stuff.

Ask and ye shall receive

Hold your breath and wait.

Really???
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔


Billy /Happy Camper is still a scumball either way!!!
No telling how many sockpuppets he has....

PS.

Im married to a Native American
Have 3 half breed daughters.

Geuss I'm going to hades huh???
👍👍😄😄👍👍👍🤣🤣🤣

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Wait one.

Happy Camper look at what you did.

You are toxic

Billy/Crappy Hamster the self appointed online "2nd Son of God" feeding his rubes....

🤣🤣🤣🤣😄😄😄🤣🤣🤣🤣

HAHAHAHA

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Which one of those hens is named Ricky D??

Dunno...
Don't care...
👍👍👍😄😄😄

It's the innerweb...

You can be anything you wanna be for some.
Fantasy and imagination are a terrible thing to waste..

Just look at Billy / crappy hamster.
That mutha fugga been on here since 2008 at the least as Barnabus. No telling how many layers to the rotten onion he has made on here.
Anyone that post to him or he post quotes is suspect at best in his bid for rehab on here.
Fugging deceiving azz Pariah is what he is.....

Yeah he’s my kid.

Never said anything about Happy Camper one way or the other, that said I have no issue with the man.

He didn’t say interracial was a sin, I never taught him that and neither did our church. What he was eluding too was how it’s promoted everywhere. You can watch tv, pick up a magazine or see an advertisement nowadays that doesn’t show an interracial couple. What I did teach him growing up was what I was taught, stick to our own race and religion. Lots less headaches that way in my opinion. YMMV

But Billy/ Crappy Hamster quotes scripture and is religious in his persona on here.

So that means he can lie his azz off, be caught at it numerous times
Be outright doxxed on who and what he is by being 100% tied to his sockpuppets via his electronic footprints he laid down as Barnabus in the classifieds.

And it's all seemingly acceptable by rubes on here...

Hmmmm........

Haha. I listen to this version of that one all the time.

He didn't call it a sin but it is in the same sentence with reference to a couple of perversions and war mongering.

Yeah he did in his mind and mine it’s outside of the norm.

Uh huh.....
No problem with him.....

Never read a Billy/ crappy Hamster story huh???

Ever read any of his hand of God intervention near death stories???

They are incredible!!!

Ever read his story when he was 8yrs old.
15 shots into 1 hole at 100 yds with a 98 mauser 8mm.
Incredible!!!!

🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Wasn't Jesus a bit "outside of the norm"??

Well good for you and your boy..
Who hasnt returned to the thread yet either.

And I just remembered this.


You have hit me out of the blue before months ago.
You were Someone I never even heard of.
IIRC it was Barnabus or Billy/ Crappy Hamster schit...

This schitt is striking me as odd.

Go fuuuck yourself....🖕🖕🖕🤣🤣🤣

Mine's 1/4 Mexican, you know, them natives from down south.

Has been called "La India, La India" by a little ol' Mexican lady in the store when she was younger and had thick black hair down past her waist.

Perhaps we'll meet wherever we end up due to marrying hot Native chicks?

I don’t remember hitting you out of the blue months ago, not really my way to treat folks. Your GFY is noted and a hearty GFY back to you Sir.

Geno
Honestly...
I just dont give a fuuuck about 6 day sinners and sunday winners.
I just like exposing and riding lying azz hyprocrites on here.

It's my thing...

Anyone find a post of mine where I have gone after any person of faith and belief on here like I have Bill Stallings/ Crappy Hamster.
Please post it up...
And him being a fake azz preacher " man of God" in chester SC was icing on the cake.
It's him...
Not religon....

Aint against religon or faith 1 bit
Except fuuucking Islam....

1st oldest profession the lying azz man of religon from the cave to today
2nd being a whore...

Those who cant do anything else.....
And the few rotten apples dont spoil the barrel in this case.
But the rotten apples need to be found and throw in the trash....



Oh.....
Billy/ Crappy Hamster is Billy Graham still burning in Hades like you said on here.
That was a good one.
How many on here turned a blind eye to that since he said that.


Some people on here have a broke azz moral compass.
Thats for fuuuucking sure.....

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

What, when and where is of little consequence. Everyone here is so confused about Christ and religion, they believe in resurrection, judgement and the millennium, yet they think when they die they will go to heaven and be with Christ, when the millennium hasn’t happened, no one has been judged let alone resurrected.

renegade.

yep, no problem with religious folks, or non-religious. Free to believe what one wants to believe. Kinda sorta one of the benefits of living in the US of A.

Would appreciate it if folks left it at that.

Yep....

For me it is dont push your stuff on me or judge me for what you believe in your particular faith.
Cause I already subscribe to god and dont need someone who cuts and bleeds like me telling me how to beleive in God.

Or lie your fuuucking azz off so much it comes natrual as part of your being.
Or fuuucking mock death using God in the lies.

Well what should I do now. I have been married 35 years to my wife and find out she has a little Nigerian blood. I never knew but it might explain her ability in certain aspects. My first wife I married at age 20 and the fact that she had Arab Syrian blood meant nothing to me although in some aspects I will say she had abilities that go over and above the average white girl.

Anyway now that I know, should I divorce my wife that I love very much and disown the "half breed" kids and our 5 grandchildren that have been further polluted with Native American blood? Will it displease God if I compound and ratify my mistake by continuing to associate?

Lordy Lordy .. Are you not Entertained…

Definitely not, our opinion doesn’t matter in the least. He never said interracial relationships were a sin. Even if they were a sin which they are not Christ died for all sins, “it is finished“ were his dying words.

So I'm good to go then????
No matter you or your " sons" christain veiw of it?
Good to know I'm not subject to a mortals condemnation then.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

What do you think about lying azz sock puppet trolls on here????
Like say for instance.......
Billy/Crappy Hamster
Is it ok to turn a blind eye to all his BS lies like a few I have mentioned on this thread because he quotes scripture and has faith supposedly.

That question always seems to go unanswered on here and I have presented it in various ways many times.

Like it is something to be totally advoided by alot of people that interact with him.

Strange........
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

It's all almost Cult like surrounding Billy/ Crappy Hamster with certain people on here at times and their basic refusal it seems to address anything about him.
Hmmmmmmm?????🤔🤔🤔🤔

Interesting.

Oh well...
Weak minds cave....

Off to a gun show in Murfeesboro.
Gotta jump in the shower and then get on the way.

You all have fun👍👍👍

And say Hi to Billy/ Crappy Hamster for me.
Tell him it will be safe for him to come out of his cave and post a little bit today until I get back and decide whether or not I'm gonna fuuuck with him.
🤣🤣🤣

Moses was married to a black woman and God didn’t mind but his brother and sister did.


“And Miriam (the prophetess, Moses’ sister) and Aaron (High Priest Aaron, brother of Moses) spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian (or Cushite) woman…..And the Lord heard it!” Numbers 12:1-2).

“Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth” (Numbers 12:3).

I saw that Movie .. Charlton Heston wasn’t a Mouse he was a Lion ..
ESPECIALLY after he talked to the
Burning Bush..

From the foul language many here choose to use that call themselves Christians I doubt God is very pleased with much of any in regard to the way these threads end up going.

Does God surf the internet?

Thanks for the prayers, but I'd prefer you cite your NT reference about this.

Dang, you guys cry and argue about everything 😂😂

Less people are dying of disease then ever before.
Less people are dying of starvation then ever before.
Less people are dying of war then ever before.
Less people are dying of whatever then ever before.
And its just getting better and better...

Life is great... stop reading or watching depressing news.
They sell that [bleep] to make you feel like [bleep] and consume more..


Go be a good human and help other people the best you can...

Amazing ....
Time it takes to shower and shave.
Daddy signs off after I lay down some schit about Billy/ Crappy Hamster.
And OP sonny shows up for the 2nd time on his own thread.


Simply amazing.......
🤔🤔🤔🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😄🤣😄😄


Gunshow bound.....

AMF!!!
😁😁😁🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️😁😁😁

No, US morality rates decreased from 1950 to a low in 2008, from 2009 upward every year mortality rates have increased every year.

Kent

It ain't the words, brother. It's the meaning and sentiment that inspire them.

But, yeah...much of what we ALL do and think must be displeasing to God.

People, offended for God, are only offended for themselves.

Imagine God has to listen to 8 billion people at one time and include all past lives. All the crying and begging him, all the cursing him, all the praising him, misrepresenting... from the same person at different times in their life. 8 billion bi polar, compared to God himself, souls in a constant bombardment.

God obviously has the thickest skin in his universe.

Kent

The problem wasn't that she was black but rather that she wasn't Hebrew. God wants us to marry within our beliefs. The same thing happened with Esau.

word

I wish you’d post more often on these threads.

Sorry about that just got in from moving blinds at the deer lease and my wife had my phone at the shop for a repair.

Be a good human lol.
Thanks for voting Biden you pussy.

OG white girl rap.

2nd Corinthians 6:14-18

What does “offended” even mean?

God can defend Himself; to my chagrin He has had to defend Himself against me. When I remember the grace shown me I have a lot less to worry about re: others.

Still, I do enjoy theological discussions with some on this site… many with whom I disagree on finer points while agreeing on the main thing.

…that is, that Christ died for sinners, among whom I’m chief.

Oh and the rapture.

All passages used by dispensationalists to point to a rapture are actually references to the second coming. Once you let loose of the heretical position that God is a philandering wife with two brides (Israel & the Church) then such misinterpretation is unnecessary.

The Church are all of those who looked (both ahead & back) to Christ in faith for redemption. Paul makes this crystal clear in his letters to the saints in Rome & those in Galatia, as well as the author of Hebrews in chapter 11.

There is no such thing as a rapture. We look forward to our Lord’s second coming in which He shall judge the living and the dead. Period.

Amen. That’s a good interpretation of salvation, the church and the 2nd coming.

Now you went and ruint everything. ;-{>8

I'm typing this from above the clouds - I was raptured i feel really sorry for all you poor basterds left behind

The Rapture .... is false doctrine invented by false prophets

I'll be a good human and start by educating the gullible ones.Your comments sound like a poster for the W.H.O, a pack of crooks I have worked for incidentally.


More people are in poverty than ever before.
There are more slums than ever before.
There is less personal ownership of land than ever before.
There is less drinkable water than any time before.
100 world leaders are classed as humans rights abusers.
There IS NO LAND LEFT for humans who want to break away from a state, city, county or even village. Meaning there is no freedom from oppression if you cant win a war.

This the major human or natural or god given right most humans have lost incidentally. In the 100 countries, or 3/4 of the human population classed as corrupt 3rd world dumps, you have no freedom. You cant even go back to nature and live because someone owns that land and will want rent. Just the water in most of these countries is loaded with bugs from human faeces. The poorer 2/3 of the world had better living standards and options in the 19th century.

Nearly 2,000 years ago they said 'soon'.....................

Anyone confused by the notion of two covenants would do well to read the book "Jesus and Israel: One Covenant or Two?" by David Holwerda. I very good summary of which appears on the Ligonier Ministry website:


Every year, thousands of Christian books are published worldwide. Of those thousands, there are usually only a small handful that are worth reading. Of those that are worth reading, there are only a few that are worth reading repeatedly. David Holwerda's Jesus & Israel: One Covenant or Two? is one of those rare few. The basic purpose of Holwerda's book is to examine the topic of promise and fulfillment in Scripture from a Reformed, covenantal perspective. In order to thoroughly deal with this significant topic, each chapter of the book is devoted to addressing one specific issue that sheds light on the relationship between Jesus and Israel. The topics that are addressed include, for example, the temple, the land, and the law. Though not an explicitly stated purpose of the book, the examination of these issues from a covenantal perspective also provides a very helpful contrast with the popular dispensationalist ideas of promise and fulfillment.

The first chapter of the book is titled "Jesus and Israel in the Twentieth Century." In this chapter, Holwerda asks a crucial question: "How should one write or speak about Jesus and Israel after the Holocaust?" (p. 6). He notes the fact that it has become more difficult since World War II for Christians to deal with issues related to Israel because "the contemporary Church encounters modern Israel with a guilty conscience" (p. 6). Holwerda observes that many scholars have sought to alleviate this guilt and foster dialogue with representatives of Judaism by glossing over the unique claims of Christ. While acknowledging that the Church has been guilty of anti-semitic words and actions in past centuries, Holwerda rightly rejects the claims of these liberal Christians, pointing out that Christianity simply cannot give up the claim that Jesus is the Messiah without giving up Christianity itself. Following this necessary introductory chapter, Holwerda proceeds to outline the main questions that will be asked and answered in the remaining chapters of the book:

Who is Jesus?
What is His relationship to Israel and the Old Testament with its law and its promises?
What is His relationship to the promises concerning the temple, the land, and Jerusalem?
What should Jews and Gentiles think of Him?
In chapter two, Holwerda deals with the most basic question: "Who is Israel?" This chapter lays the foundation for the remainder of the book because the answer to this question dramatically affects the interpretation of all prophecy. Holwerda devotes the bulk of chapter two to an examination of the Gospel of Matthew because this Gospel in particular is an extended answer to the question: "Who is Israel?" Through a careful and fascinating look at various passages in Matthew, Holwerda concludes that Jesus is the true Israel. In the opening genealogy, for example, Matthew links Jesus to Abraham and David in order to show that the promises of blessing given to Abraham and David are now being fulfilled in and through Jesus, the true Son of Abraham and the true Son of David. Jesus is a "corporate person" who represents a group of people (Israel) and in whom that group of people is representatively embodied (p. 34).

Matthew's answer to the question, "Who is Israel?" is also indicated through his geographical references. What happened to Israel in the past provides types of the person and life of Jesus. The threat to his life as an infant, the flight to Egypt, and the time in the wilderness all parallel events in the history of Israel. As Holwerda notes, the recognition of this fact helps to explain Matthew's use of such prophesies as Hosea 11:1 (cf. Matt. 2:14ff.). If the entire context of Hosea 11 is examined, it can be seen that exile for Israel was not God's final word. God promised a new exodus by means of which He would create His new people. Matthew's use of this prophecy in connection with Jesus shows that this long awaited new exodus has begun with His coming (p. 40).

Matthew also records the words God speaks from heaven in 3:17 and 17:5. In both passages, God says, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." The language reflects Isaiah 42:1, a passage in which God promises to place His Spirit on His servant to enable Him to complete His messianic work and bring salvation to the world. Matthew records these words from heaven at Jesus' baptism. What this means, according to Holwerda, is that the "story of Jesus' baptism is intended to proclaim Jesus as God's anointed servant (p. 43). In Isaiah, the servant is "both Israel and the one who by representing Israel renews Israel" (p. 43). Jesus is the One who fulfills the role originally assigned to the nation of Israel - to be a light to the nations.

The identity of Jesus as the true Israel raises an important question. If He has taken the place of the Old Testament nation of Israel, what is the status of this nation? As Holwerda observes, "Continued possession of promises cannot be maintained apart from the faith that God gives to His people" (p. 54). This is indicated in Matthew in chapters 11-13 where the consequences of covenant breaking and faithlessness are spelled out. Who, then is Israel? Holwerda explains the answer.

Jesus, a literal descendant of Abraham, himself a Jew, is the Israel who is the object of God's love. He is chosen by God and responds in perfect obedience, fulfilling the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17) and all righteousness (3:15). Since Jesus is the corporate representative of Israel, God now recognizes as Israel all who respond in faith and obedience to the presence and will of God revealed in Jesus. Of course, the first to so respond are in fact Jews. Jesus' condemnation of Israel is not a blanket condemnation of all Jews but only of those who do not believe. The crowds that follow him do not receive from him the same radical judgment as is pronounced on the leaders of the nation. Instead, Jesus has compassion on the crowds as "sheep without a shepherd" and declares to his disciples that the harvest is plentiful (Matthew 9:36-38). So long as they do not reject Jesus, the possibility of becoming Jesus' disciples remains open to the people. Will they accept the definition of Israel and the fulfillment of the promises revealed in Jesus? Will they acknowledge the presence of God and the arrival of the kingdom in the person and ministry of Jesus? Will they comprehend the mystery of the kingdom? That was and continues to be the only question that decides the identity of Israel: Not ancestry but faith, not human achievement but God's gift, calling and election, acknowledged in Jesus, son of Abraham, son of David, Son of God (pp. 56-57)

In chapter three, Holwerda discusses the temple, asking whether prophecy requires the rebuilding of a temple of stone on the site of the previous temples in Jerusalem. After carefully examining the history of the Old Testament temples and the temple promises, he observes that Jesus' ministry fulfills all that the temple symbolized. Jesus is the true temple of God, and those who are in Christ are part of this temple (cf. 1 Cor. 3:16ff.; 2 Cor. 6:16-7:1; Eph. 2:20-22). Chapter four is devoted to the highly controversial issue of the land promises. Holwerda points out that while the land promises are irrevocable, they are also conditional. Israel cannot claim that she has a "right" to the land. The land belongs to God and remains His even when Israel possesses it (cf. Lev. 25:23). Israel may only continue to possess God's gift of the land by keeping the covenant (Deut. 4:25ff.). As Holwerda observes, "maintianing possession of the land while violating the stipulations of the covenant is utterly impossible" (p. 92). " A holy land cannot tolerate an unholy people and it will vomit Israel out when Israel defiles the land just as it vomited out the wicked nations before Israel entered the land (Lev. 18:28)" (p. 93). In Israel's past, she was driven out of the land by God for idolatry (Hos. 9:1-3) and for oppressing widows, orphans, foreigners, and the poor (Zech. 7:8-14). In order to maintain possession of the land, God's people must be holy even as He is holy (p. 95). The New Testament indicates that the land promises have now been universalized. They are no longer focused on the particular land of Palestine. They now include the whole earth (cf. Rom. 4:13; Eph. 6:2). In addition, the New Testament points out that the heir of the promises is no longer the particular nation of Israel but Christ and all who are in Him by faith (Gal. 3:16, 29). Holwerda notes:

The conditions for inheriting the land are fulfilled only in Jesus and since He is the temple where God dwells, the New Testament locates Jerusalem where Jesus is. Jesus is in heaven and so is Jerusalem. Claims to citizenship are established by faith in Christ, and hence the members of the Church, the body of Christ, are also citizens of that city. Both the Church and the new Jerusalem are called the bride of Christ, indicating that the members of the Church and the citizens of that city are the same (2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 22:2, 9; 22:17) (p. 111).

Holwerda turns to the question of the law in chapter five. What happens to the law when Jesus comes? Christians have suggested a number of widely differing answers over the centuries. Jesus Himself says, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill" (Matt. 5:17). Jesus came to fulfill the Prophets, and He came to fulfill the law. What does this "fulfillment" mean? Holwerda offers a helpful explanation.

With regard to the prophets, Jesus' announcement is not so difficult to understand, even though Matthew's own presentation of the fulfillment of certain prophecies may be very complex. Fulfillment of prophecies means simply that the reality promised in the prophetic word becomes an actual event in human history. What then is the fulfillment of the law? Obviously this fulfillment happens when the righteousness articulated in the law similarly becomes reality in human history. The law is an articulation, under the specific circumstances in which Israel lived, of the righteousness that will cover the face of the earth. Therefore, fulfillment of the law entails a realization in history of the righteousness articulated in the law. To bring that about was the intention and achievement of Jesus' mission.

In chapter six, Holwerda raises the question of a future for Jewish Israel. If Jesus is the One through whom all of the promises are fulfilled, then what possible place could there be for Jewish Israel? Holwerda addresses this question by examining Paul's answer to the question in Romans 9-11. Holwerda points out that Paul approaches the problem of Jewish Israel from two-angles. First, Paul points out that God has not rejected His people because even now there is a believing remnant. The remnant is now being saved, but the rest have been hardened (Rom. 11:7). Yet, according to Paul, even this judgment upon the rest of Israel is not final. They have stumbled, but they have not fallen (Rom. 11:11ff.). All of this is been part of God's redemptive plan. Israel's hardening led to salvation for the Gentiles. The salvation of the Gentiles will lead to jealousy and ultimately a removal of the hardening on the part of the rest of Israel. According to Holwerda, "all Israel" in Romans 11:26, "refers to Jewish Israel in its eschatological fullness" (p. 170). It is not merely the sum total of the Jewish remnant over the centuries. 'The remnant holds out hope for the rest" (p. 176).

The strength's of Holwerda's book are many. It offers insight into the meaning of Scripture on virtually every page. It is almost futile to underline the most helpful parts of the book without underlining every sentence. His examination of the centrality of Jesus in the fulfillment of the Old Covenant promises is a crucial antidote to the rampant dispensationalist hermeneutic that virtually bypasses consideration of Christ as the true "seed of Abraham" (Gal. 3:16). His outline of Paul's argument in Romans 11 is also particularly good. The book is not only extremely insightful, it is also very clearly written. While offering numerous avenues of exploration for seasoned scholars, it is also readily accessible to students and serious laymen. Holwerda's choice of topics is also particularly helpful since the promises related to the land, the law, and the temple are some of the most disputed points of biblical interpretation among conservative Christian scholars today.

There is only one issue that I believe should have been addressed more explicitly and thoroughly in the book and that is what the attitude of the Church toward the modern state of Israel should be. Since many Christians today see the formation of the modern state of Israel in 1948 as a direct fulfillment of biblical prophecy, and since this belief leads many Christians to give virtually unqualified support to the modern Israeli government, it would have been helpful to see how Holwerda would have applied the principles outlined in his book to this issue. Are modern Jews, for example, still the true heirs of the land promise regardless of their continued unbelief in Jesus Christ? Even if Israel has a claim to the land promises apart from faith in Jesus Christ, does she have a claim to the land promises apart from the Old Covenant stipulations attached to those promises? If Old Testament Israel was thrust out of the land for violating these stipulations, could the modern state of Israel also be thrust out of the land by God if she commits the same sins her ancestors committed—refusal to acknowledge God, oppression of widows, orphans, foreigners, etc.? How should the Western Church respond when Arab Christians in the territories occupied by the armies of Israel since 1967 complain of continual human rights abuses? These are important questions, and the principles outlined in Holwerda's book could provide some help as we grapple with them. I am not sure why Holwerda did not deal with this important question, especially since he devoted the entire first chapter of the book to an examination of the Church's interaction with modern Jews since the Holocaust. However, in spite of this one minor criticism, I strongly recommend Holwerda's Jesus & Israel to all who seek a better understanding of the nature of biblical promises and their fulfillment.

Dr. Keith Mathison is professor of Systematic Theology at Reformation Bible College.

If one is confused by the notion of 'two covenants' what needs to be read is:

Hebrews 8:13

10glocks, that dose not mean that I disagree with much quoted above....

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I’m on the Welcoming Committee..

So you think that verse says interracial couples are against God's will? Speechless.............

Hebrews 8:13 speaks to the covenant between God and Israel. The target audience of Hebrews were the Jews, who were under a notion that their laws and practices kept them in covenant with God, apart from Christ. But their practices never fuilfilled the covenant, a covenant which was only fulfilled completely by Christ.

Hebrews 11:13 speaks to that truth, that there has ever really only been one covenant from the beginning - faith in Christ. Abraham and Sarah knew it, and many others long before Christ knew it. And they died in that faith, before the promise was fulfilled, and were righteous for their faith.

Faith in Christ and Christ alone from the 1st day is the only covenant. It was God's plan from the beginning, as evidenced in Genesis when God promised a saviour, and that that Saviour, the woman's seed, would crush the head of the serpant.

My concern is that there is a segment of Christians out there that believe Jews are safe because they have some special, separate covenant apart from Christ. They don't, and never have. Because they were never perfect, nor could they be, and could not fulfill the covenant. Only Christ fulfills the covenant. And that was the plan all along, from before the foundation of the world.

It seems…to me anyways…that some have chosen to set aside the uniqueness of Jesus’ good news and traded it for a faith that is so blended with old covenant religion that it’s hardly recognizable as what Jesus and Paul taught. It seems…to me anyways…that some have chosen to bring in the legalistic and hypocritical religion of the Pharisees and call it ‘Christianity’. Who could blame anyone for leaving ‘that’…?

To me, Jesus clearly introduced a new movement, and He did so by instituting the New Covenant that the Old Testament prophet Jeremiah had predicted. And Jesus clearly gave his New Covenant movement a new command that would serve as the overriding ethic for His new movement ~ not only to love God and love other’s…which Jesus clearly said encompassed the entirety of the Law…but to love other’s as He loves us. He said ‘that’ was ‘the’ defining characteristic of His followers.

And, to me, the institution of His New Covenant had implications for the old one. God’s covenant with the Ancient Israelites at Mount Sinai had an expiration date ~ and the New Testament clearly points that out. When the New Covenant was instituted by Jesus, the old one became outdated and obsolete. It was time for it to be retired because something new and better was replacing it.

Dispensationalism is at the root of the Rapture Heresy. I’m working on memory but remember that the theology started in England, didn’t get traction and was imported to America.

It got traction here because the tradition of the Church in America is to find things that were supposedly hidden for 1800 years and mainstream those ideas.

Absolutely, all Americanized doctrines have had a negative impact on the faith. They have added nothing other than a weakening of the centrality of Christ, replacing Him with pragmatism, self awareness and self determination.

As it presently exists, the America Church doesn’t need Christ. Dispensationalism is a large part of that departure from the faith.

I am not sure that the belief in a pre-tribulation rapture is so much a heresy as it is genuine misintrepation of scripture. But I have witnessed genuine heresies in dispensational churches. I once saw a "pastor" tell his all consuming audience that the first sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak in tongues. That church was filled with people that spouted gibberish to "demonstrate" that they had the Holy Spirit. But one can only fake that for so long before the realization of the truth, that its being faked, sets in. That sort of preaching has led to much falling away. Sometimes it too hard to believe the simple truth that one is saved by grace through faith in Christ. Man just has to have a part in his own salvation and comes up with all this nonsense. Its just very hard to accept that Christ has already done it all and that we are unable to contribute at all to our own salvation. Man is a sinner, can't help but be a sinner, and is imperfect in the eyes of God and unacceptable in his own right. The only thing that makes man righteous and acceptable to God is the perfection of Christ that is imputed to us through faith. Christ is our only saviour and our faith is the lifeline between ourselves and the One that saves us.

That Scripture has nothing to do with ethnicity. It definitely has to do with belief. According to God's Word there is only one race, the human race.

I’d call anything that leads away from Christ Crucified and Christ revealed in all scripture heresy. On this board we frequently see the heresy of faith in faith expressed as faith in Christ. The layers are thick.


I once read on a forum a fella recounting of an event in his “church”. An old fella stood during the part of the service devoted to enthusiasms and declared that God had told him to crawl around the church and bark like a dog and he would be healed. The pastor said that if God had told him to do that, he too, would crawl and bark.
Evidently, they did.

Did they hear from the Holy Spirit? No, but I believe that they were in touch with A spirit. A lot of abject stupidity gets blamed on God.

All posters here use words. You just put them together better than most.

If you don't mind, would you be so kind as to explain why the directly taught by Jesus disciples baptized new believers?

Simple and well stated.









Most folks miss those details. The Bible was written FOR our benefit, but it was written TO the people of the times each of the books were written.

Bingo....

Hey when do we get to hear the Horn Section..
This is developing into a Q Fest ..

Everyone, it seems, has their own interpretations and beliefs...

Isn't that the way we want it?

As opposed to letting Biden's disinformation panel decide truth for everyone!

There are a lot Tattoo Parlors out there..

And the problem comes when a individual turns theirs into my way or the highway broad brush condemnation of others who don't see it precisely as a said individual does....

Here's my view on this:

I may or may not be taken up in the Rapture and miss the "Great Tribulation". I do believe Christians will not be here during the final short period on earth known as the "Wrath of God". I would not be surprised or have my faith shaken if we have to spend time under persecution/arrest/death from the beast and his government. One of my favorite verses is Psalm 56:11 "In God I have put my trust, I will not be afraid, what can man do to me?"

God bless you all, Jesus is our comfort and confidence.

bludog

Not everything can be true. Lies are not true. Misinterpretations are not true. Illusions give the impression that something is true, when in fact its not....

Is Crappy Colored Ass Hamster awake yet?

I dunno.

Wonder what his take is on The Rapture.

His of course would be the final say so of course....

What ‘is’ true is that something very significant happened in the 1st Century, and it fueled the astounding growth of a tiny sect that should have been eradicated by the Jewish Temple, who persecuted its members and saw to it that its leader was killed, and especially after the mighty Roman Empire carried out the execution and also persecuted its members. These are historical facts.

And the powerful Jewish Temple was completely destroyed later on in the 1st Century, and the mighty Roman Empire ended in the 5th Century. And the tiny sect…against all odds…has become the largest religion in the world with more than 2.4 billion members. These are historical facts.

Modern secular historians and scholars ‘still’ do not understand how this came about.

I think the Catholic church prevailed because it allied with and at times superseded the civil Governments. Most Christianity today is a lineal descendant of this arrangement.

But the Catholic Church that you refer to didn’t even exist for the first 300 years of Christianity. But profound persecution of Christians did. And against all odds, Christianity continued to spread like an airborne disease.

By the 3rd Century, Christianity had become a force to be reckoned with. And modern secular scholars and historians ‘still’ do not really understand how this came about.

What I wonder is at what point did the organized church take the wrong fork in the road and ally with the state. It could not have been abrupt thing but at some point they walked into the corral and were trapped.

X 1,000

Jesus Himself said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."


Many folks think their way is better than God's way.
They boldly slander, defame, harass and "dox" to "prove it" too.

Check out the Sunday sermon posts for examples.
Good to hear you clearly speak the truth.

Conversion of Constantine

I saw that speaking in tongues transformation while attending a Pentecost church my girlfriend and her family belonged to.

I tried to hold back my laughter, clinching my teeth, tightened core and chest muscles, just certain I was going to blow out my ass ring from the pressure load.

And then I made this sound like a cat hissing while choking on a hairball at the same time. Heads turned my direction. I got a bewildering look from my girlfriends parents. I had to walk outside. Stayed out, too, until church let out.

I didn’t parse words with her dad, when he came outside. Straight up told him that was an act of bullshît. They all could believe that nonsense if they wanted to, but I wouldn’t be back.

Joker mofo’s believing in that horse shît!

SMH

🦫

I agree with efw. Constantine wanted to establish a single and imperially approved version of Christianity that would strengthen the Roman Empire.

That may be the moment the gate was slammed shut but I've got to believe there were competing factions long before that and Constantine saw an advantage in bringing them in so the dominant faction could be controlled and the dominant Christian faction saw an opportunity to outlaw the true believers. I don't believe The Abyssinian Church of Ethiopia ever was brought to heel by the Catholics. And Ethiopia was the first ever nation declared Christian. An interesting thing I was told by an old history professor was that Ethiopia kept meticulous genealogy records and that Emperor Haile Selassie was a direct descendant of King Solomon and part of his very long title was "Conquering Lion of Judah", and that he was a devout Christian.

Not to be confused with the 2nd coming. The second coming is spoken of in greatest detail in Revelation 19:11-16. The rapture is very clear, the obvious difference is we meet Him in the air.

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17
English Standard Version
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Beaver, I don't really blame you. I'm very skeptical of most anything man gets involved with nowadays. As my dad would say, people will screw up a one car funeral. That's an understatement.

When is the rupture coming? If I keep having to tie a shoe lace after eating at Arbys, any day now

I dont think the gate was ever “slammed shut.”

At some point along the way, Christianity…through the Catholic Church…did become inseparable from power over the people; and that power over the people was the most important thing to the church leaders, who sprinkled a little bit of Christianity into the mix. They intentionally and forcefully collected all of the Christian texts, bound em’ together, and chained em’ to the alter, and made possession of a Bible by the common man punishable by death.

And the Catholic Church leaders would determine what was and wasn’t taught, and how the Bible would be interpreted. No independent thought was allowed, and theological division was ‘heresy’ that was punishable by death. Believing the wrong thing was a crime. What you believed trumped how you behaved. Christianity became creedal; and in these creeds, there’s no mention of love, there’s no mention of behavior at all. You could subscribe to the creeds and still do anything you wanted.

And there was a reason creeds were like that...the creeds were generally signed off on by the Emperor’s, and they had some pretty bad behaviors...so the church leaders who were being funded by the Emperor’s had to be real careful with what they put into these creeds. Throughout all of this, no one was ever arrested or persecuted or executed for loving too much. It was all about what they did and didn’t believe. You had Christians arresting Christians for believing the wrong thing. You had sanctimonious power brokers who were self appointed gatekeepers of Heaven and hell.

They’d withhold communion, they’d withhold baptism, and threaten excommunication. The popes, the priests, the bishops, and the archbishops were the power mongers. Under their control, the church bore little resemblance to what it was in its earliest days. The Catholic Church was drunk on its own power and strength instead of trusting in God’s wisdom and providence. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And those in power were clearly pleased with the control and dominance they had over the lives of the believers. Those who profit the most from the status quo are the least inclined to let it go.

The Bible was written through and to the common man, and those in power snatched it from the grasp of the believers, so that its contents were known only to those in control, who then ‘interpreted’ it to the believers...to the benefit of those in control. Jesus’ crucifixion was a *finished* work; He said so Himself. But through the ritual of the mass, they sacrificed Him all over again every time the congregation gathered. Believers were led to believe that their salvation depended upon their ability to meet certain commands and adopt certain doctrines that the Catholic Church told them were from God...instead of putting their hope and salvation in the righteousness and resurrection of Jesus alone.

But there were always followers of Jesus who didn’t agree with the wrongs of the above.

I’m not a dispensationalist and one doesn’t have to be one to take a pre-trib, premillennial view of Revelation. These folks are not a monolith of thought and belief and there are various nuanced views of a futurist hermeneutic of Revelation, ch’s 4-22.

The Protestant churches that identify as Reformed have become spiritually mushy, as a result of the Higher Crirticsm of the early 20th century, particularly that of the German theologians. The seminaries were deeply affected and the pastors graduating have not been the best and brightest. Their theology is often informed by the culture rather than the other way around. See the decades long struggle of those denominations struggling with homosexuality and how to respond to it. In the mean time the pulpits are filled with gay pastors, women pastors, prosperity theology, and the denial of whole parts of the scriptures and rampant spiritualization of other scriptures. And OT, NT (Revelation) prophecy is practically anathema to them. Most Reformed preaching is often topical so those pastors can avoid those topics they know nothing about, or are confused about, or worry will offend someone, or turn some away. Of course no denomination is completely free of those types.

As to the denial of ethnic Israel in eschatology you’ll have to turn many OT scriptures upside down and also many NT scriptures. In Genesis, where it starts, the unconditional promises to the patriarchs is characterized by words such as EVERLASTING and your DESCENDANTS after you, the context making clear “spiritual descendants” is not meant at all, and the living on the LAND is in view also.

Many Reformed views are still essentially Catholic as the Reformers, Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin were conflicted over some of their views, if not outright in error (infant baptism, eschatology). Thank God, He made salvation by grace through faith clear to them.

Much of Reformed doctrine is not Biblical doctrine but the traditions of men since the 4th century AD, begun by the views of Augustine and Constantine, and eventually becoming inculcated into RC theology.

It’s notable that in Revelations ch’s 2,3, five out of seven churches were criticized by Christ in John’s vision. His words and warnings should have great significance for us today, and put our ears on a swivel so to speak. Which is probably why He said, “ let those who have ears hear.”

The Greek word for rapture or being “caught up” is harpazio, and while “rapture” itself is not used, the idea of being caught up and spared judgement (the tribulation, the time of Jacob’s trouble) is.

God is completely sovereign and Christ the victor!

My perspective regarding all of these things is, if the Resurrection of Jesus really happened, then who gives a rip about misinterpretations and illusions and impressions regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…? If the Resurrection of Jesus is true, then who gives a flip about each having their own interpretations and beliefs regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…?

It doesn’t matter if the walls of Jericho really came down or not; it doesn’t matter if the universe was really created in 6 twenty four hour periods or not; it doesn’t matter if Jonah and the great fish is literal or analogous; and it doesn’t matter if the Rapture is really gonna happen or not.

If the Resurrection of Jesus really happened…if the Resurrection of Jesus is true…then it’s game on…! Period…! ‘It’ is what matters most, first and foremost, regardless of anything else, no matter what…! Everything else pales in comparison to ‘that’…!

Preach that Truth, brother! Most here need It.

Just Google Ken Hagin. He's dead but people still eat this stuff up. It's really horrifying.

We live, we die. No great reward, just worm dirt.

Without Constantine, it's likely that there would have been no Christianity as a state religion. Paul and Constantine were the great promoters of the faith.

Simply outstanding George. Nicely done.

How do we know about the resurrection of Christ? Where is it revealed to us? In the scriptures. If they were filled with myth, what part of it, if any, would you believe? BTW, no archeological find has ever disproved any location or history, as it is told of in the scriptures.

It matters a great deal.

not soon enough....

thank the democRats for the world problems at the current time...

If its rapture time, Satan is going to have a long line to process, from just the democRat politicians in this nation.

I respectfully disagree. If the Resurrection of Jesus is true…if it did in fact really happen…then ‘that’ is what matters the absolute most. Fine theological points that were once considered important and worth debating oughta evaporate in light of the reality of Jesus’ Resurrection.

The foundation of Christianity is ‘not’ an inspired book, but rather the events that inspired the book; events that inspired writers…under the guidance of the Holy Spirit…to document these events, along with insights and conversations, with the pivotal and founding event being the Resurrection of Jesus.

While it’s true that we would likely not know of these events had they not been documented, it’s equally true that they were documented hundreds of years before there ever was a Christian Bible; and it’s equally true that these events, not the record of these events, are what birthed Jesus’ movement.

The Bible didn’t create Christianity. Christianity is the reason the Bible was created. Christianity would still be true even if there were no Bible’s.

I dont hold any hope for any organized religions who think they know WTH is going on beyond the basics when they "figured things out" ages ago and before many modern developments on earth with humanity occured as they have within the last hundred years.

How can any religious organization have things figured out when they are made of men of which none are perfect. We know mens ways arent HIS ways so I'm not putting much faith in what men figured out ages ago.

Organized religion doesnt even acknowledge that they and their theology has been successfully infiltrated and affected by Lucifer.

They cant, or wont, tell us when Satan scattered his seed of tares in the fertile field with Gods seed of wheat.

They lie to us telling us we are gentiles when the Northern Empire called Israelites were captured and enslaved for ages by the Assyrians (who became the Ayrian nations) before working their way to freedom and crossing over the Caucasus Mts and spreading to the great western shores.

They cant make the connection Denmark was from the Hebrew tribe of Dan and carried the Mark of Dan nor that Great Britain was a contraction from Great Birth Nation.


They made their deal with the devil when they discarded our God given US Constitution and agreed to not vet into politics to escape taxation and therefore they dont carry the message of God to the people about the scum in govt who steal from the working class to buy votes.

Didnt HE say one is to provide for ones self and ones family and if they didnt they are no better than unbelievers? How many attend church and live off the labor of others and yet think they are going to Heaven because they put someone else's money in the plate?

There is truly going to be a great gnashing of teeth and many of HIS will perish due to lack of knowledge just as HE said. Who thinks our organized religions wont be held responsible for leading people astray?

Our organized religions mostly lie and say the Jews killed Christ when it was the false Jews called Saducees and Pharasees. How do we know they were not of Him as were the Jews? In John when Jesus is being hounded by them and they claimed they were of the Father. Jesus said you are not of the Farther or you would know me. Thats why GOD said something to the effect of 'Woa be unto those who call themselves Jews but do lie".

Now we have almost every religion in the US sending money to help those very same false AshkeNAZI Jews running Ukraine and the WEF and NWO.

Who is "the evil one". Satan. The first viper? What does your church tell you about who HE is referring to in 1 John 3: 11-12 where HE said Cain is from "the evil one"?

Connect the dots because organized religion wont, they've been decieved by Lucifer, like Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden.

What organized religion explains that Jesus wasnt lying or calling people name when he whipped the money changers (banksters) out of the Holy Temple when He called them VIPERS and that He knew their father, the murderer from the beginning. Where was the beginning? Who was the murderer from the beginning? Cain. They were vipers and were whose sons? They were Cains sons. Where do vipers come from? Other vipers. Who was the FIRST VIPER. Who did GOD cut the legs off of and make crawl in the dirt and eat dirt and strike mens heels? The first viper, Satan.

Hes still biting mens heels, in our organized religions. Those same organized religions will turn against Christ again as they did before they crucified Christ. They are doing so now, by protecting the child traffickers in the worlds govts and the Azov Nazis in Ukraine.

So, I have no interest in the pre this or post that. As far as I'm concerned its men trying to build structures of men and for men and not for HIM.

I’m sorry, but that’s just not possible if Big Bang was the beginning of space and time itself. It even doesn’t make any sense. If there was the beginning of time (Big Bang), it must have its end, which means you can’t cease to exist for eternity, simply.
All the scientific facts we have and will get are still limited to our physical realm. One and obvious thing to tell is that “you can’t create something from nothing”. Quantum tunneling is something, not nothing. And you still need to consider the fact that there was a beginning of everything. The only explanation there is, is the existence of an unknown force beyond everything that has ever existed, currently exists and will come into existence in the future. That force is known to many scientists as “God”.
People always wanted to follow science and be rational about these things, avoiding any kind of religion or faith.

Stupid. All you had to do was tense up, shake like a dog crapping peach seeds, hold your breath till you turned blue and fell over convulsing.

You woulda got laid that night.

The Bible is a progressive revelation that reveals God’s redemptive plan and how God will resolve the problem of good and evil.

The first Christians were at Antioch. No one was known as a “Christian” until after Paul was saved and received his calling from the ascended Lord. Acts 11:26

Jews and believers from the 12 apostles were called “those of the way”. The gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) contain no Christianity. They were Jewish, written to Jews, with Jewish theology. They were believers of the gospel of the kingdom, not the gospel of grace, which came later. They were followers of “the way”, not “Christians”. Those who believed Jesus was the promised Messiah were followers of “the way”, not Christians.

Paul was the founder of Christianity. 1 Corinthians 3:10-11, 1 Timothy 1:15-16. Christianity did not begin until Paul’s conversion and instructions from the risen Lord.

The O.T. and the gospels focused on Israel, repentance, water baptism, faith plus works, and not on the death and resurrection of Jesus for salvation by faith alone.

Christianity includes the Church (the body of Christ), the Rapture, release from the Mosaic Law, the blinding of national Israel, and salvation by faith alone (no works required), and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Jews and Gentiles are now equal in Christ (in one body) in Christian theology.

Regardless of the differences of opinion among believers regarding theology, and theological points (and semantics), the fact is that without the Resurrection of Jesus…which the Apostle Peter (a Jew) said was his “living hope”…none of it, whether referred to as “the way” or “Christianity” or anything else, would exist.

I’m just Doing.. I’m just Doing .. I’m just Doing Fine …
Ya’ll don’t Worry bout Me ..
When it comes Time I’m bet’n on a Devine Intervention..
Till then I’m doing just Fine..

Antlers "Gets it," I think splitting hairs detracts from the Message.

He get’s a lot of things.

Some just have a hard time seeing past their ever glowing self enlightenment.

Best to wear shades while in their presence.

🦫

These discussions aren’t about pride; I can assure you that George is not a man who does this for that reason.

Of course we all have pride to a certain extent; even those who chastise others for discussing that which they view as unimportant.

If you affirm that there are two organic peoples of God and a rapture and tribulation as well as a premillennial view of Revelation but are not a dispensationalist what is a dispensationalist?

Honest question as I thought these were marks exclusively of dispensationalism; there is no other system that holds those views. I know it doesn’t necessarily denote Classical Dispensationalism (vs Progressive) but…



This is true to a large extent but I don’t believe it is because of their Refoemed leanings so much as their American context. All traditions are suffering these difficulties right now; the American church is in sharp decline.

Specifically I’d point out that the great champion of Scriptural integrity was J Gresham Machen who wrote Christianity and Liberalism and fought theological Liberalism at Princeton Seminary.



A central tenet of sound exegesis is to use the most clear passages of Scripture to interpret the less clear. Therefore one needs to look at Paul’s writings to the saints in Rome wherein he assures them that all have been saved by faith; that those Jews who boast in their status as having descended from Abraham or their circumcision are not saved.

In the third chapter of Galatians he is more explicit; those who have faith in Christ are heirs to the promise.

And what is that promise? It is Christ Himself which we learn in Hebrews 11 where we’re told Abraham died in faith. That Moses “believed Christ”.

We are all one people of God by faith; the invisible Church are Israel. We who are counted as covered in His blood from before and after His death will occupy the new heavens & new earth where we will worship Him for eternity at the consummation of all things which we anxiously await.



So the reformers weren’t Protestant but were “essentially (Roman) Catholic”? Sorry brother that is an obvious oxymoron.

Infant baptism was handed to us by the witness of the early church in the Scriptures, According to the church fathers, and the second century church. Believer-only baptism is informed by the rationalism of the enlightenment, as is the general trend within traditions who practice it to focus upon the faith of the baptized rather than the eternal faithfulness of the Father who gave us baptism. Premillennial/tribulation/rapture are all brand new ideas as well; they have no antecedent in the church fathers.



Amen brother!

There can be no doubt in my mind that we all fall short of a perfect understanding of these mysteries and we’ll all be corrected when we meet around the throne of our Lord.

Oh and by the way George I should tell you that I agree so much with your assessment of Reformed Churches that I’ve left the tradition altogether and am attending an LCMS (Lutheran Church Missouri Synod) and intend to join. The cultural stuff really bothered me.

Those who believe the Word of God get it........ salvation and subsequent growth in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This is getting it.
https://www.kjv1611only.com/video/15false/Jack_Schaap_Deceives_His_Simple_Ignorant_Followers.mp4


Others can get it too, IF they have the good news explained from the Bible.
V

Listening to Les Feldick, Les says Aberham was saved by Grace, before there was the Law.

Aberham Believed.

😆😆😆
Bill Stalling/Crappy Hamster
Deceives his simple ignorant followers.
So that is what you think of the people in your church in Chester SC.
Boy talk about a fruedian.....

And a blacked out hidden Anderson video again.
Your soooooo desperate for acknowledgement....


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Got a thrrad for you tommorow 👍👍👍👍👍

Embarrass and expose you.
You will have a big ole cock sticking out of your forehead once again.
Toodles🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️🙋‍♂️

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Wish you'd just get off these threads. Every time a thread goes anywhere near religion, you feel obligated to stomp your footprints all over it.

We really don't need you to susplain every facet of grace to us. George's and antlers' contributions make the conversations interesting. Yours feel like pulpet bullying. Please resist putting your brand on every single one of these threads.

I wasn’t referring about anyone specifically, including George.

There has been many threads about many topics relating to religion and beliefs.

Some like to shine brighter than others - which in my experience from reading along, has caused blindness on some otherwise good arguments for believing something different.

I for one just happen to gravitate towards the words and interpretations of Antlers writing. Simple as that.

🦫

I will as an aside, Pray for any nonbelievers here.

Organic People ..
Carbon Life Forms..
That’s so Far Out … It’s In..

Amen

I know I’m sorry I didn’t mean mine against anyone in particular either and forgive me if it came across that way.

There is a value in seeking to know and understand God’s word.

There can also come a time when pride takes over and runs the exercise.

Pray for us all, believers and non-believers alike. Life is hard, death is harder still, and we are all on the same roller coaster.

That is true I completely agree!

…and it is a theological point made demonstrably true (for among other reasons) it is grounded in the book…

Amen.

The message of salvation on account of our Lord Jesus Christ isn’t just for non-believers it is for believers… daily… and we all need prayer.

No worries. It would be hard for me to take something written by you as mean spirited. I knew what you meant.

Yeah, I got that pride thing down pretty good, too. Lol

Be well!

🦫

Yes, I agree.
Jesus is in all the first five books and all of the prophetic books.

It is stressed what He said to the disciples and what was written back in the beginning.
Luke 24

"He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
8 And they remembered his words,"

Jesus met some of His other disciples later who were rebuked for not trusting what the Bible says, calling them...
"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day"

Even His personal disciples doubted that historical event.
My point is that people really get it when they hear the Word of God proclaimed and decide to believe it.
Those preachers who undermine the Word are not in agreement with our Lord. Liberal and many conservative churches do that.
People only get saved when they decide to make Christ the Object of their faith as I think you made a good point of concerning your example of Abraham. He is a frequent example in the N.T. of faith.

Where does that faith come from?

A: Romans 10
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?..
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Antlers posts make me believe he actually understands and follows the principles of Christ’s teachings. It’s a refreshing change from people like jag’s B.S. calling people “corksuckers” and saying “Praise the Lord!” In the same sentence.
Hypocrites are what turned me off of organized religion. Too stupid to realize they’re the epitome of everything that Christ wasn’t.

Dude ..
If you Believe in Forever..
Life is just a One Night Stand ..
Oh Oh Oh ..

No need, if a Being capable of creating a universe exists, such a Being would not be so intolerent as to condemn people over trivial reasons.

There was a Burning Bush for a Reason..
Symbolic to those who believe in the Margins

freeimagehosting

Jedi Mind Fugg time for captain cut and paste from his word document icon ad nausem...






🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Rory, check out Les Feldick, please.

Efw,

The Reformers didn’t initially intend to leave the RCC. They intended to reform some of the abuses they saw, like Luther who hated the selling of indulgences and others. As the years of the 1500’s passed on by, that was realized as the pipe dream it was. As you know the Reformers were far from perfect, about like the patriarchs, and the rest of us as it turns out 😉. Zwingli and Calvin were both implicated in the drownings of Anabaptists. And Luther became antisemitic.

We should continually be reforming, matching our religious traditions against the Word of God, which to respond to antlers, is the REVEALED Word of God. How else would people in the centuries after the canon was agreed on, in the 300’s AD, even know of Christ and His sacrifice?

I agree with you about the culture which is what I mean about it informing the church instead of the other way around. And it’s getting worse every day it seems.

We left the RCA some time ago and I can’t imagine crossing that threshold again. We are presently in a EFC whose congregations are autonomous and I don’t answer to an East Cost headquarter that pretty much parallels the vast political climate differences that exist there and here.

Best to all who call Christ, Lord.

Amen.

I can appreciate a nondenominational point of veiw over a my way or the highway approach of a single individual's draconian this is how I see it and how you must see it approach.
That is a power attempt by a person over another person IMO...
All people interpret and understand the bible differently.
What one reads and thinks it says is different from another.
Bibles are written that way to give a person a feeling of individual connection to God differently from another person IMO.

That also goes for justabout any subject discussed or read actually.
The message, perception of message from source, perception of message by the individual as understood.
Lots of varibles of intent and understanding in the whole thing.
That is the way I think any denomination,s bible was meant to be.
How each person understands what is in it to themselves personally
for their self contentment and how that can be joining as a group with common ground in a faith.

Not another mans "no you must bend to how I see it only"..
That is a power grab by a person with a need for power in their mind or in the real world for a gain IMO.
That has been going since the dawn of time also.
And I have seen and experienced that all over the planet and how it can subjugate people.

Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhism, Hinduism.
Been exsposed to alot of the world's religons and how to approach and interact with them in given situations.
It's was part of the Job being on the ground dealing with people in the Infantry on the planet.
Last thing you needed to do was outrage or offend a people and create a enemy or even more enemies at times.

One example...
The moron MP,s at Abu Gharib.
Alot of soldiers died as the result of that.

Islam is a fugged up cult like religon IMO and many others see it that way also for very good reasons.
But why incite the fugga,s
Those MP,s did all that for power exploiting others beliefs.

Look at Cults in Christianity that have happened.
Power
A individual seeking power for their gain is what it boils down too.


And it is easy to read these people who seek power from others beliefs.
That has been happening since the dawn of time also.

Liberal Socialist Democrats are just as bad as Islam IMO.
Inherant evil intent common to both to dominate a population thru a might makes right mindset thru fear or reward over people.
One or the other, or a blend of both per needs laying groups against each other.

Sincerity and deception are 2 easily distinguishable things.
People that deceive others are outraged and condemn others when questioned or discovered.
Sincere people dont have those reactions.
I cannot stand a corrupt person and that covers much of human nature.

Enough of all this anyways.
I could go on and on and on.
Have dealt with alot of people on this planet, much much more than a average person will in their lifetime in their own 360° horizon.
Much more ...

I'm not a physcharitrist at all.
But have alot of experience with people.
Not just people world wide but soldiers in the army also which tend to be a cross section representation of all walks of life in our own nation.


Non denominational reminds me of military Chaplin's and their ability to not offend or alienate and their ability to provide knowledge and faith in a encompassing manner to a group or individual when needed or provided.


I got almost 10 to 11hrs of 2 daycare graduations to sit thru today in on call gopher standby status.
Then I'm free of it starting tommorow and will go out and walk arrowhead fields away from every other human on this planet for x amount of time.👍👍👍

😁😄😄😄

The fetal position is not a good strategy.

It's been 15 or so billion years without one. I wouldn't hold my breath.

"Like a thief in the night."

At the Council of Jerusalem in 50 AD, Apostle Peter (a Jew) made it crystal clear that the Jewish followers of Jesus are saved through the grace of God, just as the Gentiles (non Jews) are. He said so, verbatim.

And then James (the brother of Jesus) stood up and said something that is profound and determinative and focusing and (to me) likely the most vision-casting passage in the New Testament…it’s what I think discussions with the unchurched and dechurched oughta be about more than anything else…he said that it was his decision that believers, especially believers who are in leadership positions, should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God.

That (to me) oughta be what churches are doin’ right there. Yeah, I’d wanna make it as easy as possible. If somebody’s got a spark and they’re startin’ to focus on God, it makes sense to me to fan that flame and not do anything to make it unnecessarily difficult for those who are turning to God.

WTF?

True. Human depravity is not a recent invention.

The World has been ending for 2000 years. It doesn't matter to me how it ends, or when it ends, as our behavior and faith should not be any different in either scenario.

If it was Tuesday in Italy, an emu would eat turkey, is that what you are saying? You live, you die. You are an animal, no big reward. Enjoy your time here, because it's all you get.

Ugh someone pick up a history book once in awhile other than the bible.

World is a hell of a lot better than it has ever been for humanity as a whole. Why do you think we are pushing 8billion?

People believed in all sorts of things to help them get through life, and still do.

You got your opinion...I've got mine.

The External World doesn't cater to our beliefs or opinions. Something is either true or false regardless of what we may believe.

No, but our opinions and beliefs define "the external world." It exists to us only through our perception and we can concieve it only through our description.


Without believing something, there is no true or false. That has nothing to do with religion.

I blame the UN!

Actually, Norman Borlaug had a lot to do with it.

A tree, brick wall, house, river, mountain or whatever, obstructs your passage whether you believe its there or not. Your belief has no bearing on its existence. The sun shines upon us regardless of what we believe. The earth was a spherical planet orbiting a star when everyone believed the earth was stationary and flat.....

You are correct......and, might I add.....Faith is based on belief without evidence, whereas science is based on evidence without belief.....I choose to believe in Faith, of a God of the bible, but that is just me......What I realized was if those long, long ago scholars, and philosophers were just making up a story, especially thousands of years ago when there was no internet or no wiki-leaks, they would make the main characters and heroes seem perfect. But that’s not what the Bible does, yet, I wondered why. The only answer that made sense is that its authentic history about actual people....again, It is what I choose to believe.

Approximately 6 weeks , 6 days, 6 hours , 6 mins, and 66 seconds, or close.

Amen

To obtain understanding of the Scripture, start with salvation.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
Proverbs 1:7

Like a good textbook (not revisionist history) on Western Civ?

Christianity is the reason western civilization reached the zenith it has. And, no, the present population has nothing to do with the moral state of its peoples. In fact, the West’s culture has degraded — almost everybody older then twenty realizes this — the root cause being the rejecting of Judea-Christian values 60 years ago and the cascading effect in entertainment, business, academia, and politics. And disenfranchised youth leading to mass shootings.

The population has more to do with general improvement in water, food, and shelter, and medications, not to mention the eradication of many diseases worldwide.

Was it the Church that brought us out of the dark ages?

Amen +2

Responding to dimecovers5, The way I understand it is there is nothing on the eschatological calendar required before the Rapture.
Immediately after the Rapture, the 7 years Tribulation begins.
The Jews will rebuild the Temple during that time and they are satisfied for a while.
That is, until the Antichrist sits down in the Holy of Holies and demands that the whole earth worships him.
All who refuse are hunted down and executed.

So, the Temple will not be rebuilt prior to the Rapture, but after it.
And, God will not be honored by this temple they build, for that time of temple worship has long passed.

Yes it had it's part in ushering in the High Middle Ages, in ending slavery in Europe and in preserving all that Classical learning that Petrarch was so fond of. Actually, Petrarch wouldn't have been able to read those Greek and Latin texts if the monks hadn't taken care of them.

I'd say the Church tried to suppress anything that went against its theology, authority and teachings, that the enlightenment happened because inquiring minds dared to question.

Excellent post Sir 👍

Absolutely not. The (non) Christian church caused and prolonged the dark ages and if the church was questioned you got tied to a post and publicly burned as a warning to the rest of the "Christians". But the Christian church to be fair to Jesus had left his teachings in the dust when it joined the Roman government and became an instrument of the state.

Jesus was hijacked by the Medieval church and the misuse of His name was used in suppression and servitude of 90% of the population. If not for the upheaval caused in part by the Black Death plague it probably would have continued holding the people of Europe in ignorance and slavery.

Thank God our founders that wrote our constitution understood the importance of keeping religion out of government.

By the way DBT, I do not endorse atheism. I just realize a lot of evil is done in God's name.

Love that song.

I Think more accurately, it was the Roman Church until 1000 AD, when it officially became the Roman Catholic Church, which, honestly was filled with all kinds of paganism since Constantine. All of which drove the Reformers against its excesses and deviation from and additions to scripture.

Note, I did not condemn all RC’s or say none of them are Christ followers.

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