But the Catholic Church that you refer to didn’t even exist for the first 300 years of Christianity. But profound persecution of Christians did. And against all odds, Christisnity continued to spread like an airborne disease.
By the 3rd Century, Christianity had become a force to be reckoned with. And modern secular scholars and historians ‘still’ do not really understand how this came about.
What I wonder is at what point did the organized church take the wrong fork in the road and ally with the state. It could not have been abrupt thing but at some point they walked into the corral and were trapped.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Dispensationalism is at the root of the Rapture Heresy.
I am not sure that the belief in a pre-tribulation rapture is so much a heresy as it is genuine misintrepation of scripture. But I have witnessed genuine heresies in dispensational churches. I once saw a "pastor" tell his all consuming audience that the first sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak in tongues. That church was filled with people that spouted gibberish to "demonstrate" that they had the Holy Spirit. But one can only fake that for so long before the realization of the truth, that its being faked, sets in. That sort of preaching has led to much falling away. Sometimes it too hard to believe the simple truth that one is saved by grace through faith in Christ. Man just has to have a part in his own salvation and comes up with all this nonsense. Its just very hard to accept that Christ has already done it all and that we are unable to contribute at all to our own salvation. Man is a sinner, can't help but be a sinner, and is imperfect in the eyes of God and unacceptable in his own right. The only thing that makes man righteous and acceptable to God is the perfection of Christ that is imputed to us through faith. Christ is our only saviour and our faith is the lifeline between ourselves and the One that saves us.
X 1,000
Jesus Himself said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Many folks think their way is better than God's way. They boldly slander, defame, harass and "dox" to "prove it" too.
Check out the Sunday sermon posts for examples. Good to hear you clearly speak the truth.
But the Catholic Church that you refer to didn’t even exist for the first 300 years of Christianity. But profound persecution of Christians did. And against all odds, Christisnity continued to spread like an airborne disease.
By the 3rd Century, Christianity had become a force to be reckoned with. And modern secular scholars and historians ‘still’ do not really understand how this came about.
What I wonder is at what point did the organized church take the wrong fork in the road and ally with the state. It could not have been abrupt thing but at some point they walked into the corral and were trapped.
Dispensationalism is at the root of the Rapture Heresy.
I am not sure that the belief in a pre-tribulation rapture is so much a heresy as it is genuine misintrepation of scripture. But I have witnessed genuine heresies in dispensational churches. I once saw a "pastor" tell his all consuming audience that the first sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak in tongues. That church was filled with people that spouted gibberish to "demonstrate" that they had the Holy Spirit. But one can only fake that for so long before the realization of the truth, that its being faked, sets in. That sort of preaching has led to much falling away. Sometimes it too hard to believe the simple truth that one is saved by grace through faith in Christ. Man just has to have a part in his own salvation and comes up with all this nonsense. Its just very hard to accept that Christ has already done it all and that we are unable to contribute at all to our own salvation. Man is a sinner, can't help but be a sinner, and is imperfect in the eyes of God and unacceptable in his own right. The only thing that makes man righteous and acceptable to God is the perfection of Christ that is imputed to us through faith. Christ is our only saviour and our faith is the lifeline between ourselves and the One that saves us.
I saw that speaking in tongues transformation while attending a Pentecost church my girlfriend and her family belonged to.
I tried to hold back my laughter, clinching my teeth, tightened core and chest muscles, just certain I was going to blow out my ass ring from the pressure load.
And then I made this sound like a cat hissing while choking on a hairball at the same time. Heads turned my direction. I got a bewildering look from my girlfriends parents. I had to walk outside. Stayed out, too, until church let out.
I didn’t parse words with her dad, when he came outside. Straight up told him that was an act of bullshît. They all could believe that nonsense if they wanted to, but I wouldn’t be back.
Joker mofo’s believing in that horse shît!
SMH
🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
But the Catholic Church that you refer to didn’t even exist for the first 300 years of Christianity. But profound persecution of Christians did. And against all odds, Christisnity continued to spread like an airborne disease.
By the 3rd Century, Christianity had become a force to be reckoned with. And modern secular scholars and historians ‘still’ do not really understand how this came about.
What I wonder is at what point did the organized church take the wrong fork in the road and ally with the state. It could not have been abrupt thing but at some point they walked into the corral and were trapped.
Conversion of Constantine
I agree with efw. Constantine wanted to establish a single and imperially approved version of Christianity that would strengthen the Roman Empire.
But the Catholic Church that you refer to didn’t even exist for the first 300 years of Christianity. But profound persecution of Christians did. And against all odds, Christisnity continued to spread like an airborne disease.
By the 3rd Century, Christianity had become a force to be reckoned with. And modern secular scholars and historians ‘still’ do not really understand how this came about.
What I wonder is at what point did the organized church take the wrong fork in the road and ally with the state. It could not have been abrupt thing but at some point they walked into the corral and were trapped.
Conversion of Constantine
That may be the moment the gate was slammed shut but I've got to believe there were competing factions long before that and Constantine saw an advantage in bringing them in so the dominant faction could be controlled and the dominant Christian faction saw an opportunity to outlaw the true believers. I don't believe The Abyssinian Church of Ethiopia ever was brought to heel by the Catholics. And Ethiopia was the first ever nation declared Christian. An interesting thing I was told by an old history professor was that Ethiopia kept meticulous genealogy records and that Emperor Haile Selassie was a direct descendant of King Solomon and part of his very long title was "Conquering Lion of Judah", and that he was a devout Christian.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Not to be confused with the 2nd coming. The second coming is spoken of in greatest detail in Revelation 19:11-16. The rapture is very clear, the obvious difference is we meet Him in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 English Standard Version 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Beaver, I don't really blame you. I'm very skeptical of most anything man gets involved with nowadays. As my dad would say, people will screw up a one car funeral. That's an understatement.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
At some point along the way, Christianity…through the Catholic Church…did become inseparable from power over the people; and that power over the people was the most important thing to the church leaders, who sprinkled a little bit of Christianity into the mix. They intentionally and forcefully collected all of the Christian texts, bound em’ together, and chained em’ to the alter, and made possession of a Bible by the common man punishable by death.
And the Catholic Church leaders would determine what was and wasn’t taught, and how the Bible would be interpreted. No independent thought was allowed, and theological division was ‘heresy’ that was punishable by death. Believing the wrong thing was a crime. What you believed trumped how you behaved. Christianity became creedal; and in these creeds, there’s no mention of love, there’s no mention of behavior at all. You could subscribe to the creeds and still do anything you wanted.
And there was a reason creeds were like that...the creeds were generally signed off on by the Emperor’s, and they had some pretty bad behaviors...so the church leaders who were being funded by the Emperor’s had to be real careful with what they put into these creeds. Throughout all of this, no one was ever arrested or persecuted or executed for loving too much. It was all about what they did and didn’t believe. You had Christians arresting Christians for believing the wrong thing. You had sanctimonious power brokers who were self appointed gatekeepers of Heaven and hell.
They’d withhold communion, they’d withhold baptism, and threaten excommunication. The popes, the priests, the bishops, and the archbishops were the power mongers. Under their control, the church bore little resemblance to what it was in its earliest days. The Catholic Church was drunk on its own power and strength instead of trusting in God’s wisdom and providence. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And those in power were clearly pleased with the control and dominance they had over the lives of the believers. Those who profit the most from the status quo are the least inclined to let it go.
The Bible was written through and to the common man, and those in power snatched it from the grasp of the believers, so that its contents were known only to those in control, who then ‘interpreted’ it to the believers...to the benefit of those in control. Jesus’ crucifixion was a *finished* work; He said so Himself. But through the ritual of the mass, they sacrificed Him all over again every time the congregation gathered. Believers were led to believe that their salvation depended upon their ability to meet certain commands and adopt certain doctrines that the Catholic Church told them were from God...instead of putting their hope and salvation in the righteousness and resurrection of Jesus alone.
But there were always followers of Jesus who didn’t agree with the wrongs of the above.
To the original question, those who take a premillennial, futurist view of Revelation, would say the Rapture is imminent, the very next prophetical doctrine to take place. And I agree, the trajectories we see in our culture, our government’s overreach, general corruption, reflecting our corporate rejecting of a moral basis for what we do, is very telling. Not in a good way.
Regardless, our hope is in Jesus Christ.
Throughout the NT we see that Christ’s second coming is eminent. The Apostle Paul assures Christian’s in Thessalonica that He had not come yet showing there was fear there that He had. What we are seeing in the US today is clearly a general sign of the times which have existed since our Lord ascended. His return is eminent, praise His life giving name. On this I know we agree my brother!
As to the allusion to rapture in II Thess that passage can only be read to suggest that if one holds as a foundational presupposition that there are two peoples of God. If one rids himself of that false position the passage can be read as being about the second coming with no loopty loop at the bottom of the arrow .
As our dear brother the apostle John prayed, “Come Lord Jesus!!”
I’m not a dispensationalist and one doesn’t have to be one to take a pre-trib, premillennial view of Revelation. These folks are not a monolith of thought and belief and there are various nuanced views of a futurist hermeneutic of Revelation, ch’s 4-22.
The Protestant churches that identify as Reformed have become spiritually mushy, as a result of the Higher Crirticsm of the early 20th century, particularly that of the German theologians. The seminaries were deeply affected and the pastors graduating have not been the best and brightest. Their theology is often informed by the culture rather than the other way around. See the decades long struggle of those denominations struggling with homosexuality and how to respond to it. In the mean time the pulpits are filled with gay pastors, women pastors, prosperity theology, and the denial of whole parts of the scriptures and rampant spiritualization of other scriptures. And OT, NT (Revelation) prophecy is practically anathema to them. Most Reformed preaching is often topical so those pastors can avoid those topics they know nothing about, or are confused about, or worry will offend someone, or turn some away. Of course no denomination is completely free of those types.
As to the denial of ethnic Israel in eschatology you’ll have to turn many OT scriptures upside down and also many NT scriptures. In Genesis, where it starts, the unconditional promises to the patriarchs is characterized by words such as EVERLASTING and your DESCENDANTS after you, the context making clear “spiritual descendants” is not meant at all, and the living on the LAND is in view also.
Many Reformed views are still essentially Catholic as the Reformers, Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin were conflicted over some of their views, if not outright in error (infant baptism, eschatology). Thank God, He made salvation by grace through faith clear to them.
Much of Reformed doctrine is not Biblical doctrine but the traditions of men since the 4th century AD, begun by the views of Augustine and Constantine, and eventually becoming inculcated into RC theology.
It’s notable that in Revelations ch’s 2,3, five out of seven churches were criticized by Christ in John’s vision. His words and warnings should have great significance for us today, and put our ears on a swivel so to speak. Which is probably why He said, “ let those who have ears hear.”
The Greek word for rapture or being “caught up” is harpazio, and while “rapture” itself is not used, the idea of being caught up and spared judgement (the tribulation, the time of Jacob’s trouble) is.
God is completely sovereign and Christ the victor!
My perspective regarding all of these things is, if the Resurrection of Jesus really happened, then who gives a rip about misinterpretations and illusions and impressions regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…? If the Resurrection of Jesus is true, then who gives a flip about each having their own interpretations and beliefs regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…?
It doesn’t matter if the walls of Jericho really came down or not; it doesn’t matter if the universe was really created in 6 twenty four hour periods or not; it doesn’t matter if Jonah and the great fish is literal or analogous; and it doesn’t matter if the Rapture is really gonna happen or not.
If the Resurrection of Jesus really happened…if the Resurrection of Jesus is true…then it’s game on…! Period…! ‘It’ is what matters most, first and foremost, regardless of anything else, no matter what…! Everything else pales in comparison to ‘that’…!
My perspective regarding all of these things is, if the Resurrection of Jesus really happened, then who gives a rip about misinterpretations and illusions and impressions regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…? If the Resurrection of Jesus is true, then who gives a flip about each having their own interpretations and beliefs regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…?
It doesn’t matter if the walls of Jericho really came down or not; it doesn’t matter if the universe was really created in 6 twenty four hour periods or not; it doesn’t matter if Jonah and the great fish is literal or analogous; and it doesn’t matter if the Rapture is really gonna happen or not.
If the Resurrection of Jesus really happened…if the Resurrection of Jesus is true…then it’s game on…! Period…! ‘It’ is what matters most, first and foremost, regardless of anything else, no matter what…! Everything else pales in comparison to ‘that’…!
Preach that Truth, brother! Most here need It.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
Dispensationalism is at the root of the Rapture Heresy.
I am not sure that the belief in a pre-tribulation rapture is so much a heresy as it is genuine misintrepation of scripture. But I have witnessed genuine heresies in dispensational churches. I once saw a "pastor" tell his all consuming audience that the first sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the ability to speak in tongues. That church was filled with people that spouted gibberish to "demonstrate" that they had the Holy Spirit. But one can only fake that for so long before the realization of the truth, that its being faked, sets in. That sort of preaching has led to much falling away. Sometimes it too hard to believe the simple truth that one is saved by grace through faith in Christ. Man just has to have a part in his own salvation and comes up with all this nonsense. Its just very hard to accept that Christ has already done it all and that we are unable to contribute at all to our own salvation. Man is a sinner, can't help but be a sinner, and is imperfect in the eyes of God and unacceptable in his own right. The only thing that makes man righteous and acceptable to God is the perfection of Christ that is imputed to us through faith. Christ is our only saviour and our faith is the lifeline between ourselves and the One that saves us.
I saw that speaking in tongues transformation while attending a Pentecost church my girlfriend and her family belonged to.
I tried to hold back my laughter, clinching my teeth, tightened core and chest muscles, just certain I was going to blow out my ass ring from the pressure load.
And then I made this sound like a cat hissing while choking on a hairball at the same time. Heads turned my direction. I got a bewildering look from my girlfriends parents. I had to walk outside. Stayed out, too, until church let out.
I didn’t parse words with her dad, when he came outside. Straight up told him that was an act of bullshît. They all could believe that nonsense if they wanted to, but I wouldn’t be back.
Joker mofo’s believing in that horse shît!
SMH
🦫
Just Google Ken Hagin. He's dead but people still eat this stuff up. It's really horrifying.
But the Catholic Church that you refer to didn’t even exist for the first 300 years of Christianity. But profound persecution of Christians did. And against all odds, Christisnity continued to spread like an airborne disease.
By the 3rd Century, Christianity had become a force to be reckoned with. And modern secular scholars and historians ‘still’ do not really understand how this came about.
What I wonder is at what point did the organized church take the wrong fork in the road and ally with the state. It could not have been abrupt thing but at some point they walked into the corral and were trapped.
Without Constantine, it's likely that there would have been no Christianity as a state religion. Paul and Constantine were the great promoters of the faith.
To the original question, those who take a premillennial, futurist view of Revelation, would say the Rapture is imminent, the very next prophetical doctrine to take place. And I agree, the trajectories we see in our culture, our government’s overreach, general corruption, reflecting our corporate rejecting of a moral basis for what we do, is very telling. Not in a good way.
Regardless, our hope is in Jesus Christ.
Throughout the NT we see that Christ’s second coming is eminent. The Apostle Paul assures Christian’s in Thessalonica that He had not come yet showing there was fear there that He had. What we are seeing in the US today is clearly a general sign of the times which have existed since our Lord ascended. His return is eminent, praise His life giving name. On this I know we agree my brother!
As to the allusion to rapture in II Thess that passage can only be read to suggest that if one holds as a foundational presupposition that there are two peoples of God. If one rids himself of that false position the passage can be read as being about the second coming with no loopty loop at the bottom of the arrow .
As our dear brother the apostle John prayed, “Come Lord Jesus!!”
I’m not a dispensationalist and one doesn’t have to be one to take a pre-trib, premillennial view of Revelation. These folks are not a monolith of thought and belief and there are various nuanced views of a futurist hermeneutic of Revelation, ch’s 4-22.
The Protestant churches that identify as Reformed have become spiritually mushy, as a result of the Higher Crirticsm of the early 20th century, particularly that of the German theologians. The seminaries were deeply affected and the pastors graduating have not been the best and brightest. Their theology is often informed by the culture rather than the other way around. See the decades long struggle of those denominations struggling with homosexuality and how to respond to it. In the mean time the pulpits are filled with gay pastors, women pastors, prosperity theology, and the denial of whole parts of the scriptures and rampant spiritualization of other scriptures. And OT, NT (Revelation) prophecy is practically anathema to them. Most Reformed preaching is often topical so those pastors can avoid those topics they know nothing about, or are confused about, or worry will offend someone, or turn some away. Of course no denomination is completely free of those types.
As to the denial of ethnic Israel in eschatology you’ll have to turn many OT scriptures upside down and also many NT scriptures. In Genesis, where it starts, the unconditional promises to the patriarchs is characterized by words such as EVERLASTING and your DESCENDANTS after you, the context making clear “spiritual descendants” is not meant at all, and the living on the LAND is in view also.
Many Reformed views are still essentially Catholic as the Reformers, Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin were conflicted over some of their views, if not outright in error (infant baptism, eschatology). Thank God, He made salvation by grace through faith clear to them.
Much of Reformed doctrine is not Biblical doctrine but the traditions of men since the 4th century AD, begun by the views of Augustine and Constantine, and eventually becoming inculcated into RC theology.
It’s notable that in Revelations ch’s 2,3, five out of seven churches were criticized by Christ in John’s vision. His words and warnings should have great significance for us today, and put our ears on a swivel so to speak. Which is probably why He said, “ let those who have ears hear.”
The Greek word for rapture or being “caught up” is harpazio, and while “rapture” itself is not used, the idea of being caught up and spared judgement (the tribulation, the time of Jacob’s trouble) is.
God is completely sovereign and Christ the victor!
Simply outstanding George. Nicely done.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
My perspective regarding all of these things is, if the Resurrection of Jesus really happened, then who gives a rip about misinterpretations and illusions and impressions regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…? If the Resurrection of Jesus is true, then who gives a flip about each having their own interpretations and beliefs regarding other details and theology pertaining to the Bible…?
It doesn’t matter if the walls of Jericho really came down or not; it doesn’t matter if the universe was really created in 6 twenty four hour periods or not; it doesn’t matter if Jonah and the great fish is literal or analogous; and it doesn’t matter if the Rapture is really gonna happen or not.
If the Resurrection of Jesus really happened…if the Resurrection of Jesus is true…then it’s game on…! Period…! ‘It’ is what matters most, first and foremost, regardless of anything else, no matter what…! Everything else pales in comparison to ‘that’…!
How do we know about the resurrection of Christ? Where is it revealed to us? In the scriptures. If they were filled with myth, what part of it, if any, would you believe? BTW, no archeological find has ever disproved any location or history, as it is told of in the scriptures.
How do we know about the resurrection of Christ? Where is it revealed to us? In the scriptures. If they were filled with myth, what part of it, if any, would you believe? BTW, no archeological find has ever disproved any location or history, as it is told of in the scriptures. It matters a great deal.
I respectfully disagree. If the Resurrection of Jesus is true…if it did in fact really happen…then ‘that’ is what matters the absolute most. Fine theological points that were once considered important and worth debating oughta evaporate in light of the reality of Jesus’ Resurrection.
The foundation of Christianity is ‘not’ an inspired book, but rather the events that inspired the book; events that inspired writers…under the guidance of the Holy Spirit…to document these events, along with insights and conversations, with the pivotal and founding event being the Resurrection of Jesus.
While it’s true that we would likely not know of these events had they not been documented, it’s equally true that they were documented hundreds of years before there ever was a Christian Bible; and it’s equally true that these events, not the record of these events, are what birthed Jesus’ movement.
The Bible didn’t create Christianity. Christianity is the reason the Bible was created. Christianity would still be true even if there were no Bible’s.
I dont hold any hope for any organized religions who think they know WTH is going on beyond the basics when they "figured things out" ages ago and before many modern developments on earth with humanity occured as they have within the last hundred years.
How can any religious organization have things figured out when they are made of men of which none are perfect. We know mens ways arent HIS ways so I'm not putting much faith in what men figured out ages ago.
Organized religion doesnt even acknowledge that they and their theology has been successfully infiltrated and affected by Lucifer.
They cant, or wont, tell us when Satan scattered his seed of tares in the fertile field with Gods seed of wheat.
They lie to us telling us we are gentiles when the Northern Empire called Israelites were captured and enslaved for ages by the Assyrians (who became the Ayrian nations) before working their way to freedom and crossing over the Caucasus Mts and spreading to the great western shores.
They cant make the connection Denmark was from the Hebrew tribe of Dan and carried the Mark of Dan nor that Great Britain was a contraction from Great Birth Nation.
They made their deal with the devil when they discarded our God given US Constitution and agreed to not vet into politics to escape taxation and therefore they dont carry the message of God to the people about the scum in govt who steal from the working class to buy votes.
Didnt HE say one is to provide for ones self and ones family and if they didnt they are no better than unbelievers? How many attend church and live off the labor of others and yet think they are going to Heaven because they put someone else's money in the plate?
There is truly going to be a great gnashing of teeth and many of HIS will perish due to lack of knowledge just as HE said. Who thinks our organized religions wont be held responsible for leading people astray?
Our organized religions mostly lie and say the Jews killed Christ when it was the false Jews called Saducees and Pharasees. How do we know they were not of Him as were the Jews? In John when Jesus is being hounded by them and they claimed they were of the Father. Jesus said you are not of the Farther or you would know me. Thats why GOD said something to the effect of 'Woa be unto those who call themselves Jews but do lie".
Now we have almost every religion in the US sending money to help those very same false AshkeNAZI Jews running Ukraine and the WEF and NWO.
Who is "the evil one". Satan. The first viper? What does your church tell you about who HE is referring to in 1 John 3: 11-12 where HE said Cain is from "the evil one"?
Connect the dots because organized religion wont, they've been decieved by Lucifer, like Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden.
What organized religion explains that Jesus wasnt lying or calling people name when he whipped the money changers (banksters) out of the Holy Temple when He called them VIPERS and that He knew their father, the murderer from the beginning. Where was the beginning? Who was the murderer from the beginning? Cain. They were vipers and were whose sons? They were Cains sons. Where do vipers come from? Other vipers. Who was the FIRST VIPER. Who did GOD cut the legs off of and make crawl in the dirt and eat dirt and strike mens heels? The first viper, Satan.
Hes still biting mens heels, in our organized religions. Those same organized religions will turn against Christ again as they did before they crucified Christ. They are doing so now, by protecting the child traffickers in the worlds govts and the Azov Nazis in Ukraine.
So, I have no interest in the pre this or post that. As far as I'm concerned its men trying to build structures of men and for men and not for HIM.
Last edited by jaguartx; 05/06/22.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
.
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