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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,991 Likes: 7 |
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think? I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about. I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often. I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap. So, you think your advice is any more credible? Give me a break.... and apparently your reading comprehension isn't too good either... Yeah I think deflave's advice is miles better
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,755 |
I'm a big guy, 6'2", 275lbs, haven't had a "butt" for decades now (I'm 69 ha). I carry the Glock 23 in a Kydex IWB holster with a good, stiff leather, purpose made Gun Belt. I have a local made 1 1/2" leather gun belt for cargo shorts/jeans a a 1" black leather (Galco) for dress suit pants. I carried a full sized 1911 for over 20yrs with the same set up, except a good leather IWB until the Kydex became stout enough to trust. Avoid all cheap "chicken skin" IWB "Uncle Mike" kind of stuff. If you use a thumb strap, have every holster with a thumb strap. If open top, all open top...muscle memory. The Buffalo Bore +P 100gr hard cast is a real penetrator in the .380...just saying.
Last edited by Jim_Knight; 05/10/22.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,343 Likes: 34
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 86,343 Likes: 34 |
I think fear of printing is overblown. Most people won’t give a second thought to a hip bulge other than someone who understands CC.
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 3,878 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 3,878 Likes: 2 |
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think? I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about. I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often. I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap. Like
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I've been following several self defense sites for several years now and my views toward self defense with a handgun have changed significantly due to this.
The discussion on this site and most sites are that a carry weapon needs to be able to inflict a fatal impact or it isn't suitable for concealed carry. I can get behind this to a point- if you are in a situation where you actually have to use a gun to defend yourself the adrenaline is going to be like a faucet being opened up, your hands probably won't be steady, your brain will probably freeze unless you have practiced enough to have muscle memory to go through the motions, and the attacker is going to be advancing on you... in that case you want to end this as soon as possible . And when I am in a season where wearing enough clothing to cover up a larger weapon is feasible I prefer to do this, but....
Most of the self defense types these days advise two things in every case that I have seen- if you have the opportunity, run from the danger as quickly as your feet will carry you- and second, if you have to use your weapon shoot center mass and as accurately as possible even it it takes a little more time to aim and shoot. One or two well placed shots is way better than spraying shots everywhere and not hitting anything except bystanders, cars, etc....
Here is where I have modified my behavior and believe it is worth considering. During warm weather I seldom have sufficient clothing on to conceal my .45 ACP carry weapon so I often didn't carry in those conditions. I felt naked a lot of times and especially now with the homelessness problems and uptick in crime. So I started looking into what self defense really meant to me and basically what I realized is I need to slow down or stop an assailant, but not necessarily kill them. This had a major effect on my outlook on weapons choices and why I ended up purchasing a .380 for a carry weapon. I can carry it all the time and not feel it is going to show enough that I have to worry about some Karen going ballistic on me in public and it will get the job done. I have shifted my priorities to where I feel if I can land a couple shots center mass or in the head/neck area with a .380 or even a .22, it will be enough to stop or slow the attack enough for me to get proper distance or defend those around me. I'm pretty sure dumping a mag of .380 or .22 into somebody at relatively close range is going to give just about anyone a very bad day...
The whole point most of these self defense instructors seem to be getting across is the first objective is to get away from the threat as a first priority. Stopping the assailant and protecting yourself and others is secondary. And alerting the police given the time frame is way down the list once your adrenaline calms down a bit, hopefully...
I know there will be lots of back and forth on this... what do you think? I think the advice you’ve been given is absurd and whoever gave it to you does not have the first fugking clue what they’re talking about. I also (based on your warm weather comments) don’t think you’ve taken concealed carry seriously enough to have done it very often. I’ve read some schit before but justifying a cartridge choice because it may not kill them as dead, and fear of being harassed by a woman for excessive printing has to be toward the top of the absurd heap. So, you think your advice is any more credible? Give me a break.... and apparently your reading comprehension isn't too good either... I don’t think my advice is more credible. I know it is.
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,545 Likes: 68
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,545 Likes: 68 |
Nike flippy-floppies, black church socks
Frank Cannon 2” snubbie ankle holstered
A real campfire badass, IWB holster boogers with insulin pump
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,879 Likes: 59
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,879 Likes: 59 |
I reckon I am entered if I find myself in that situation.
No way I will be able gather up all my family and escape in time.
Like herding cats.
I am MAGA.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,184 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,184 Likes: 2 |
I think fear of printing is overblown. Most people won’t give a second thought to a hip bulge other than someone who understands CC. I do front pocket carry. Works winter or summer. The only time I ever been made was by someone in the know, a work acquaintance and reserve sheriffs deputy. He just gave a knowing nod as I walked past him. People carry so much crap now with phones, wallets, chargers etc. I don't worry about printing. The only thing I do is make sure when I'm buying pants or shorts the pockets are deep enough to cover my guns.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,184 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,184 Likes: 2 |
My problem is I ain't got much ass so carrying one of the 1911s I'm constantly having to pull my pants up because they start sagging. Suspenders Roger  Kahr PM 9 in a pocket holster is easy to conceal not very fast to draw from when seated in the truck though. Never even looked at a .380 because the Kahr is plenty small enough for me. I'm all about retreat if possible but a bad knee and back have lowered the bar about what presents the possibility of grave harm to myself. I had to justify my reasons for wanting a concealed carry license here and listed that orthopedic issues made run/hide difficult. No problem obtaining a CCL.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,184 Likes: 2
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,184 Likes: 2 |
I reckon I am entered if I find myself in that situation.
No way I will be able gather up all my family and escape in time.
Like herding cats. Me: (Sensing danger)Turn, RUN!! Wife: What, why, what is wrong with you?!
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664 |
It seems here in WV the three questions are:
Is he/she/they white?
Are they a druggie?
Is it even remotely believable they were a threat?
Findings: DSAF - Did Society A Favor
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,413
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,413 |
Don't associate with stupid people, don't get into stupid situations, don't make stupid choices. This will keep you from having to shoot people almost all the time. Unfortunately most on this board are truly screwed.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined.”
Patrick Henry
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,545 Likes: 68
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 67,545 Likes: 68 |
Not everyone is worried about printing
Dude with “military emotional PTSD pitbull” with his spurs jinglin and janglin on Lucchese boots wandering around Lowes with drop rigs on both thighs.
Karen shouldn’t say anything to Leon in the Publix with his LCP in his Kohl’s tacticool khakis.
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,840
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 17,840 |
When i see open carry it's usually a Taurus......
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,291 Likes: 24
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,291 Likes: 24 |
Printing is one thing, and I'd agree with others that the absolute vast majority of people, even in deep red areas wouldn't realize that bulge on my side is a gun and not my huge wrap around schlong.
With normal winter cloths, sometimes the bottom of my holster and barrel end are visible if sitting down, but again I seriously doubt most people would realize what it is.
In summer, when dressed like the slut that I am, my LCR 38 +P is in my front pocket. I dearly love that LCR but I do wish I could get my main carry piece better concealed. With just a T shirt and shorts on it is basically open carry. It is what it is.
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
My problem is I ain't got much ass so carrying one of the 1911s I'm constantly having to pull my pants up because they start sagging. Suspenders Roger Kahr PM 9 in a pocket holster is easy to conceal not very fast to draw from when seated in the truck though. Never even looked at a .380 because the Kahr is plenty small enough for me. I'm all about retreat if possible but a bad knee and back have lowered the bar about what presents the possibility of grave harm to myself. I had to justify my reasons for wanting a concealed carry license here and listed that orthopedic issues made run/hide difficult. No problem obtaining a CCL. A health issue got you a CCL in California? 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,473 Likes: 27
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,473 Likes: 27 |
I think fear of printing is overblown. Most people won’t give a second thought to a hip bulge other than someone who understands CC. Yep. Most dipschitts are too busy talking or texting on their damn cellphone to notice “printing” And I couldn’t give two schitts if they do notice. Wear either Carhartt or Riggs work shorts and a T-shirt mostly during the hot TX summers. Unless I’m going to a nice restaurant or a an event such as a funeral. And I can easily conceal a full sized Glock or 1911 with a good belt and holster. wearing shorts & a T-shirt. Always carry at least a 45 ACP or 357 Sig as my primary weapon. With 2 spare mags. Usually have a Sig P365 9mm or a Ruger LCP 380 in my Left front pocket as a BUG. When the Ruger LCP 380 is in my pocket, it’s loaded with the Buffalo Bore Hard Cast Outdoorsman Load. And yes, awareness and avoidance can be good things. But I’m too old and stove up from too many horse wrecks and riding bulls when I was young and too dumb to know better. So running is not an option for me. Been carrying legally for 25 years. Never drawn my weapon. Common sense and awareness are your best tools besides for your handgun.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 23,506 |
Not everyone is worried about printing
Dude with “military emotional PTSD pitbull” with his spurs jinglin and janglin on Lucchese boots wandering around Lowes with drop rigs on both thighs.
Karen shouldn’t say anything to Leon in the Publix with his LCP in his Kohl’s tacticool khakis. That was AlwaysOutdoors. 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,066 Likes: 11
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 5,066 Likes: 11 |
Best to avoid trouble if possible. Shooting someone is going to cause problems. I won't back away in my own home though. Anywhere else I would try to get away from trouble first and shoot second. I really don't want to have to shoot someone.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 12,664 |
Don't associate with stupid people, don't get into stupid situations, don't make stupid choices. Good advice. I don't look to get into a gun fight as they are dangerous. The problem here is drugs. How bad an addict needs a fix is far they'll take it. They are not rational.
The Karma bus always has an empty seat when it comes around.- High Brass
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
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