Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Rds on pistol? Yea or nay

Well, that is the point of the study.

Adding a carry optic to a handgun is almost certainly not going to provide an instantaneous benefit to the shooter. That benefit, if it ever to be realized, must come with training. If the shooter doesn't train with it, it m,ay never benefit him.

People that ask if a carry optic will benefit them, the only correct answer is "maybe."

Now, we're on the same page. Glad to help.

I still need to wring this bish out.

I thought Stick was God.

Over the last several years, I've shot USPSA Level 1, 2 and 3 matches that involved shooting 5 stages to 12-14 stages (0745 hammer down and finishing around 1900) in conditions that included blowing dirt (low visibility and sand everywhere), 30-40 mph winds, 110 deg temps, 15 deg temps, rain, sleet, snow, and everything in-between. Never once did any of the crap produced from those environments keep me from using the dot to hit my targets where I wanted to. This was using Leupold DPP, Sig Romeo 3 Max, and Holosun red dots.

If you want a gun that you count on to run, you keep it somewhat clean, but most importantly oiled. You're going to want to keep your sight clean too. But, even when you can't and you're experiencing horrible conditions, the above isn't going to keep the red dot from functioning if it is a quality dot.

As an RO at those same Level 1-3 matches, I've also seen a lot of shooters in those conditions and their gear still running and their red dot sights still working in those conditions.

Hey toad.

I like your big long barrel.

I read yesterday that Carry Optics has become far and away the most popular Division now.

It's getting there. Level 3 a couple of weeks ago had the following:

Carry Optics - 109 shooters
Production - 23
Limited - 49
Open - 116
PCC - 32
Revolver - 3
Single Stack - 7

That's 225 guns with red dots (not counting the PCC folks) and 82 without red dots.

Your base pads are gonna be seen by the enemy.

They’re so non-tactical.

Even worse, sometimes I put smiley faces on them with a sharpie.

Some thoughts for you monkeys before I roll out this morning:

Don't fall for the trap about speed and irons vs speed and dot sights as it applies to close distance. I fell in this trap with my first couple forays into optics on defensive handguns and it's a fallacy. The site does not make you slower. You are making you slower because you're not learning. You're reverting.

When you figure out the correct presentation you will find that the dot being somewhere else is because you are not gripping and presenting your pistol correctly. This is something that you're not seeing with irons and it's the cause of a lot of your "What the fugks" when you head downrange and look at targets. If your grip is pushing left, the dot will tell you. If your grip is pushing things right, the dot will tell you. If you're heeling, the dot will tell you. If you're sending rounds south of the intended target because you're pushing the gun at the apex of your draw, the dot will tell you. The dot will tell you by not being there when you hoped/thought it would.

To save range time and money (or do it at the range if you want) put a holster on and set your timer with a par time that suits you. If you're a one shot, 2 seconds, from the 7yd line guy with irons, then set your par time to 2 seconds. Gun should come straight up and out while your support hand moves toward the center of your chest. When they meet, slide the gun toward the target. Don't bring your head down. Don't lean forward. Don't "blade" toward the target. Just stand there, draw with both hands in motion, and push the pistol toward your target while keeping the top of the slide parallel to the deck. Trigger should be breaking with the dot on what you want to hit as the par time beeps.

Do this 10,000 times and reduce your par times accordingly.

Once you get your old bullschit out of the way (this will happen because not seeing the dot is going to fix you) you are ready for some range time. While on the range use an iron equipped handgun that you've proven effective with. Run some drills with it, run some drills with the dot. If your dot is still slower you're doing something wrong. This is due to your not listening to Flave's previous writings. Listen to Flave.

If things are where you want them to be, reserve some ammo for 25 and 50 yard shooting. You may find that your par time at the 5yd line somehow became the same at the 25yd line. Your brain will whisper something like "holy fugk, Flave really is God." While that may be true the reality is that the dot is simply allowing you to do what you've always been capable of doing. It's doing this by showing you what's wrong with you. It's showing you by disappearing until you get it right.

If your optic equipped handgun came with irons that co-witness, great. But ignore the irons. Tape over them if you have to. If your optic equipped pistol did not come equipped with co-witness irons, leave it that way while you're learning. I find some of the worst advice you can give a guy is using the front or rear sight to assist with finding the dot. You're just keeping yourself in the same old rut. They are there in case the optic fails. Nothing more. Ignore them until you've mastered the dot. Which is really mastering your grip and presentation from the holster.

The issues of fogging, dirt, etc. have (in my experience) been moot. I live in what most would consider a mildly humid region and while there is a thin film of fog when you exit an A/C'd building or vehicle, it would in no way impair your shooting of a person that was in need of shooting. On most quality optics, you won't even know it's there.

Last but not least, when you read or hear about a person that claims competition shooting has no relevance to real world application of force, you are reading or hearing the words of a fugking idiot. While some types of gear, teaching points, and tactics may not be transferable to on-duty use of firearms, the vast majority of it is. When you reach regional, state, and national level champion type shooting, you are in the F1 world of handgunning. If those people make a separate classification for dot sights vs. irons, you can rest afugkingssured that they have determined the dot sight gives an advantage that irons cannot compete with. Shooters being comparable of course.


You're welcome,
Flave

That's what I love about the 'fire. Polite, reasoned discourse and mutual respect for opposing viewpoints.