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He might have liked this one, too. This one's made by Bark River Knives back in the very early days of that company's existence, so it probably has some collector value, too. Great company, by the way. They will bend over backwards for their customers.

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by johnw
Roger's Bart thread got me to thinking of and looking at Bowies from various sources.

Being that there are different styles and sizes of Bowie's, what are the essential attributes needed to call it a Bowie Knife?

Early on, seems like most any big knife carried for the purpose could be called a “Bowie knife”, at the same time identifiable Bowies might be called “Arkansas toothpicks” or “Missouri belt knives”.

As best I can gather, by the Civil War at least knives called “Bowie’s” had clip points and crossguards while “Arkansas toothpicks” were long pointed daggers.

I’m wondering how much terminology was actually driven by the marketing of British manufacturers that eventually made so many of these knives. For example, this 19th Century British-made Bowie isn’t a Bowie....


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

...it’s a “Buffalo knife”, sold in Canada. I have read that Bowie type Sheffield blades exported to South America were sold as “Gaucho knives”.


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Most pre-20th century knives seemed to lack a guard of any sort. I wonder if folks lost fingers when stabbing their opponents.

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Originally Posted by milespatton
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Miles! Great to hear from you! I’m sure you’re right.

There doesn’t seem to be any State more invested in Bowie knives than Arkansas.

Arkansas senate names the Bowie knife as the official state knife

Mike sometime back, might have been in the 1990's sometime, I was working at Hope, Arkansas and there were several men staying there that was attending a knife making class at Old Washington, supposedly in the same building that Black had His shop. Not sure but I think they made Old Washing a State Park, or at least some of it. It was also the State Capitol for a while during the Civil War. miles

Miles, I googled up the Bill Bagwell that Bob mentioned, he did a stint at the Old Washington Forge.

https://www.knifemagazine.com/abs-founding-member-bill-bagwell-has-passed-away/


"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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JMHO- I've always thought of the Edwin Forrest
knife as the real thing. Supposedly allegedly
J Bowie personally handed it to him

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Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Originally Posted by milespatton
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Miles! Great to hear from you! I’m sure you’re right.

There doesn’t seem to be any State more invested in Bowie knives than Arkansas.

Arkansas senate names the Bowie knife as the official state knife

Mike sometime back, might have been in the 1990's sometime, I was working at Hope, Arkansas and there were several men staying there that was attending a knife making class at Old Washington, supposedly in the same building that Black had His shop. Not sure but I think they made Old Washing a State Park, or at least some of it. It was also the State Capitol for a while during the Civil War. miles

Miles, I googled up the Bill Bagwell that Bob mentioned, he did a stint at the Old Washington Forge.

https://www.knifemagazine.com/abs-founding-member-bill-bagwell-has-passed-away/

He was also a member here.


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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Originally Posted by milespatton
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Miles! Great to hear from you! I’m sure you’re right.

There doesn’t seem to be any State more invested in Bowie knives than Arkansas.

Arkansas senate names the Bowie knife as the official state knife

Mike sometime back, might have been in the 1990's sometime, I was working at Hope, Arkansas and there were several men staying there that was attending a knife making class at Old Washington, supposedly in the same building that Black had His shop. Not sure but I think they made Old Washing a State Park, or at least some of it. It was also the State Capitol for a while during the Civil War. miles

Miles, I googled up the Bill Bagwell that Bob mentioned, he did a stint at the Old Washington Forge.

https://www.knifemagazine.com/abs-founding-member-bill-bagwell-has-passed-away/

He was also a member here.

I did not know that, not surprising tho given some of the extraordinary talent around these boards.


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Most pre-20th century knives seemed to lack a guard of any sort. I wonder if folks lost fingers when stabbing their opponents.
I've always wanted a Deleon subhilt.


God bless Texas-----------------------
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Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
I’m not sure Jim Bowie ever saw what we call a “Bowie knife” today.

Here’s one commissioned by his brother Rezin, 1830’s after his brother Jim’s death. Rezin after all was the guy who had the original Bowie knife made for Jim that he used in that famous sandbar brawl, 1827. So Rezin prob’ly knew what Jim’s knif(ives) looked like.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

https://officialalamo.medium.com/march-artifact-of-the-month-searles-bowie-knife-5c491a3eb3a0

I remember seeing one very similar to that one on display at the Alamo about 20 years ago that was attributed to Jim’s brother Resin Bowie.

Do they still have something similar on display there, Mike ???


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This is what I've always considered a Bowie.
Built this one for my Dad's 70th birthday. Elephant ivory, solid silver & 1095/15n20 basic Damascus.[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
Shively-Perkins custom made by Nathan Allen for Scott McMahon, site director at Presidio La Bahia Historic site.

Damn cool blade. Just a big azz butcher knife. Perkins was a US Dragoon officer. Shively the maker in Philadelphia. I believe it was Rezin Bowie who presented this blade to Perkins.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

My best guess would be the Real Bowie knife carried by Jim would be closest to this one of Bob’s.


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
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Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
Tks Bob, in my reading and browsing I hadn’t come across mention of Lucy Bowie and the Huber knife, nor of knives of designs intended to be issued to troops.

I expect I’ll get to see the infamous Musso Bowie when the new Alamo museum opens, the one that has been befuddling people for like sixty years now, it even made it into the 2004 Alamo movie....

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

https://www.knifemagazine.com/texas...-knives-slated-for-display-at-the-alamo/

The “Hollywood Version of The Bowie knife”
is what I call that style of Bowie knifes.
While cool looking, I’m betting they are NOTHING like the Original Bowie.
Great article Mike. Thanks for posting.


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Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by Birdwatcher
I’m not sure Jim Bowie ever saw what we call a “Bowie knife” today.

Here’s one commissioned by his brother Rezin, 1830’s after his brother Jim’s death. Rezin after all was the guy who had the original Bowie knife made for Jim that he used in that famous sandbar brawl, 1827. So Rezin prob’ly knew what Jim’s knif(ives) looked like.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

https://officialalamo.medium.com/march-artifact-of-the-month-searles-bowie-knife-5c491a3eb3a0

I remember seeing one very similar to that one on display at the Alamo about 20 years ago that was attributed to Jim’s brother Resin Bowie.

Do they still have something similar on display there, Mike ???

Yes, almost certainly same one you recall I believe.


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Originally Posted by Ranger99
JMHO- I've always thought of the Edwin Forrest
knife as the real thing. Supposedly allegedly
J Bowie personally handed it to him
Bark River's version of it.

[Linked Image from images.knifecenter.com]

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Ranger99
JMHO- I've always thought of the Edwin Forrest
knife as the real thing. Supposedly allegedly
J Bowie personally handed it to him
Bark River's version of it.

[Linked Image from images.knifecenter.com]

Dang. Cheapest version I found online is $307. with a Micarta handle.


"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
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Originally Posted by chlinstructor
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Ranger99
JMHO- I've always thought of the Edwin Forrest
knife as the real thing. Supposedly allegedly
J Bowie personally handed it to him
Bark River's version of it.

[Linked Image from images.knifecenter.com]

Dang. Cheapest version I found online is $307. with a Micarta handle.
Yep.

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This is another one of mine, made super sharp by a professional knife sharpener who has a business doing that near me. A Korean fellow.

This is made by Hibben. It's called the Cody Bowie.

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Robtattoo
This is what I've always considered a Bowie.
Built this one for my Dad's 70th birthday. Elephant ivory, solid silver & 1095/15n20 basic Damascus.[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Beautiful blade.


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Here in Texas, Noah Smithwick, one of our best sources on early Texas, has it that after the Sandbar Fight, his friend Jim Bowie had that knife that saved his life polished, given an ivory hilt, and carried openly in a fancy sheath.

Smithwick was a skilled Blacksmith and says that Bowie had him make a copy and that demand for Bowie copies was so high he created a pattern and sold many.

This ties in to a quote I have read somewhere stated in these years every piece of spare iron west of the Mississippi was beaten into Bowie blades.

So in the 1830’s a sudden proliferation of Bowie knives across the American South. Not so much tools as expensive fashion/social statements and an indication that the wearer was prepared to do combat.

Guys in that culture were rather easily offended, recreational drinking of whiskey was a norm, and now everyone’s showing up in the saloon with big honking Bowie knives. They say when you carry a hammer everything starts to look like a nail.

Not much talked about but an epidemic of what we would call “knife violence” sweeps the South; guys getting cut down in stupid fights.

So in response to all this you get “knife control”.....

https://militaryhistory.fandom.com/wiki/Bowie_knife#cite_note-33

In 1837, one year after Bowie’s death at the Alamo, the Alabama legislature passed laws imposing a $100 transfer tax on 'Bowie' knives and decreeing that anyone carrying a Bowie knife who subsequently killed a person in a fight would be charged with premeditated murder.

Louisiana and Virginia prohibited the concealed carrying of any Bowie knife, while Mississippi made such knives illegal when carried concealed or when used as a dueling weapon.

In Tennessee, the use of Bowie knives to settle disputes on the spot so alarmed state legislators that in 1838 they not only made the concealed carrying of a Bowie knife a criminal felony, but also prohibited the use of a Bowie knife in any altercation, regardless of self-defense or other mitigating excuse:

"That if any person carrying any knife or weapon known as a Bowie knife...or any knife or weapon that shall in form, shape, or size resemble a Bowie knife, on a sudden encounter, shall cut or stab another person with such knife or weapon, whether death ensues or not, such person so stabbing or cutting shall be guilty of a felony, and upon conviction thereof shall be confined in the jail and penitentiary house of this State, for a period of time not less than three years”.


No word on what specific features determined if a knife was a “Bowie knife” or not.


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This is a custom Bowie made by a fellow named Voorhis, name engraved on the blade. I bought it some thirty years ago or more. Don't know much about the maker.

[Linked Image]

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