Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Question RE: Annealing and Number of Times Fired

I'm jumping into the annealing game. I've kept my brass separated by whether it was fired 2x, 3x 4x, etc.

Once I anneal, does the counter reset to zero? That is, can I mix brass that was fired 3x before annealing with brass that was fired 5x before annealing and not have problems? Or do I still need to track the number of firings?

thanks,


Okie John

After annealing the cases should all be in a similar ductile state.

I'd still separate those that fired two or three times from those that were fired 10 or more times.

In my experience you need to keep track of the number of firings--and not mix brass that's been fired a various number of times. Or at least that's what this OCD handloader has been doing for many years.

I never let them go more than 4 firings before annealing, having experienced split necks more than occasionally after 5 firings.

Should annealing be performed after every firing for optimal lifespan?

Like Mule Deer said, 4 firings is right.

I have one box of Winchester .375 H&H brass that I use for cast bullet shooting in my Ruger #1 Tropical. The count on the box shows they have been reloaded 20 times so far. The isn't a really light one running IIRC 50 something grains of either IMR or H4350. The load came from an article in an American Rifleman booklet I bought at the NRA convention in Phoenix AZ in IIRC, 1918 or 82.

The brass for this rifle is loaded five times. Afer the fifth load the brass is annealed and trimmed if necessary. Also, they are neck sized and a full length resize is done right after annealing. Crimping would shorten neck life so as the rifle is a single shot no crimp is used.

The load is used as practice quick reloading tool. Recoil is about like a stiff heaving bullet load in a lightweight 30-06. the 20 rounds give ten practice loads with sufficient recoil to simulate a hunting scenario.
Paul B.

I think its time for a tutorial on candle annealing, to keep it simple.

I kept records and tested accuracy after annealing. I anneal after every fourth reload. Accuracy was always best on the second firing after annealing. Slight differences on all the other loads.

How do you anneal? The reason I ask if it's done correctly, the accuracy should be great from the first firing afterward. If it takes until the second shot to shoot best, then the annealing probably was done too "hot," which isn't uncommon, especially among handloaders who follow older instructions to heat the neck until it starts to glow. They don't have to get that hot to anneal.

The cases for my benchrest rifle result in just as fine accuracy in the first shot after annealing as subsequent shots--and the rifle is accurate enough to tell.

Annealing is a simple task that some want to turn into rocket surgery.

You should only be annealing the case neck and not the body.
I use a propane torch in a darkened room.
Using my bare hands, I rotate the neck in the hot spot of the flame.
As soon as a dark cherry red begins, toss them in a bucket of water.

It takes no time to anneal 40 cases.

In regards to how often, it depends on how much you are moving the brass during the resizing process. I generally only neck resize, accordingly I am moving very little brass so every 4-5 reloads and I anneal. If you are full case resizing, then you may want to up it to every two to three reloads. If you're moving a lot of brass and seeing increasing AOL, then you will need to trim and anneal more often.

While annealing resolves work hardened brass (brittle) and improves case life, it significantly improves case neck tension and that can/may translate into accuracy gains by improving velocity SD.

The above is the key. It is dependent on how much you are moving (work hardening) the brass. I had a 375H&H die that reduced the necks by .014. The necks would split on the 2nd or 3rd sizing. Had it reworked to only size .004. Now the brass doesn't need annealing for several loadings but I still anneal with a propane torch every 4th or 5th loading.

AGREED the candle method annealing is so simple and it works !

I'm looking at annealing close to 3,000 cases. The Annealeez machine should arrive here this week.


Okie John

You may think it's that simple, but you're repeating some of the old myths of annealing. In reality it's even simpler.

As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, brass does NOT have to be heated until it starts to glow to anneal. In fact, when it gets that hot, it often becomes too soft to shoot well, which means it needs to be rehardened by firing again at least once. I know this from considerable research and experimentation, including several annealing with everything from the candle method to an AMP--and I even experienced it with the AMP in one instance.

This turned out to be due to the setting they advised for a specific brand of .30-06 brass. I had some of that brand, but it turned out to differ from the brass AMP has tested, and the first shot after annealing resulted in poor accuracy. But after that shot, accuracy went back to normal for the load--which in that particular rifle is around 1/2."

Also, there is no need to quench annealed brass in cold water. Unlike some other metals, it anneals just the same whether quenched or simply allowed to air-cool.

This is also why the even simpler candle method works so well: It does NOT overheat the brass. Instead it just reaches quick-annealing temperature, and accuracy is great from the first shot afterward.

Myths die a hard death.

Yep!

Absolutely.

Properly done, it's a stress relieving process (more correctly....'drawing back') rather than true annealing. The actual temperature needed to accomplish this draw back is about half of what most would think it is. From the .17's to the .30's, I use the same draw back temp. As you point out, correctly drawn back cases will show no accuracy difference on the first shot. If they do, the gun just showed that the draw back temp was too high.

Good shootin' -Al

Would you mind disclosing what that temperature is?
Thanks

Annealing temperature has loooooong been debated. But here is a pretty good read on the difference temperature makes - https://ballisticrecreations.ca/sal...res-for-reloading-brass-cartridge-cases/

When cases reach a deep cherry red, they are approaching 650 F and are annealed without being too soft or still on the work hardened side.

Simple

The amount of annealing that occurs is approximately directly proportional to time, and inversely to temperature cubed (in Kelvins). So an increase in temperature has a great effect on the time required. You can anneal at fairly low temperatures, if you're willing to let the process run for 24 hours. At 720 F, it takes several seconds. At 820 F, it takes just a few seconds. It's not just a matter of just the right temperature. It is a matter of the right combination of time and temperature.

I've used my wife's gas range, a torch, an inductive heater (too small for this job), the candle method, and the alcohol lamp method. The one I like best is a molten mixture of potassium and sodium nitrate, heated to 438 C (~820 F). That gives very precise, uniform control of heating. These "salts" are very compatible with brass, but it is best to rinse the brass thoroughly after annealing.

As some have pointed out, dropping the brass in a water bath is not necessary, but it does prevent burned fingers.

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VIDEO

I don't know of anyone who has run a rigorous test on how often you should anneal. JMO, after five or six firings seems about right. Four is probably also a good number. As far as I know, annealing resets the stress cracking clock, so you can mix cases fired any reasonable number of times once they have been treated.