Would you mind disclosing what that temperature is? Thanks
Using Tempilaq Liquid, 350 @ the shoulder/body junction. With this little 'fire ring' tool, about 10 seconds per case does it. I do stand them up in a pan with 1/2" of water and just tip them over with the ring as it comes off. The water acts as a heat sink and lets you spend a bit more time over the neck/shoulder junction....rather than just a 'flash' heat.
This temp isn't as aggressive as most will advise. Hornady's kit includes 475 degree Tempilaq, for example.
The goal (at least mine) is to simply stress relieve (draw back) the neck and shoulder enough to keep the neck tension consistent, eliminate any die changes (shoulder 'bump' as the case work hardens), while not changing the 'first shot' accuracy.
Good shootin'. -Al
Al, I use the same set up. It should be pointed out that 10 seconds is not a "golden rule". Using a temp stick, the difference in time required between a 223 Rem case and a 223 WSSM case is (much) more than 10 seconds, for example.
I doubt anyone would get into real trouble guessing at it or using the candle method, but there are very significant differences in time required, due to variables such as flame intensity, case starting temperature, flame proximity, water level, case length and case / neck thickness.
Should also add that there's no absolute temperature for annealing brass. It can be annealed as low as 480 degrees--but it takes a LONG time. Even at 600 degrees it takes an hour. The temperature that generally works best is around 750 degrees--which is a LOT cooler than heating brass until it glows. Which is why 750-degree Tempilaq is pretty popular--but it also doesn't have to go inside every neck. You can count how long it takes heat one case, then just heat the others to the same count. This is how I use my Anneal-Rite tool, used when annealing larger bunches of brass.
When Hornady offered their simple annealing tool, basically a socket-type for use with a drill motor, they included 475-degree Tempilaq, which they suggested applying just BELOW the shoulder of the case. This was to avoid over-heating the case below the neck-shoulder area.
There are all sorts of ways to accomplish the job without over-annealing--the reason there's an entire chapter on the subject in THE BIG BOOK OF GUN GACK II.
I'm glad you commented on the the temperature required to make brass glow. In the video below the brass is being heated to the point where 750° tempilaq painted inside the neck melts. While the flame color changes the neck is no where glowing. The room was completely dark when the video was made.
Al, I use the same set up. It should be pointed out that 10 seconds is not a "golden rule". Using a temp stick, the difference in time required between a 223 Rem case and a 223 WSSM case is (much) more than 10 seconds, for example.
Yep...neck thickness, etc. all plays a role. I'm going to check the next batch with the digital temp gun we use on the dyno to check header temps.
I have annealed exactly 0 cases. If I get a cracked neck, I throw the brass away. I doubt I have thrown away more than 200 cases, if that, in 50 years of reloading and 10’s of thousands of rounds fired...
Lol
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
the discoloration from annealing is caused by the zinc oxidizing, so I don’t go nuts with annealing, but given I work my brass a bit so I anneal every 2nd loading…
the discoloration from annealing is caused by the zinc oxidizing, so I don’t go nuts with annealing, but given I work my brass a bit so I anneal every 2nd loading…
As mentioned earlier, I once ran an experiment with my 6PPC benchrest rifle, which groups 5 shots in "the teens" with its best handloads. Shot the brass 4 times after annealing, and as long as the cases were all fired the same number of times, accuracy remained so close to the same there wasn't any statistically significant difference.
But must admit I didn't test it with "mixed" brass--meaning freshly annealed, or fired 1-4 times after annealing. Might have to try that sometime!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I have annealed exactly 0 cases. If I get a cracked neck, I throw the brass away. I doubt I have thrown away more than 200 cases, if that, in 50 years of reloading and 10’s of thousands of rounds fired...
Lol
Some folks would rather shoot bullets than load bullets. I would think the only way to see repeatable accuracy from annealing is to anneal every time before you reload.
I'm jumping into the annealing game. I've kept my brass separated by whether it was fired 2x, 3x 4x, etc.
Once I anneal, does the counter reset to zero? That is, can I mix brass that was fired 3x before annealing with brass that was fired 5x before annealing and not have problems? Or do I still need to track the number of firings?
thanks,
Okie John
They never set to zero because hopefully, you're controlling shoulder bump. Also you still have primer pocket problems. I do keep brass sorted by firings, and I anneal every time.
Check out what the best F-Class shooters and long-range BR shooters are doing. There are a few lessons there as to what works the best. I believe Erik Cortina has a few youtube videos on the subject.
I have annealed exactly 0 cases. If I get a cracked neck, I throw the brass away. I doubt I have thrown away more than 200 cases, if that, in 50 years of reloading and 10’s of thousands of rounds fired...
Lol
Some folks would rather shoot bullets than load bullets. I would think the only way to see repeatable accuracy from annealing is to anneal every time before you reload.
TrueGrit,
As I noted in a shortly before yours, once as an experiment tried not annealing the brass for my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle for four firings--and as long as the cases had all been fired the same number of times since being annealed, they grouped so similarly there was no way to tell the difference. But I did not try mixing cases that had been fired a different number of times.
As for shrapnel's comment, he is well-known among some of his friends for sighting-in rifles on rocks. He may have fired an actual group on paper sometimes, but if so he's kept it a secret....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Do I need to anneal my K-Hornet brass more often, as it is thinner?
Having owned a bunch of .22 Hornets, .22 K-Hornets and both kinds of .17 Hornets (Hornady and Ackley) I would say no--but I would anneal after every four firings, because the thinner necks often tend to crack more easily.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I have annealed exactly 0 cases. If I get a cracked neck, I throw the brass away. I doubt I have thrown away more than 200 cases, if that, in 50 years of reloading and 10’s of thousands of rounds fired...
Lol
Some folks would rather shoot bullets than load bullets. I would think the only way to see repeatable accuracy from annealing is to anneal every time before you reload.
TrueGrit,
As I noted in a shortly before yours, once as an experiment tried not annealing the brass for my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle for four firings--and as long as the cases had all been fired the same number of times since being annealed, they grouped so similarly there was no way to tell the difference. But I did not try mixing cases that had been fired a different number of times.
As for shrapnel's comment, he is well-known among some of his friends for sighting-in rifles on rocks. He may have fired an actual group on paper sometimes, but if so he's kept it a secret....
Yes, that is true, but I would rather shoot stuff than shoot groups. If I were to anneal, it would be 17 Remington cases, as they seem the most often to be the ones that crack. I will trade shot rocks to anyone that is willing to anneal my 17 Remington brass…