Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters JB - Optimal Velocity

John:

I ran across an old article of yours last night, and it reminded of something that you've said in various articles over the years, and that is fact that you consider somewhere in the neighborhood of about 2700 fps to be the optimal velocity with C&C bullets. Do you have an opinion on what it might be for monos? Or are they so different amongst the various brands and makers that there really isn't an optimal velocity? I'm just curious.

Thanks

Interesting question. Looking forward to the discussion.

Excellent question, waiting on the response.

Speed kills. In my experience monos can stand up to increased speed. Hammer bullets thrive on speed in my experience

300 gr. Shock Hammer in 416 Remington Remington cases Federal 215 primers and 96 grains of Power Pro Varmint


Group shot at 100 yards








The high shot is the 2nd shot that I let get away

Mo fasta, mo beta when it comes to the mono metal boolits.

Dirtfarmer found less than optimal results with a light mono at high speed out of a 240 Weatherby IIRC.

Monos have to be driven fast to work. 90% of my shooting is c&c, about half bonded, half not. So velocity doesn’t have to be my first concern.

I’ve read a few articles in the past about this subject and 2600-2700 is often said to be the optimal impact velocity and in my little world it seems to be true.

Mike,

My experience with monolithic bullets is pretty much what others have suggested so far. They tend to work better at faster muzzle velocities, one reason I don't generally use them unless velocity is up around 2900, and more works fine--though can't remember using any at faster than around 3550 at the muzzle.

The monos I've used have included the original Barnes X-Bullets, the blue-coated XLC, TSXs, TTSXs and more recently LRXs. Had a couple of experiences with the hollow-point versions not expanding, or not expanding much, but that seems to have been solved by plastic tips.

Have also used Nosler E-Tips quite a bit, in calibers from 6mm up to .30, and they seem to work just about like TTSXs. Haven't used as many Hornady monos--and all so far have been the GMXs they just discontinued. Have had excellent results, especially with the 70-grain GMX in a couple of 1-8 twist .22-250s Eileen and I got from Whittaker Guns in Owensboro, Kentucky. The same handload shoots excellently in both rifles, with 3-shot groups going around half an inch at 100 yards, with the muzzle velocity 3300-3400, depending on which rifle its fired from. The closest shots so far have been around 180 yards and the longest 350, all with excellent expansion and quick kills.

Have any tried these?

I seem to be the odd man out, no surprise there. If shots are inside 250 yards, IME monos work fine at 2800fps MV. That probably gives an impact velocity of over 2500fps which has worked fine on smallish deer and plains game.
Shoot for CNS or bone and you don't have to over drive them.

They work well for me also at those speeds, the point is the art over driven with faster speeds like cup & core bullets are

And if you want to shoot a lighter bullet on game for less recoil and flatter trajectory, even in a moderate-capacity chambering, the use of a mono bullet can grant you better odds of penetration versus a stubby and light-for-caliber cup/core. Of course, this assumes moderate distances so that impact velocity is still sufficient, like Blacktailer says. I've killed several deer and hogs inside 250yds with tipped, lightweight mono bullets that were only started at 2,700 to 2,800fps (light handloads). They caused enough damage and punched out with good exits.

In one of Keith's earliest publications, there is comment from him that his experience determined a velocity range of 2400-2800fps provided the most consistency in bullet performance on game. He was likely the epitome of standard opinion for C&C bullet bullet design and seemed completely out of step in not using or promoting Nosler Partitions after their introduction.

Be that as it may, I learned his opinion to be factual in the years before Barnes and Swift "evolutionized" the bullet market around 1989/90. Sure, there were some bullet designs marketed as premiums in design, but they fail miserably against what we know today.

We will always have the economically minded shooter looking for the best for the least so the C&C market is assured and in that, the 2400-2800fps velocity range is also assured.

Mule Deer: If Hornady discontinues the 70 grain GMX what is your recommendation for a sustitute? Thanks.

Dunno right now.

My initial choice was the 62-grain TTSX, but it refused to shoot in my 1-8 twist RAR, on order of 2-3" groups at 100 yards, with more than one powder and seating depth. Dunno why, as TTSXs have been very accurate in just about any other rifle since they appeared in 2004. But it should work well in other .22-250s.

Never tried it in Eileen's Tikka, because the 70 GMX shot so well. Instead just tried the same ammo in the T3 and bingo, half-inch groups--which cut down on my handloading time, and simplified things.

Thought of trying a lead-core of some sort, but we've been very happy with monos on smaller big game because of less meat damage. Haven't seen any word at all from Hornady about making a .224 in the CX line. (Luckily we have a lifetime supply of 70-grain GMXs.)

Have just started trying Hammers, and so far they shoot very well, and the reports of on-game performance have been excellent. They shoot great in my NULA .257 Weatherby.

Thanks for the suggestions

Killed a lot of healthy Axis bucks with 280 Remington 150 CoreLokt’s averaging 2820 fps out to 40p yards. Never felt like I needed more, still don’t.

Has anybody ever shot a mono “too fast”

Does a mono at high velocity (say 3000 + fps) still tear up meat/bloodshot meat like a C&C going the same velocity?

I would expect there to not be any bullet fragments in my hamburger with a mono, but what effect does the high velocity have on meat when the bullet is a mono as opposed to a C&C?

I load a 130TTSX to about 3200fps in my 308. I’ve only shot one deer that I can remember with it. A nice buck at about 50-60 yards so the bullet hadn’t slowed much. I aimed behind the shoulder for a lung shot and he was nearly broadside when I fired. The chest cavity was complete soup and the exit hole was quite large. I’m sure if I’d shoulder shot him it would have ruined a considerable amount of meat.

I’ve shot several deer with a140tsx loaded to a bit faster speeds from a 26” barreled 7mag. The ranges have been 150-350 yards or so, so Impact speeds have been less but I suspect the tsx may open a bit less/ slower/ less violently than the TTSX. They are very decisive killers but I don’t ever recall the same level of carnage as I saw from the .308 130 TTSX. Limited sample and different bullets but those were my experiences.

Benbo,

My wife had a somewhat similar meat-loss experience with the 100 TTSX at 3150 fps from her NULA .257 Roberts--though the deer didn't die all that fast. She shot a mature mule deer buck at 100 yards just behind the shoulder, as he stood broadside. He made a tiny jump, then started walking off almost as if he hadn't been hit--though we heard the bullet hit, and she was shooting from prone. He slowed, and then stopped after about 100 yards. She was about to shoot again when he collapsed.

The bullet had landed right where she aimed, in the pocket behind the shoulder, about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the chest--but there was considerable meat damage, more than we'd ever seen from any monolithic, even though the bullet didn't hit bone.

Killed my first big game animal with a Barnes X around 30 years ago, and Eileen started using them when the TSX appeared in 2003. (In fact she was the first person to provide Coni Brooks with a field-report about using the TSX on a bull elk.) Between us have taken over 100 animals with Barnes monos, including the original X-Bullet, including the blue-coated version, TSX, Tipped TSX and LRX. Our experience with the TSX is the same as yours, that they don't tend to kill as fast as the TTSX (Eileen's mule deer buck was the biggest exception to that), and we've even had a couple fail to expand.

And I did find the TSXs didn't kill as well when not driven pretty fast. One animal in particular was a bull kudu I killed in South Africa with a 160-grain TSX started at around 2700 fps from a 7x57. He was about 250 yards away, and I was sitting with the rifle resting on sticks. The bullet went right where I aimed, just behind the shoulder about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the chest, and the kudu jumped a little and trotted into a patch of nearby brush before I could shoot again, where it disappeared.

I headed over there, ready to shoot again if he jumped, and got within maybe 75 yards before I could see him, lying down with his head up behind a screen of brush. I tried to pick a path through the brush, but the bullet deflected and never hit him, and was about to try again when his head started slowly dropping and he rolled over on his side. That was at least a couple minutes after the initial shot, which had gone where I'd aimed--but it didn't expand much, if at all, leaving a very narrow wound channel through the lungs above the heart--which is why we prefer the TTSXs or LRXs in calibers from .30 on down.

On the other hand, TSXs above .30 caliber have a MUCH larger hollow-point than the smaller-caliber models, and expand well even at modest muzzle velocities.