Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

That is what I am thinking too.

LOL Sirs Ron and Tony, no Casanova, but you know ; ] glad to see The Crusade is still full steam ahead.

Great info and time well spent!

TTT for SLGPT.

Man, that is a hammer of a load with the 500 grain Partitions. That Hammer bullet at 2500 has to be a beast as well.

Which one outta the Partition and Hammer drives deeper? Might take a pickup full of water jugs to do that test.

LOL Big B, it'd take a chitload of jugs to catch either, there'll never be flies settled on even the saami spec'd 458 WM, 500gr at 2300 is anyone's hammer ; ]

I have some 500 grain A-Frames I wanna air out. Those suckers must be like an ashtray once they expand.

Facts, Facts, Facts! Could you guys not make up some wild claims from time to time to give somebody something to cry "Foul!" to? A Thread on a gun forum not filled with BS and exaggerations is rarer than a Good Samaritan CCW holder who can place 8-10 on target in a crowded mall food court.
Long live the King 458WM!
Long live the freedom to live by truth!
F01

Oh hell yeah Big B, like a lead ashtray on the end of a short handled 5lb shop hammer!

LOL F01, next post i'm going to sling a shovel full of horsechit tomato fertilizer at the computer screen, that'll do it!

Notice the lesser bearing surface on the 222 grain Hammer VS the 225 grain TSX in .358 diameter
This is why one can use more powder to increase velocity with the Hammer bullets

free screenshot

Dang right JWP, another reason i think my 404gr Hammer bullet load with AA2460 at 2500 fps will be at 50K PSI or less, buffalo hunting 110 degrees all day long!

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Agreed, on that slickness of the Hammer bullets.
At similar COLs, I noticed it took an extra grain of powder with the Hammer 404gr
to get same velocity as with the 400-gr HV.
The HV by GSC is a pretty low-friction bullet itself.

I also SWAG that the slickness of the PDR bands also translates to less drag in the air,
as well as less drag in the barrel.

BTW, here are the only two parts one needs to convert a 3.4" M70 Classic .458 WinMag
into a 3.6" magazine repeater.
Drop-in gunsmithing and reversible to original parts.
Even a caveman can do it:



Here is the .375 H&H box used in the newer Winchester M70 made by FN in South Carolina about 2012.
The .458 WinMag Super Grade made by same folks uses a box like this with a block that fits in the folded rear
of the box, and no folding inward of feed lips like on the older Classic:



Here is the .270 WCF box for an M70 Classic that still has the block installed at back of box,
but has had a steel plate soldered onto front of box to prevent recoil denting,
also the Wiebe XRM box for 3.6" and one extra round in box.
The 270 WCF box holds 3 down in .458 WM,
the XRM box holds 4 down in .458 WM:







I have since popped the block out of the rear of the M70 Classic .270 WCF box and it holds 3 down with .458 WM 3.6" COL.

That may be something I do in the future. I’ve done quite a few for M70 300 Wins and 7 Rems in the past. As RC says, so easy a Marine can do it, and not break much.

Sir Scotty,
I started to do that to my standard SAAMI .458 WinMag M70 but since it is a later South Carolina/FN-Winchester,
my Connecticut Classic mag box is a different fit.
The mail-order parts at Midwest Gun Works out of Missouri are for the M70 Classic, not the SC/FN M70.
I would have to rob another SC/FN .375 H&H rifle to make the switch.
There are all sorts of possibilities ...

I will illustrate the SC/FN mag boxes and followers for .30-06, .338 WM, .375 H&H, and .458 WM ... to be continued.
I am most comfortable with recommending a switcheroo on the Connecticut Classic M70,
having done that myself, a .270 WCF 3.4" to .400 Whelen 3.6"
which was as slick as your conversions to long box .300 WM and .338 WM.

But I take heart in this:

My SC/FN .458 WinMag has an inside box length of at least 3.410"
which easily handles my 3.380" COL with 404-gr Shock Hammer,
and 450-gr CEB Safari Solid at same 3.380" COL.

The unaltered rifle will also eject a single-loaded, unfired round with COL of 3.540".
Easily ejects 3.480" COL with the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
No change in ejector/boltstop required.
No milling on the receiver required.
No magazine box switcheroo required.

Having a +3.6" mag box is desirable but not necessary.
The factory +3.4" box will handle a magazine feed of 3.380" ammo, no problemo.

Loaded with WW/Hornady brass the 450-gr CEB/3.380" gives +2350 fps in a 24" barrel.
Loaded with Norma brass, the 404-gr Shock Hammer at 3.380" COL gives + 2500 fps,
equivalent to the preferred 3.480" load of 404-gr SH in the WW/Hornady brass.

The 404-gr Shock Hammer may be loaded to 3.480" COL with Norma brass,
and that will be better than trying to load it to 3.580" in WW/Hornady brass.
Not enough bullet remains in case for 3.580" COL with the 404-gr Shock Hammer.

Poor .458 Lott, it has a 1:10" twist barrel by SAAMI.
But that is only about two-tenths of one percent worsening by higher pressure and lower velocity,
not nearly the losses due to throat differences,
compared to the SAAMI .458 WinMag chamber in a 1:14" twist barrel of same length.

GREAT NEWS !
Sir "DocM" Michael at MIB is doing pressure tests on the .458 WM+ ammo in a 20" M70 Classic barrel, cut down from 24" factory barrel.
Comparing data on initial loads showed only a 72 fps loss from 24" to 20" barrel shortening.
18 fps average per inch over that range.

I might get his permission to copy and paste his pressure results here ...

It is with great sorrow that I must stop using the phrase "buy a donkey"
as a phonetic representation for the Afrikaans language "thank you very much."

Sir Tony, sell those donkeys to the glue factory.

After a week of reading, I just got to here in this epic thread. Thanks for the pics and details above bout mag length.

Separately, if the Lott has a 1:10 twist, and was throated to match the SAAMI WM chamber, then it might do better with the very high BC bullets shown some pages back if one were inclined to do some very long range target shooting with their 458. Of course, you would want a heavier gun and probably a break or suppressor on the gun to make it a comfortable to shoot LR precision gun. Definitely outside the scope of hunting with these things the way most of us do. Just interesting to ponder.

I have taken notes on reloading throughout this thread. To recap though, what is the consensus on the best powder to choose for the 404 Hammer bullets? Can non magnum primers be used for range practice, or are magnums really required regardless?

Thanks to all of you for helping me get started in the 458 world!

Sir Ron,
Consider it Done! LOL!
Needed the Space in the Barn anyway! LOL!

Makes sense RC. Mines a Classic. I haven’t outgrew the 3.4” power level yet…. I might not ever

Looking at bullet choices, will the CEB 450g solids shoot to a similar POI as the 404 Hammers, or might I be better off with the 400g solids instead?