Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Yeah, I've seen the short clips on youtube, but I'm wondering where the entire video can be found.

Took the Mark X out for her inaugural spin this evening. First shot popped the floorplate open and dumped the ammo. not quite ready for a DG hunt, lol. Other than that, pretty nice gun to shoot. It will need floorplate reinforcement, as well as a few other things that I prefer, but a short trip to the smith should make her right. Lighter than my R8 by about a pound but still very pleasant to shoot. Should make a good squirrel and rabbit gun for my 9 year old.

Sir Jerry,
I am sure you will serve King Four Five Eight as well as Jerry served King Ezekiel on The Walking Dead.
BTW, at Hammer site they are saying that cape buffalo has been taken with .416-caliber Hammers.
No one yet has counted coup with the 404gr/.458 that I can tell.

Sir Bob,
I only follow in your footsteps.
As to the scarcity of all components lately, I can only say LET'S GO BRANDON.

At least the .458 WM is more flexible and versatile than any other cartridge I can think of.
I am going to start making brass from .375 H&H and such.
Bullets galore, home cast or hard bought.
Powders: Yes anything from Trail Boss, Blue Dot & Blackhorn 209 for ball and shot,
AA-5744 for 250-grainers at 2700 fps to 3000 fps,
and just about any powder of slower burn rate than that,
right on up to CFE-223 for the 500-grainers and heavier.
That is a great powder with which to exceed .450 NE ballistics.
My oh my we at the Square Table have it better than most.
I will admit the .458 Lott might be more useful for birdshot loads, but that is all.

Sir Roo,
AA-2015BR is a great powder for Sir Dennis with hardcast FN at a bit under 2000 fps for venison harvesting.
It is a bit bulky for getting top velocity with the long monometals, despite its fast burn rate.
But it seems to be the cat's meow with a short COL load of a stubby 400-grain jacketed.
Western powders data showed a jacketed 400-gr Barnes Original SSSP at 3.140" COL, 24" barrel, Win. brass, F215:
68.4 grains AA-2015 >>> 2172 fps
76.0 grains AA-2015 >>> 2468 fps <<< 57,584 psi
Try 63.0 grains AA-2015 for about 2000 fps with your 405-gr hardcast.
Use a foam wad filler cut from caulk backer roll to work down to accuracy,
or work up for higher velocity.
That reminds me to try for 2500 fps with my BHN 25 400-ish grainers, gas-checked and PC-painted.
2100 to 2200 fps is good with those,
using the bulky and slow AA-2495.

Sir Scotty,

Thanks for posting the you tube of Sir Saint Bagwell.

About the bang flop noted by Sir Allen:
Sir Saint Bagwell admitted that was the only time he had a PH veer off course in the animal.
Shoulder bone hit must have deflected the bullet up into the spine.
High spine and other vitals taken out.
All that can be done by a 480-gr, 50:50 (WW:lead), FN greaser at 1300 fps MV.
Lyman PH and BPCR .45-70 Shiloh Sharps 1874.
And the Lottites say the .458 WinMag is lacking ?

And about the conversion to 3.6" .458 WM+, of the 3.4" SC/FN M70 Super Grade,
my rifle is converted.

I ordered a stainless ejector from MGW and switched it out. Saved some work in shortening the OEM part.
The .375 H&H ejector is 0.2" shorter than the .458 WM ejector. Same part for Classic and SC/FN ?

The breech bolt stop I got was the wrong one, maybe the Classic and SC/FN are different in that part ?
So I put the OEM part on a grinder and filed some and shortened it 1/4": Perfectly timed ejection and bolt stop now.

A stainless .375 H&H mag box #1460 replaced the OEM, blued #1914 which was windowed at top of sides and blocked at rear.
No windows or block on the #1460.
Seems when rear of cartridge gets to go farther back in the action, it makes more room up front and the windowing of box is not needed.
Holds 3 down of 3.6" cartridges with ease.
Feeds the bluntest of FN bullets too.
Slick.
I am happy I did it.

I need a B&C Medalist stock and a stainless floor plate,
so as to save the gold leaf on the current floor plate of this 50th Anniversary Cabela's model,
and preserve the wood from abuse.
It already has a NEAR, MFG. picatinny on it, with integral recoil stop on the underside front of the rail.
Stainless bottom metal would be a fashion statement too,
like on Sir Jerry's Ruby Goldberg and my Chimera WinCZechster.
Ruby is the one going after cape buffalo with Sir Jerry, wielding the 404gr Shock Hammer .458 WM+.

Here a different Sir Jerry wields a different Shock Hammer:



The Walking Dead does so remind me of the walking Democrap voters.

I borrowed the DVDs from Sir Saint Bagwell.
Sent them back to him after I viewed them.
I am not saying I copied the files to 'puter, or that I lost them in a 'puter crash, nope.
I do not know if one or more of the DVDs are GOEX owned/copyrighted.
I do not know if Mrs. Sydra Bagwell might be able to sell the DVDs, but that would certainly be nice if they were made available.
So, I guess I don't know.

Have you guys ever seen any of this stuff?

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/product/shooters-world-buffalo-rifle-d060-01/

From the description it says its very similar to 5744 which some of you all have said is good stuff with lighter bullet loads in the 458.

https://shootersworldpowder.com/reload-data/

Yep, I agree Sir Ron;

I'm sitting here in a swivel chair, at my desk, surrounded by all kinds of paraphernalia, a good part of which I'll never use again. But near my left elbow there are hundreds of bullets in .458", and below that several cans of powder suitable for the GREAT .458 Winchester Magnum, that will outlast me! The main propellants for the .458 in hand are: H4895, H335 and H4198. I still have an old can of 2230. Others suitable are H322, A5744, Rl-15 and CFE-223. Plus, I still have several hundred WLRM primers, so I've no need to cry over the politics of Canada or the USA in that regard. But having just settled on CFE-223 for the Whelen, I was hopeful for another can as a backup - but I haven't yet contacted all sources in this area. For the 9.3 x 62, I use RL-17 exclusively, which could also be used in the Whelen in a pinch. I did use that one in an early trial of the Whelen with a 225gr X-Bullet, and it worked well enough, but just a tad too slow. I still have about 75% of that can left, and only use enough to create some new reloads for the 9.3 Mauser when needed for hunting, so will have some left over as a spare for the .35 Whelen if push comes to shove.

Getting ready for bear baiting. Season starts Sept 1 and runs to Nov 30. Wolf/coyote, Sept 15 to Dec 31. Then a new license (if wanted) to Mar 31/23.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I have some but haven't used it in my 458 yet--just in 500 S&W. But it is very close to 5744. As usual, just back it off 5 percent to start from book 5744 loads and you'll be fine.

08/10/2022 Update from MIB Laboratory:



Here is a data detail from pages and pages of MIB Master Data:



More to follow.
Gotta do some "Old Lady Duty" first.

Good if it is available, looks just like AA-5744, a favorite of mine:

FIREARM CALIBER CASE WEIGHT PROJECTILE COL ST LOAD ST VEL MAX LOAD MAX VEL MAX PSI
BUFFALO RIFLE
Rifle 45-70 Government Starline 405 405 GR. LC RNFP 5 SAECO 2.560 24.0 1,185 27.0 1,317 17,390
Rifle 45-70 Government Starline 405 405 GR. LC RNFP 10 SAECO 2.550 30.0 1,425 34.5 1,608 28,000


Hey-hey-hey, subsonic to +Mach 2 with a .30-06 and 168-gr SMK:

FIREARM CALIBER CASE WEIGHT PROJECTILE COL ST LOAD ST VEL MAX LOAD MAX VEL MAX PSI
BUFFALO RIFLE
Rifle 30-06 Springfield Jagemann 168 168 GR. SIERRA SMK 3.245 10.0 1,074 38.0 2,550 57,871


Probably do 2700 to 3000 fps with the 250-gr Hornady Monoflex, like with AA-5744.

I kinda figured you might be interested. It was available at PV as of this morning.

Thank you Sir Ron, I didn't realize they were a DVD only proposition (it sounds like it anyway). If anyone has them and is willing to loan them for a viewing, I would be very grateful. I will get in touch with GOEX and see if they can be secured through them. Searching before initially posting did not turn up a link to order them.


Also thank you for the 2015 information. I have a similar load that I got from Hodgen's site that I will use with the Hammers to start with and then attempt with the cast bullets.

Possible powders I can use include 2015, Varget, and IMR 4198. Loading for this rifle has reminded me why I got out of rifle reloading, lol.

I picked up the Hodgden Annual yesterday and much to my disappointment, there were no .458WM loads offered at all. Not a one. I did find a few jacked bullets to try out though, so that was good.

Yes, a sad commentary on the times.
2021 was the last edition containing .458 WM, but not even .458 Lott then.
Top of the food chain for 2022 at Hodgdon Annual Manual:

450 Bushmaster
458 SOCOM
45-70 Government (Lever Actions)
45-70 Government (Modern Rifles)
470 Nitro Express
50 Browning Machine Gun

Gone is the 50-140 Sharps too.
I blame the Democraps.

I will bring more from MIB shortly.
Might as well go ahead and trump the .458 Lott pressure levels with the .458 WM+.
If the 270 WCF can be allowed a 65,000 psi MAP, so can the .458 WM+.

Agreed. Let the facts stand alone and choices reign free.

More Hammering:


Norma brass and AA-2230:




Winchester brass compared to Norma brass with AA-2460:

Can we draw any conclusions about the longer col loads versus the shorter?
If not we are seeing 2460 creating more pressure than 2230 and that means faster burn rate.
Great data and many thanks to all providing it!!!