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I’d venture to guess my 270 Featherweight in near my favorite rifle, next to my Mashburn and 338.. All three of them are very good hunting rifles for me.


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Originally Posted by nyrifleman
Originally Posted by Poconojack
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by nyrifleman
Let me be clear, not looking for a Gopher, but a Type 4 sightless Featherweight.

They're the same thing, no? If not, what's the difference?

Provenance

Exactly

The Red Book of Gun Values as “Gopher Specials”, manufactured between serial numbers 440793-465040.

Even within that range, without provenance, the rifle must be assumed as a type 4

Gotchya, thanks. I didn't think that information was available, and I'm often wrong!

Since you don't want a sightless one made to be sold through Gopher Supply, I'm curious, why not? Is the non-gopher sightless more valuable?


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Brad, I'd gladly pay for an authentic Gopher, with provenance.

The issue is there's very few that have the necessary documentation to be considered anything other than a class 4 rifle


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Originally Posted by nyrifleman
Brad, I'd gladly pay for an authentic Gopher, with provenance.

The issue is there's very few that have the necessary documentation to be considered anything other than a class 4 rifle

Ah - gotchya. Now it makes sense. Sorry for clogging the thread...


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Some thoughts about Gopher Specials….
Gopher Specials were in the 1959 Gopher Catalog and their magazine advertising said, “after waiting for a year” they were in stock. This would suggest that they were ordered from Winchester in 1957 or 1958. Additionally, one must take into account that Gopher offered sightless M70’s (including the 308 Win and sightless Standard Westerner) all the way through 1963. So there had to be more than one order from Gopher to Winchester, the later one including the 308 Win. Fwt and 264 Win Mag Standard Westerner.
The Red Book notes the full S/N range of 1959 M70 production and assumes that Gopher Specials were all made in 1959.
Good Luck finding a genuine Gopher Special.


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I assume a Type 4 or Class 4 rifle was a special order? Please pardon my ignorance. Thanks

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The rifle shown appears to have an aluminum butt plate. From about 1958 on the butt plates were composite...at least it is on my 1958 Standard .30-06. That would tend to rule out the " 1959 gopher special" designation for this gun or at least raise some questions.

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335127 ruled it out a while back. smile

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I can't be sure! But all this maybe advocacy about "sightless", I think we may have a "Mole" amongst us! smile smile smile

Factually, such configurations deprived of iron sights, resulting entirely dependent upon scope for any semblance of accuracy at range. Such, depriving the rifleman of a very inexpensive, innocuous 'backup tool' for little good cause. As in the middle of nowhere with a busted scope, those set of 'irons' could be invaluable! The "trend away from irons", not so much the riflemen I suspect, as the manufacturers looking to squeeze every nickel out of each build cost factor!
Long term trends by now of decades, disdaining "irons". Not saying I'd put them on a gun - factory without. But appreciating that measure of ultimately cheap "insurance".

Course, "Cheap insurance..." I was the guy who advocated condom dispensers for the back seat of every car too! smile smile smile

Best! smile
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Oops, I missed that serial number picture. Anyway, I was digging around in Rule's book and found that supposedly the composite butt was a 1959 change, so now I have questions about my 1958...sorry for getting off track.

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Originally Posted by JStor
Oops, I missed that serial number picture. Anyway, I was digging around in Rule's book and found that supposedly the composite butt was a 1959 change, so now I have questions about my 1958...sorry for getting off track.

I have posted that buttplate question before and the best that I can figure out is that it was a gradual process. One of the authorities on the Winchester collector site has documented stocks which serialize to ‘59 and even ‘60 with aluminum plates; as well as ‘58 with composite.

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Originally Posted by AKwolverine
Originally Posted by JStor
Oops, I missed that serial number picture. Anyway, I was digging around in Rule's book and found that supposedly the composite butt was a 1959 change, so now I have questions about my 1958...sorry for getting off track.

I have posted that buttplate question before and the best that I can figure out is that it was a gradual process. One of the authorities on the Winchester collector site has documented stocks which serialize to ‘59 and even ‘60 with aluminum plates; as well as ‘58 with composite.


Exactly. I've seen late 58's with composite plates..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by southtexas
I assume a Type 4 or Class 4 rifle was a special order? Please pardon my ignorance. Thanks

Yes, class 4 special order..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by iskra
I can't be sure! But all this maybe advocacy about "sightless", I think we may have a "Mole" amongst us! smile smile smile

Factually, such configurations deprived of iron sights, resulting entirely dependent upon scope for any semblance of accuracy at range. Such, depriving the rifleman of a very inexpensive, innocuous 'backup tool' for little good cause. As in the middle of nowhere with a busted scope, those set of 'irons' could be invaluable! The "trend away from irons", not so much the riflemen I suspect, as the manufacturers looking to squeeze every nickel out of each build cost factor!
Long term trends by now of decades, disdaining "irons". Not saying I'd put them on a gun - factory without. But appreciating that measure of ultimately cheap "insurance".

Course, "Cheap insurance..." I was the guy who advocated condom dispensers for the back seat of every car too! smile smile smile

Best! smile
John

John, you are a little older than I am, but I think JOC had a lot to do with guys wanting to go "sightless", as some of his customs were built that way. I think he had a preference for them with his "sheep" rifles because he was trying to lighten them up as much as he could. So, it was around the time he had his #2 rifle built that guys were getting intrigued by these sightless rifles. I believe that was in 1954.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Is it my eyes or the picture, but looks like the serial numbers have been polished out...

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Originally Posted by Milkfever
Is it my eyes or the picture, but looks like the serial numbers have been polished out...

I don't think it's your eyes. The rifle in question is not an option for the op now, which is a good thing. He found a much nicer example. You should check out the other thread he started. Not a lot of Winchester experts commenting on this rifle, but there is a lot that stands out in those pics. Like I said, that rifle has been picked up a lot and examined at a gunshop somewhere. In person it is probably even more obvious that the finish has been re-done etc..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by beretzs
[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

I think some guy from Washington thinks I posted pics of this rifle. I brought up some good observations, but you are pretty tight lipped. I stand by exactly what I said about this rifle, as it hits the nail on the head. NYrifleman is doing much better with the other rifle he's working on getting. I don't mind calling this poster that PM'd me, but he may not like what I have to say. Don't want to make anyone cry on a phone call either..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Based on this thread my offer on this rifle was significantly lower than the $1500 asking price. Thankfully bcame a moot point when the shop wouldn't ship.


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