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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by deflave
Assuming a full grip like the Shield, 43X, 365XL's provide, most people can shoot them as well as a full size double stack. Matter of fact, I think a lot of shooters end up shooting them better because the slimmer frame allows a better purchase (more contact) with a lot of shooter's hands and their associated grip.

Regarding grip, I took my new 365XLSC to the range today. 150 rounds of Winchester 124 gr. FMJ. Slow and fast fire. Arm's length to 10 yards. One-handed and two handed.

I'll tell you it's like the grip is custom made for me. Not once, in all 150 rounds, did I feel a need to slightly readjust my shooting hand after recoil. The sights come to my eye naturally.



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Picked up the P365X this morning, and am as happy with it as I've ever been with a new handgun.

I only have 50 rounds through it so far. It came with 2X12 round mags and I did 13 and 12 twice.The shop I bought it from is in the opposite direction from home as the range I usually use. But one of the wife's nephews lives on a rural property almost on the way home from the shop. He maintains a dirtpile for casual shooting, and he met me there and popped a few caps himself. He brought his grandpa's Colt Woodsman out and I know how well the kids shoots it. I was prepared to eat humble pie, if I didn't shoot well.

I shot 13, 12, and 13 at a steel plate and it was a regular noisemaker. I was shooting federal 115 fmj. For my last mag the kid brought out a piece of scrap sheetrock and scorched a black circle on it with a propane torch. The black circle was about 3" across, and all 12 would have been in the black, except I was centered on the bottom edge with half the group hanging there in the white.

Brain dead move, but I left home with only the fmj ammo. I know 50 rounds isn't much of a trial for a carry pistol, but if I coulda proved a couple of mags loaded with carry ammo, i'da probably put it in my belt and carried it.

The nephew did shoot a couple of mags out of the Sig. He did about as well as I did, considering he seldom shoots centerfire or striker fired. Young eyes and hands are great things.


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12 rounds vs 7 in the LC9S. The P365X is more compact, but felt about half again as heavy when loaded. In a CYA kydex IWB it's a bit more comfortable to carry than the LC9S with the same style holster.


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Originally Posted by johnw
12 rounds vs 7 in the LC9S. The P365X is more compact, but felt about half again as heavy when loaded. In a CYA kydex IWB it's a bit more comfortable to carry than the LC9S with the same style holster.
What did you pay for the P365X?

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Good deal. I figured you'd be pleased with it.

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BTW, did the guys at the gun shop tell you about Sig's free magazine and ammo promotion for new buyers of P365s?

You've got until September 25 to jump on that.

https://www.sigsauer.com/p365promo

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Originally Posted by tjm10025
BTW, did the guys at the gun shop tell you about Sig's free magazine and ammo promotion for new buyers of P365s?

You've got until September 25 to jump on that.

https://www.sigsauer.com/p365promo
They sure make the process of getting that free stuff complicated and drawn out. When Springfield does it, it's a simple card that comes in the box that you fill out and send in.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by johnw
12 rounds vs 7 in the LC9S. The P365X is more compact, but felt about half again as heavy when loaded. In a CYA kydex IWB it's a bit more comfortable to carry than the LC9S with the same style holster.
What did you pay for the P365X?

Tax and all it was $620


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Originally Posted by tjm10025
BTW, did the guys at the gun shop tell you about Sig's free magazine and ammo promotion for new buyers of P365s?

You've got until September 25 to jump on that.

https://www.sigsauer.com/p365promo

I filled out the online page, and uploaded pics of the receipt and case label but got no confirmation or recognition of it's completion.

If I think of it I'll call and ask about it on Monday.


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FWIW I went to the range this afternoon for a while. The standout ammo, for accuracy so far, is the federal 115 FMJ

Tried 4 different carry type loads

The Underwood 90 gr defenders were so-so for accuracy

Hornady critical pitical 115 gr shot like doggy-do, or a shotgun

Sig 124 gr V-Crpwn was the obvious winner for accuracy amongst carry loads.
Almost as good as the federal FMJ stuff

Federal 124 gr Punch ammo put only 3 of 12 on paper.

Was shooting at notebook sheets with a 2.5" shoot-n-c. Had one really good target with the FMJ. 8 in the shoot-n-c with 4 close to it. I'm a bit inconsistent with it, though. Had several groups that wandered low and left like everybody has seen. I usually cure this with more finger on the trigger. And that helped some today, but I'm gonna have to figure out the grip.


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Those are some interesting results with your ammo. The only ammo I've shot so far in mine is Winchester "NATO" 124 grain FMJ, and it's very accurate.

Next time I go out, I'll feed it some Speer 124 gr. +P Gold Dots and see how it likes that.

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Originally Posted by johnw
Originally Posted by jorgeI
I now carry a 365XL because it came out as the most reasonable when you plug in all the factors i deemed important and based on recommendations from a few of you. The gun fits my hand well, it holds a reasonable amount of rounds and in a caliber that bullet technology has now made it acceptable for self-defense. Never been involved in a gun fight and I don't want to be, but there are literally REAMS of data out there validating all kinds of factors.

The Glock 19 is about as good as it gets, but the 365 is a LOT easier to carry and conceal and round count is more than adequate when you consider statistical data on guns used for self defense (not gunfights by LEOs) the situation is settled with five rounds or LESS. Sure more is always better, I remember during the Gulf War aircrews were loading up their survival gear (Browning Hi-Powers were the "de rigueur"weapon of the day but I carried a 1911) with multiple magazines, combat knives, etc., in the hopes of "trading lead" with a truck full of Iraqui soldiers with AKs bearing down in your position. "That is the fight you get" and unless the RESCAP A-10s, gunships and extraction teams were overhead, that Browning was as useless at tits on a boar hog. For the everyday citizen like most of us are, personal choice, based on one's risk assessment works for me,but after reading some comments, the only thing that would satisfy some of you guys are belt-fed, crew served weaponry.

I think that Mackay is correct in his assertion that better armed is generally better. But I think that he misses the point that a lot of guys work in an environment where carry of any weapon at all is strictly prohibited. If they do decide to carry, they gotta weigh the potential of losing their employment, if caught doing so. And in some cases, some places, they might even lose their freedom for being armed.

And this is a real thing. I know a guy personally who worked in such a place. Company man, on the executive team.
In the years before Illinois passed their concealed carry law, he commonly carried a pocket .380. A talisman, in Mackay's estimation. He used that talisman to shoot one of 3 armed attackers who accosted him while he was out of the office at lunch time. The fight ended when he shot, but his battles had just begun.

He was never charged with unlawful carry. The only criminal charges he ever faced were misdemeanors. But the company he worked for decided that his services were no longer required. He fought his termination in court and won. But his time there, and his success with them was clearly a thing of the past.
Today he raises funds far various non-profits, and makes more money than when he was on the "A" Team. He eventually was awarded his concealed carry permit, but had to go through the appeals process to get it.

As to talisman guns, almost every case of self defense I hear of, where I here anything about the weapon used, involves them. I think Mackay is wrong on that point. Guys choose to carry what they are able to, in order to give themselves a chance to influence what happens around them when things turn [bleep].

Been that way forever...

Read the original post.

The OP's topic was never about non permissive environments and getting caught where you are not legally allowed to carry.

It was about a 9mm carry gun that is never a wrong choice for legal concealed carry.


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Originally Posted by johnw
FWIW I went to the range this afternoon for a while. The standout ammo, for accuracy so far, is the federal 115 FMJ

Tried 4 different carry type loads

The Underwood 90 gr defenders were so-so for accuracy

Hornady critical pitical 115 gr shot like doggy-do, or a shotgun

Sig 124 gr V-Crpwn was the obvious winner for accuracy amongst carry loads.
Almost as good as the federal FMJ stuff

Federal 124 gr Punch ammo put only 3 of 12 on paper.

Was shooting at notebook sheets with a 2.5" shoot-n-c. Had one really good target with the FMJ. 8 in the shoot-n-c with 4 close to it. I'm a bit inconsistent with it, though. Had several groups that wandered low and left like everybody has seen. I usually cure this with more finger on the trigger. And that helped some today, but I'm gonna have to figure out the grip.


Mine shoots everything well from 115 grain FMJ to hollow point front 124 to 147 as well as hard cast

Sounds mike like your shooting is suspect



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Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by johnw
As to talisman guns, almost every case of self defense I hear of, where I here anything about the weapon used, involves them. I think Mackay is wrong on that point. Guys choose to carry what they are able to, in order to give themselves a chance to influence what happens around them when things turn [bleep].

Been that way forever...

Well put.

Mackay is a cop and has a Cop's mindset. But Cop's are about 2 per thousand population, or 0.2%. Everyone else is not a cop and has to go about the world NOT A COP.

Just my opinion of course.

Wrong.

DLA,

Don't assume to know my mindset as obviously you are wrong. I retired from LE some time ago. Your standard schtick has always been when you have been talking out of your butt about things you literally have no experience in and are just guessing about is to say "But but I am not in the cop business, or your a cop, and to make other remarks" That has been your standard reply for years if you don't agree with something in order to discredit. I find this pretty ironic since you now say you worked as a jailer for a decade.

Since a jailer is an entry level position and you never managed to promote out of the jail and onto the road as a patrol deputy, despite being there 10 years, this would explain your vitriolic and nasty attitude toward the LE here. If you behaved anything like you do here, at the jail it is no wonder they refused to let you promote and did not want you on the road.

The screw ups and people with poor dispositions are usually put in the jail if they have not done enough to be fired (yet). The fact that you spent 10 years in an entry level position is absolutely no surprise.

That said, my comments had literally NOTHING to do with police work crazy. The topic was lawful concealed carry choices. With that in mind, the Glock 19 is the one gun that can always be looked at as never a bad choice. Plain and simple. There is a reason it has been sold by the literal millions and remains incredibly popular. It is a gold standard. There are some that may be smaller or larger, and serve some specific role better, but few can do so many roles as adequately as a general purpose piece like the G19.


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Jumping in here late, but the G19 is the ubiquitous choice for sure and is almost never wrong. I’ve never gotten along with the grip size as well as the G17, so it would be my choice.

Regarding small guns, I was shocked when I shot the IDPA classifier twice in a row and scored nearly identical with a G17 and a first gen Shield. I doubt the results would have been even close to the same had I used something smaller like an LCP.

The IDPA classifier is a pretty decent way to sort out how you are doing and it provides a useful benchmark to compare guns and gear with. It doesn’t stress capacity, otherwise the shield would have lagged pretty far behind.

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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by johnw
FWIW I went to the range this afternoon for a while. The standout ammo, for accuracy so far, is the federal 115 FMJ

Tried 4 different carry type loads

The Underwood 90 gr defenders were so-so for accuracy

Hornady critical pitical 115 gr shot like doggy-do, or a shotgun

Sig 124 gr V-Crpwn was the obvious winner for accuracy amongst carry loads.
Almost as good as the federal FMJ stuff

Federal 124 gr Punch ammo put only 3 of 12 on paper.

Was shooting at notebook sheets with a 2.5" shoot-n-c. Had one really good target with the FMJ. 8 in the shoot-n-c with 4 close to it. I'm a bit inconsistent with it, though. Had several groups that wandered low and left like everybody has seen. I usually cure this with more finger on the trigger. And that helped some today, but I'm gonna have to figure out the grip.


Mine shoots everything well from 115 grain FMJ to hollow point front 124 to 147 as well as hard cast

Sounds mike like your shooting is suspect

Agreed
not unusual with a new purchase, for me.


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Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
That said, my comments had literally NOTHING to do with police work crazy.

Like it or not, your life experience IS the lens through which you view everything. You were a Cop - you can't change your spots.

I was a design engineer for 35yrs. The jail work was just a blip. Those life experiences formed my lense.

This isn't a competition. No need for cheerleaders waving their pom-poms. This a place for the free exchange of ideas.

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Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by Mackay_Sagebrush
That said, my comments had literally NOTHING to do with police work crazy.

Like it or not, your life experience IS the lens through which you view everything. You were a Cop - you can't change your spots.

I was a design engineer for 35yrs. The jail work was just a blip. Those life experiences formed my lense.

This isn't a competition. No need for cheerleaders waving their pom-poms. This a place for the free exchange of ideas.

Your ideas are fugking hilarious.

LOL


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I do not have nightmares (aka Boomer dreams) of engaging mass shooters or terrorists with a handgun. I prefer my small 100% reliable handgun because in extremely dangerous situations I can bag carry it. This is when one does not have time to draw gun from concealment.

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