Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Blew my Glock up

Caribou and Grizzly hunting on the North Slope last two weeks, i shot a caribou with my G35, stood up and i went to put a finisher in. Damn gun blew up in my hand, mag releases hit my fingers, extractor blew out and the top of the magazine blew away. Got most of the feeling back in my hands now. I had to bulldog the caribou and cut his throat with my Swiss Army knife. Glad it wasn't a bear. Used a rifle on the bear. A little safer distance. I'm looking for a new pistol but i suspect with new parts, this one will shoot again.
Anyone else had this happen?

Yes , Glock 30 case ruptured cost mag & release

Dennis factory ammo? Are you ok not a good thing to have happened out in the bush! Kurt

Unsupported chamber on those, correct?

Glad you’re okay. Now you have a “trophy” story to tell.

Sounds like a well thought out plan. Having only a Swiss Army really adds to the level of brilliance.

Seen alot of 40 cal Glocks do that! Unsupported chamber issues!

Yep.

Seen hot loads in 9mm take them apart too.

My info says the newer generation 40's have a bit more chamber support, but don't have a newer one on hand to confirm.

Seen a few Gen II's let go at USPSA matches, they were repairable.

The Glock opens faster than another semi auto and the 40 S&W is loaded to about 40,000 PSI.
If the gun stayed locked a slight bit longer this would not happen. The chamber supports to the case head thicker part as is.

Was it factory ammo? Bullet setback from loading/unloading. I shoot a few glock 40s and never had an issue. Glad your ok. I would contact ammo company and Glock!

Glad to hear the op is alright. Glock kabooms happen. Unsupported chambers and all.

While doing load development for heavy .40 loads I use a Gen 3 G22 and use a stock recoil spring guide road assembly. That said, beyond that, I run a heavier spring on a guide Wolff guide rod as it prevents the gun from unlocking early and reduces the recoil a bit making the gun shoot a bit smoother. A 20# (and heavier) as shown here is a good one and I use it in 10mm and warm .45 acp loads as well.



These 170 grain polymer coated SWCs at 1200 FPS work fine with a fresh RSA (recoil spring assembly) in Gen 3 and newer guns, but it never hurts to put a heavier spring in and have a few on hand, and swap them out on a semi regular basis. Springs are very cheap insurance as compared to having bad things happen such as what happened to DennisInAZ.

In my Glock 20 10mm I use a 22 lb. recoil spring. The factory spring is 17 lbs. I shoot mostly Underwood 200 gr. XTP hollowpoints at 1250 fps or their 220 gr. hard cast at 1200 fps. The gun is smoother shooting with those full on 10mm loads with the heavier spring and gives 100% reliability.

I do the same with my Glock 20, a 22 lb Wolff recoil spring on a Wolff steel guide rod. I have no problem with any factory loads I've ever used in it (including some .40 S&W's just for fun) or with my hot rod 180 grain loads.

Edit to add: I load new Starline brass, reload it once and let it go after that.

Tag
Good info
Hank

I hate posts like this. Someone comes here to share information that’s of interest to us all, and gets a snarky smarta$$ reply like this.

What an azzhole

People still believe the 40 is an high pressure cartridge. It's runs the same pressure as an 9mm NATO but the difference is expansion characteristics and it reaches "peak" pressure sooner than many other cartridgesbsuch as the 9mm. That is why folks refer to it as snappy. It simply has an more abrupt pressure curve, not higher pressure.

This isnt my opinion but rather a technical paper published on the subject

Then couldn't that be slightly adjusted by the use of a different powder with faster or slower burn rate?

I reached out to Sagebrush but by the time he had any, i was in Alaska and shipping is difficult. I had to make my own loads as i wanted hard cast for bears. I ran 2 full magazines through for accuracy and function testing with no issues.
I guess 15 grains of Bullseye was too much

I put a 20# Wolff spring in it too

If i could post photos i would

If this, as it seems, is mostly confined to Glock 40’s and 10mm’s, why in the world would anyone carry one? Honest question, I have no ax to grind.

A couple old errors came up in this thread. First, pressure is only half the equation. While the 9mm Luger and .40 S&W might generate similar pressure, by virtue of the larger case hear the .40 imparts significantly more pressure to the breech face (bolt thrust). If both cartridges generate 35,000 psi the 9mm will deliver 3,464 lbs and the .40 will deliver 4,398 lbs - a 27% increase. The .40's larger case will also generate more radial pressure and more hoop stress which can also be magnified if the larger bore is cut into a 9mm barrel.

Second, a heavier recoil spring does little to nothing to decrease unlock time and that is being generous.

was the ruptured case still in the barrel?

I had a gen 3 Glock 19 do that it left the case in the barrel. blew the case out on the unsupported ramp on the bottom. It blew the magazine out of the pistol. It was the last round and the mag was empty. stung my hand pretty good. The other damage you reported did not happen on this Kaboom.

I think I had a double load. The ammo was gun show reloads my brother gave me. A fiend of mine thinks the pistol fired out of battery.

The old "40 caliber Glock barrels do have enough chamber support" is one of those things that had some merit many years ago but is extremely dated information.

Sadly it gets repeated by people who don't actually have any personal experience. They simply read something on the internet and repeat it. Usually the information they have read on the internet is not actual first hand information either. It is literally repeated like a parrot over and over by others until it becomes "internet fact".

It is much like the "You must be limp wristing it" phenomenon that has become that catch all response for any semi auto malfunction. People who literally could not describe the cycle of operations of a firearm if their life depends on it will gladly diagnose any issue with a firearm without any real information. If it malfunctions, then "You must be limp wristing it".

Along that same line, any time a .40 caliber Glock is brought up, it must be "poor chamber support". This is in spite of not having any verifiable information. This is the "Limp wristing of the .40 S&W" world. In spite of the fact that Glock changed the chamber dimensions more than 2 DECADES ago.

2nd Generation Glock .40s did have issues, but that was more than 20 years and over 1 MILLION .40 caliber guns ago.


Here are some pics not pulled off the web, but from my bench.

Here is a .40 cal Match grade KKM barrel. You can see the chamber support:






And here is a Gen3 Factory Glock 22 .40 barrel:





And here is a Les Baer .45 Match barrel and its "Chamber support" for comparison:







Confirmation Bias is the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.


Quite often they are wrong.



The punchline is that people repeat the same information and come to conclusions without verifying any facts.

Glad you are ok Dennis.

I’m sure the “15 grains of Bullseye” was a joke but what was the actual load?

Good friend has an early 27, and was loading his ammo with top
level loads. He blew numerous cases.

I was there for the first one, and some of the last.

First was a bit of an issue for us. Neither ever had something like that
happen. But it wasn't a big deal. On firing, it stung his hands.
Then he realized the mag had blown out.


Checked everything, nothing damaged.
Went back to shooting, different ammo.

Wasn't a predictable, repeatable thing. That gun had the chamber cut
out where the ramp feeds the round in. It left nice smileys.
Kinda guessed the ruptures were when a pressed back smiley lined
up with that spot again.

He finally gave up on loading for it. Factory ammo was never an issue.

Glad to hear that Dennis is ok.

Buffalo Bore used to list spring recommendations for using their 10MM 220 gr Hardcast ammo in Glocks. Changed the spring to a 22# in my Glock 20 I used to own accurate and worked well with BB 220 gr hardcast ended up selling the Glock and bought a Springfield XDM 10mm using the same load.

I thought it was snarky myself however I have several Swiss army knives that have never left the house. But then I would have had a belt knife on me. The cool part it trying to kill a caribou with it. That's being snarky!

Have several G23.4's that get shot a lot.

Rules for .40 Glocks:
- Gen 4.
- Factory ammo.
-"Barney" hand chamber loading.

Had a Gen 2 for a long time and never had a problem, either.

PS. .40 - is loaded to 35KPSI, just like std. pressure 9mm Para.




GR

In short, you think he had a well laid out plan. Thanks

Kind of like "I offered $50 to a ho in the southside of Chicago for a BJ, but when I finished I only gave her $20. I got my ass beat and was almost shot by her pimp."

McInnis be like "Thanks for the useful info, I hate that your WELL thought out plan didn't work"

The only useful info in the OP's post is that he was an ill prepared idiot.

Steelhead making friends.
Lol

He ain't wrong. I know a lot here embrace stupidity.

Wow. Because my pistol blew up i was an ill prepared idiot, just wow. How many caribou have you bulldoged and cut their throat. Maybe i should have had a 3rd gun? 2 knives?

I don't remember the load. I'll have to check my records but it was 7+ grains of Longshot under a 180 Acme hard cast bullet

If arseholes were jets, 24HCF would be LAX

I recall my days as PD armorer and Glock told us not to shoot cast bullets. Their rifling wasn't designed for it.
In all the years that I was there and we shot Glock 22, I never saw an issue with them. But we only shot factory ammo and jacketed bullets

What is it about Glock rifling that makes it unsuited to cast bullets?

Believe Glock uses polygonal rifling.

Can you explain why polygonal rifling makes Glocks unsuitable for cast bullets?

My understanding is the recoil spring has very little to do with the timing of the slide and barrel unlocking. The bullet drags the barrel forward as it leaves the barrel and the locking lugs determine when the breech unlocks from the barrel. Slow motion video clearly shows bullets leaving the barrel before slide movement. Spring rates do more to determine how fast the slide goes forward; my experience is the rearward timing does not change much with full power loads. Full power loads just slam the slide back regardless of spring rates. I think the G20 comes with a 17lb spring, I have an STI 10mm that has a 24lb spring, a 10mm Kimber with a 18lb spring, and a DW 10mm commander that I think has an 18lb spring as well. All function, all different spring weights. And yes, different guns.

My understanding of the polygonal rifling is that it lacks the sharp edges of traditional lands and grooves and does not grab soft lead bullets well. So the bullets sort of get mushed forward leading the barrel and not spinning properly. Hard cast lead reportedly does not have that problem.

Can't speak to the 40's or the nines (had both, but no KKM barrels for either), but the KKM G30 barrel I had, had quite a bit more support than the factory barrel.

I ran light 45 Super in it with no issue.

Had a picture, but apparently tossed it.

Jerry

My instance I believe was a weak case..

I understand the logic of soft lead bullets as you have described, but in describing cast bullets I am presuming hard cast bullets. Maybe I’m off base in making this assumption? In a broad statement attributed to Glock technicians that recommends no cast bullets I would certainly presume that includes hard cast bullets. If this is so, the question of why this is a problem remains unanswered.

The question has been answered many times. The answer is that in worst case examples Glock barrels have opened up like a flower into multiple petals. In best case examples no problems. Murphy being what he is to assume best case is the proverbial ass of you and me. The Glock factory warning in its present form is based on bitter experience and is by no means hypothetical over-concern. It's not just worry over lawyers and lawsuits it's observed results. The internet is full of discussion some of it well informed as at Glocktalk and at Castboolits. I wasn't there but I am inclined to credit worst case reports with one magazine full of soft (swaged?) lead in a normal capacity magazine and so leading was not observed and cleaned because the shooting session was still in progress with only a few shots fired. Then again at least in normal barrels my own best tempered cast bullets with ample beeswax/alox did not build up lead in barrels with hundreds and thousands of H&G 130 bullets with 3.5 grains of bullseye in a 1911 wad gun. - smoked some though. I've never fired much lead in a Glock.

Notice that in general bullets fired in a revolver will show some distortion, sometimes called "skid marks" from already being in forward motion as the bullet enters the rifling and heavy for caliber cast bullets will show often similar distortion in semi-automatic pistols with conventional rifling.


Keith Wood writing for the NRA. Little enough respect as I have for the NRA in today's world the Dope Bag can still be a useful resource for members with specific questions.

I might add that although I have no knowledge and can't speak to the Glock the 1911 is a locked breech pistol and can be safely if abusively fired with no return spring at all.

The sole Glock kaboom I have any personal knowledge of was no harm done. Reloads with no other issues in the lot. The collective best guess was that a previously guppy case - possibly multiple times guppy and resized - was work hardened and weakened and the erased guppy portion of the case happened to align just so with the feed ramp relief this time through.

The issue is stripping at land engagement, posted above. Harder reduces stripping, a check reduces it even more. If the engagement strips at the base, whether you can see it on a recovered bullet, no matter how hard the bullet is, will still cause layered leading. The harder the better is always good insurance.

This is an issue not only in Glocks, but its exacerbated in a Glock due to the shallowness of the rifling and rounded nature of the leading edge. Colt rifling, though cut square, is known for pretty shallow and narrow rifling.

The diameter of the bullet also plays a role. A smaller diameter bullet has a tendency to strip engagement easier than a larger diameter due to less area that moves during the "load" and displacement of engagement. As fat as will function and chamber provides more insurance, but its a good idea to know how the bullet fits before you have problems. A lot of commercial lead bullets are sized to function in everyone's gun and generally are in nominal, smaller diameters that reflect jacketed bullet sizes. Most of the time this isn't an issue.


The rifling edge itself can create a stripping gap if its uneven in thickness. The base can be distorted by a wider rifling area, then encounter a smaller width rifling; instant gap on the bullet base. Pretty rare with modern machining, but it doesn't take much.

Its wise to stack the cards in your favor and most people don't have problems with hard cast lead in Glocks if they know what to look for beforehand and make sure lead fouling isn't an issue when shooting. The equipment today also tends to be pretty forgiving, another reason most don't see any issues.

Anyone who has seen revolver bullets and seen the "skidding" that takes place from engagement to bullet base knows what goes on.
An FYI, jacketed bullets, being harder than even the hardest cast lead, will still skid, it just doesn't create the fouling issues when it does.

Good post.

Glad that you're ok and still managed to get the caribou.

My only 10mm/40 is a blackhawk. But I do have 9mm and 380 glocks, so thanks for posting.

Why did Glock select poly rifling? Is it a quicker spinner upper or something? What’s the benefit over standard tongue & groove.

I had one of the first 10 mm’s, like back in 93.

It was the middle of winter when I was going to test some loads (200 grain XTP). Colder than a bitch outside. Anyway the first shot was a click. I thought I forgot to chamber a round. I had doubled up on ear protection( plugs and muffs)., so I never heard anything suspicious.

Anyway I racked the slide and fired over a rest. At the shot, i though it recoiled a touch much. The target had an oblong hole in it. Turns out it was two bullet holes, one on top of the other.

After the snow pile had melted in the spring I found those two bullets, l kept them for years as reminder and conversation piece. So I had shot 400 grains out the barrel. The pistol was totally fine.

And you did not NOTICE it throwing an empty shell out???????

That sounds like something I would do. LOL

Mmmm... Twice I have seen guys firing a double action revolver in PPC matches experience a squib load which only drove the bullet up into the barrel and it stuck there. Then not noticing and being focused on shooting fast double action the shooter fired another round and either stacked the bullets in the barrel or shot the first one out. I have never seen that with a semi auto. I would guess there is too much that goes wrong with an auto pistol and the gun malfunctions or the shooter notices and doesn't fire the second round.

Dennis,

First off, Im glad you are ok.

2nd, 7 something grains of LS with a 180 cast lead bullet as you know is not a real high pressure load. You should have been fine. No aspersions being cast on your reloading abilities but sometimes stuff happens-I would pull remaining loads. Maybe there was a double charge?

Were your loads in new brass or previously fired?

One thing Ive done on my G20 is to go to a 6" KKM barrel. It gives me around 100-150 more fps than the factory Glock barrel depending on bullet and load. This is with factory ammo and my handloads. So without using higher pressure loads, I get more velocity which is why some guys jack up their reloads. Again, your stated load seems reasonable and Im not inferring your load was intentionally a "hot" load. Let us know if you find anything out as to what may have caused this.

Regards,

Manny

If you are getting 100 to 150 fps more velocity in the new barrel then your loads are certainly developing more pressure in the new barrel.
No way around that

There's all kinds of various answers, but I'd suspect its easier to mass produce them the way they make barrels. A lot of European manufacturers use hammer forged, rounded land pistol barrels. Glock isn't exclusive in that regard.

I shot plenty of cast bullets in my M19 when I had it. They were cast out of straight wheelweights and lubed with Alox, and I cleaned it regularly. Never had an issue, and some of that ammo was loaded pretty warm. I never could warm up to the thing, though, and sold it after about six months. I liked my HiPower better. And a Tanfoglio, or anything else. I just didn't like the thing.
But it shot okay, and never caused any issues I knew of.

Following up with what Manny said,

That load does not sound hot at all. LOTS of things can happen though. Barrel obstruction, weak brass, worn spring, etc.


First I will put this out there. NOTHING below is anything negative on Dennis. Many things could have happened, and without being there to witness or gather information firsthand, anything is really just conjecture.

In doing product development and testing I will and do often test loads that are FAR beyond what I am going to offer to the public for sale. I do this to provide a margin of safety built into the ammo.

I know that while the vast majority of the people that buy my ammo are reasonably smart people and use common sense, there are always a few that fall into the other category.

I also know that for whatever reason that there are a certain percentage of gun owners and guys in general that are total cheapskates. They flat out will not do preventative maintenance on their firearms.

True high performance .40S&W loads are ones where being cheap and not pulling preventative maintenance and having fresh springs in your gun is absolutely a time bomb. It is not "If". but "When".


Below is a cut and paste from another forum and a "back and forth conversation between two individuals, one of whom has never changed his recoil spring in a reported 20,000 rounds on one .40 S&W Glock and allegedly twice as many on another .40 S&W Glock.







" By the way one of my glock 22s and my glock 23 have at least 20k on them and i wouldnt doubt the 23 has double that and the same recoil spring glock put in it at the factory is still going strong and ive NEVER had to replace a spring in a glock magazine. Ive had to fart with them in the cheap aftermarket mags but NEVER a glock factory mag. Ill add to that every mag i have in the house is stuffed full and left that way till its used and put away loaded when im done."


Xxxxx,

Empty out your Glocks, point the muzzle straight up, pull the trigger. Now holding the trigger back still, pull the slide all the way back. Now slowly ease it forward, gently. Does it close all the way? If so, you're golden. If not, if just doesn't quite lock up the recoil spring is past it's useful life. This is the correct, factory approved test.

And I can tell you, if you've got 20K + on a recoil spring you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past due for a change. Knowing you I expect you'll report perfect performance: it's all good. But at 30 or 40K on one spring you're battering the hell out of the frame.

Just FYI.


ive NEVER had to replace a spring in a glock branded mag in any of my glocks. The guns get lubed with about anything i happen to have on the shelf but mostly tetra grease or oil. only mag spring malfunctions have been with cheap aftermarket mags. By the sounds of it youve had more glock failures just in your house then ive heard of from all the glock owners i know. But you have me figured out! Im a bald faced lyre that knows little about shooting handguns Ill bow to your vastly superior knowledge. After all ive only been doing this for 50 years. Well thats a lie too. I didnt get my first glock until i was 33 so only 32 years experience with them. Im out of this one. Kind of out of placed here. Not near the experience as some and just a macho redneck that isnt afraid of the violent recoil of a 40sw


The reason I cut and pasted that, is that "Mr Orange" is absolutely an accident waiting to happen. Guns will often function with totally worn out recoil springs or other parts, though they are battering the snot out of the frame while they continue to function. But when you introduce a high performance load into the pistol, you run into major problems. Where a properly maintained pistol would function as normal, "Mr Orange's" pistol is a catastrophic problem waiting to happen.

This thought process of MR ORANGE is no different than saying. "I don't need new tires. My tires are still round, They have not popped yet. Just because they have no tread on them means nothing, don't tell me my business, I have been driving for 50 years"

Then when MR ORANGE crashes due to a tire failure, it is "All the tire's fault" and he did nothing wrong.

AKA Glocks are POS plastic guns. .40 S&W Glocks are dangerous, etc, etc.





Just FYI,

On .40 S&W and 10MM I change recoil spring every 2,000 rounds, or do the spring test and if it shows signs of being weak, I pitch it. Springs super cheap. Less than $10. It is stupid not to swap them out versus risking destroying your gun.



Now, back to the topic of "Lead in Glocks". Without going into a massive writeup, there is an incredible difference between a hardcast bullet and a pure lead one. If one does not know the difference, do some research. In the last 30 years I have fired literally 100s of thousands of hard cast projectiles through Glocks. 100s of thousands. Without an issue. If you know what you are doing, it is not an issue. Plain and simple.

That is not "I read it on the internet, and so and so says".

That is 30 years of first hand experience as a USPSA competitor, government firearms instructor, LE instructor, running embassy armory programs, teaching citizens, teaching military, private contracting, and as a commercial producer of ammunition for various groups. That includes developing, testing and producing specialty ammo for organizations/groups. And now finally selling some to the public.


Prior to this last weekend I was testing some polymer coated lead semi wadcutter 170 grain ammo in .40, in a Gen 3 Glock 22. Part of the test was performance using a standard recoil spring assembly (RSA) and then heavier spring weights.











Part of the test was velocity extreme spread.

Without going into a ton of details, and I just don't have time this morning, the punchline is this. The stock RSA, with the rather hot loads ends up with very wide velocity variations. the heavier the load, with stock a stock RSA, the more inconsistent the velocity.

Using heavier recoil springs, the velocity extreme spread settled down and became very consistent.

In one of the top end loads, which I will not post the details of (AND DO NOT PM ME, I WILL NOT DISCUSS THE POWDER, CHARGE WEIGHT ETC. JUST DONT ASK.) I was running the 170 grain poly coat lead bullet consistently at 1275 FPS. This is a load that is not intended for sale and purely for testing purposes.


That said, the brass, with a heavy spring showed zero signs of extreme pressure. Primer pockets were good, brass was in excellent shape and the velocity was very consistent.







I ran around 500 rounds of heavy .40, designed for deep penetration through a stock Glock barrel and had zero issues.

I could have gone quite a bit hotter, but I was well within the margins of what I needed for my project, so there was no need. Interestingly enough, the 40 S&W 170 grain poly coat SWCs were exceeding some 10mm "name brand" ammo I have shot over the chrono, by a fair little bit.



Info gathered first hand from actually going out and getting data yourself trumps "I read it somewhere".

And here is another 20,000 rounds of .40 caliber "first hand info" getting ready to be gathered.






CHEERS ALL!

Dennis,

glad you are ok

JWP,

You're right, I could have worded that better. Likely a tighter chamber, throat, maybe the type of rifling, and the longer barrel probably all contribute somewhat to the higher fps as compared to the Glock factory barrel.

Regards,

Manny

Macay, Buffalo Bore recommended heavier springs in the Glock 20 in 10mm with their 220-grain cast loads and they also said shot-to-shot velocity variation went way down. Just as you experienced. My accuracy improved with the heavier spring and 220-grain cast loads. Ordered a 22# spring for my Springfied XDM 10 MM

This quote from BB that SU35 posted explains it better than I can

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...glock-10mm-with-heavy-loads#Post16891543

What the owner of Buffalo Bore experienced in his testing is pretty spot on and parallels what I have done and observed. I generally don't take anyone's word for things unless I know them personally or know their background/credentials and testing processes/procedures. That said, what the owner of BB has found in his results and loads is right in line with my own.

Your observation that accuracy also improved with the heavier spring/heavier projectile is one that I have noted as well.

I have been doing a substantial amount of testing of a heavy .40 load as of late. Using a polymer coated 170 grain SWC and have gotten some truly excellent accuracy. Traditionally .40 Glock barrels have not been noted for their stellar accuracy, but in testing I have noted that these heavy loads shoot very very well.

I will likely offer a heavy 170 grain load specifically for 3rd Gen and newer Glocks, but I may actually sell it with a guide rod and heavier spring as an added measure of safety to ensure that people are properly set up, since I have seen far too many Glocks with completely worn out RSAs, and people assume that if the gun is still functioning then it must be OK.

Guck Flock, their pisstols fit the hand like schidt.

Retard alert.

Same old whine.

"I can't shoot this because it does not fit".

A competent shooter will be able to pick up a Glock, a K Frame .38, a Ruger Service 6, a Colt New Service, or a Colt 1911 and shoot them all reasonably well. Using the "it does not fit my hand, so that's why I can't hit anything" is and always has been a pretty telling sign.

lol

My money goes to S&W for pistols that point like a thought.

Mackay,

What have you seen far as bullet set back during recoil and excessive pressures? You think this might have happened with Dennis reloads? I know when I load up 10 or 40 ammo I do use a Lee factory crimp die.

It is pure speculation without being able to observe anything. Bullet setback could be a cause. Many things can be a contributing factor to that that do not get considered too often.

Dirty dies is one thing that rarely gets discussed, but most could use maintenance. When running progressive presses and loading any decent volume they need to be maintained. Most don't do regular maintenance. Most dies contain built up crud in them and especially when using hard cast bullets with lube, the build up happens faster.

My toolheads get pulled on a regular scheduled interval and I use 99% alcohol (I buy it by the case) and a bunch of swabs to clean them to make sure they are free of buildup as it does not take much to affect the overall length. I go through a very specific cleaning routine to ensure that the machines are extremely clean.

In the case of Dillons (being the most commonly used progressive) another thing is the powder funnels in the powder station. Most use some manner of lube on cases when doing high volume, and depending on the mix, it can cause some powder buildup in the powder drop. This is one of those areas that does not get checked often enough by some folks and then they have inconsistent throws.

I have torn down a few powder stations for guys and shown the individual the blockage before. It is normally caused by the lube from the cases. Mine get cleaned constantly while loading. You will get inconsistent powder charges otherwise. For example, you may go from a standard charge of 10 grains and then the buildup starts slowly reducing charges, and you get charges of 9.7, 9.8, 9.8. 9.9, etc, then you can go one way or another. The powder may dump in a clump, and you get a 13 grain charge instead of a 10, or you get almost no powder at all.

It pays to be super diligent and have a very clean press.





My 1100 thats dedicated to heavy 9mm gets torn down to the frame on a regular basis:




All of this is to show and to say that it is very easy to have an inconsistent powder charge and not know it if you are not on top of various aspects of press maintenance.

There can be lots of reasons why Dennis' incident happened.

There may have been an unknown barrel obstruction. A piece of dirt, branch, etc. Various things.

I was at a range years back with a concrete pad and an agent dropped some factory .45 rounds from his hand. One dropped on the nose and it pushed the bullet back into the case. I saw it and picked it up. The
guy was not a "gun guy" and did not know that it was not a good idea to shoot the round. Bearing in mind it was a .45 230 grain round, it likely would have not been an issue, but the point is that lots of things can, and do happen.

That is a good example of setback and excessive pressure. In the case of .40 and 10mm, they don't really have much room for error, especially when it comes to the top end. performance rounds. Any sort of setback at all, and I would not shoot them.

Longshot, the powder Dennis was using is a very low pressure powder and is very forgiving. You can get excellent velocities and not see much in terms of pressure. It is one of the better powders out there in terms of upper end performance in semi autos. It also meters very well. Some powders don't but it is one of the better ones for precise metering. The actual intended charge weight of the load does not sound like an issue at all.





Back to the topic of the LEE crimp dies

I too use LEE crimp dies and they are great for making very consistent ammo. I use an assortment of other dies. Some may be standard Hornady or RCBS or a Wilson or Redding Micrometer, but I very much prefer the LEE for crimp dies. Especially for revolver ammo. Their roll crimp dies are the only way to go for heavy hunting ammo in revolvers.

Hope this helps.

Mackay, I appreciate you sharing your expertise in building high end ammo and emphasizing the brain power needed to harness it. As well you seem to know enough about Glocks to critique when necessary. But enough pablum. I shoot primarily jacketed bullets but will most likely load some of the 170gr poly coated bullets you mention for my son. He’s in the Cali high country and does outback treks for dudes and dudesses in the summer. Should he run into a cougar or black bear looking to expand their diet the 170 SWC appears to be a good defensive bullet. Not to mention the possibility of a grizzly on summer vacation.

I load the .40 mostly with PowerPistol as close to max as I can without getting the smile. Most of my loads now are the 165gr Montana Gold HP at 1/10 gr below max. With these bullets at those specs, and the 170 SWC at velocity determined by the smile criteria would you consider a stock spring sufficient, or would you go heavier. Say, to the 20 or 22 lb. His pistol is a Gen 2 G22 and I shoot a Gen 2 G23. Thx

While the Gen 3 barrels definitely have updated barrel chamber support, the older Gen 2s were a bit lacking and were upgraded. It was not only the barrel but the locking block as well.

I was involved in dealing with Glock back when there was an issue with the locking blocks. I ended up discovering that the Glock 22 (1 pin) .40 cal locking blocks were rising up out of the frame and hitting the underside of the slide. During our annual inspections (I was a firearms instructor as well as armorer for an agency) I noted distinct wear patterns on the underside of the G22s. Long story short, I discovered the locking block was pivoting out of the frame and making contact with the slide.

This was doing it with enough force to cut grooves in the slide. We were looking at deadlining every single G22 issued due to this. (our agency issued both Glock .40 and .45 ACP Glocks. Fortunately the vast majority carried .45s)

The reason is, as I explained to my director is that what was happening was slowing the slide velocity down. Slide velocity is paramount to reliability. The whole reason we teach people to grip a gun tightly, don't rest the gun against barricades, etc is to provide a rock solid vice like platform for the frame, so the slide can reciprocate back and forth as it should, cycling the gun properly.

Long story short, I worked with Glock and they ended up replacing all of our Glock 22 1 pin locking block handguns with newly redesigned 2 pin locking block handguns. The 2 pin locking blocks totally eliminated the problem. They did this for free, as they did not want the publicity I suppose. I don't know if they called the newly redesigned guns an upgrade or what. I just know the old one pin .40 cal guns were a thing of the past.

I can't and won't recommend hot loads for older Gen 2 .40s as they don't have the same upgrades as the newer guns.

In your case, I would not go with a stock RSA. The heavier spring the better. A Wolff guide rod and the heaviest spring that allows the gun to cycle. 22 would be good.

Hope that helps.

Any experience with the gen 5 .40 caliber Glocks Mack?

Not yet!

The Gen 5 9mm barrels though are quite impressive in the accuracy department. Quantifiable accuracy difference between the Gen 3 and 5s. I don't think there is a more reliable service 9mm in the world than the Gen 3 G17 in terms of an out of the box gun, but the new Gen 5 9mm guns I have shot are really, truly tack drivers.

Eventually I will grab a couple but there a few guns I need for T&E purposes that I need to pick up first, so that will have to wait until the budget allows.

Is the 2 pin block compatible with a gen 2 frame or would that upgrade require going to a gen 3 complete lower with the gen 2 barrel & slide assembly?

Also we have another G22 Gen 2 that is giving ejection problems. This pistol has been shot little, mostly because of being prone to malfunction but also because it’s just not been needed. But it apparently needs to go back to Smyrna. Since day 1 it has failed to extract on probably 40 to 50% of rounds fired. And I’m talking 4 different brands of factory loads in 180, 170, and 155 gr jacketed. Also with 165 and 150 gr handloads. It appears the extractor is jumping the rim because the round picked up from the magazine is found nose to primer with the fired case. The extractor itself appears good and spring tension on it is strong. Baffles me. And the worst rounds of all are Nosler 150 with 7.8 and 8.0 gr PP. Mostly 7.8 because the smileys go away there. Pistol jams on probably 80% of those. Could the block issue possibly cause early contact knocking the case from the extractor?

Thank you for the heads up on the powder funnel on the Dillon progressives. I run a 650 and granted don’t load like you but I never bothered looking funnel tube. I will now add that to my list of things to do. Also need to clean my dies more often. Thanks again..

79s

No worries Friend.

A lot of these things were learned the hard way and I got tired of pulling rounds apart over the years, Grin.



Dennis' topic is a good conversation to have as it brings up things that others may not be considering. I do a lot of development of loads on 550s as they are like the chevy 350 of the press world. Super easy to work on too.

On the 550/650, the powder measure assembly has the ability to pull the top, with all the powder still inside w/o spilling powder everywhere so you can access the powder funnel to clean it.

I pull mine on a regular basis, while full of powder and give the funnel a quick cleaning. It does not take 5 minutes to pull it, clean and put it back together. Then run a dozen or so charges to confirm the consistent dops and carry on.

This is an example from a quick clean.

Seating die:






In the case below, most of this debris is a combo of shaved brass and lube. It is so fine it is almost like a paste. Not really hurting anything at the point of buildup where it was but it gets cleaned anyways. It requires quite a bit more to actually change the overall length of a round, but there is no reason to let it get anywhere close to that dirty.
The shaving happens when the cases get belled/flared prior to the bullet getting seated, then when the bullet gets seated, a very tiny amount gets shaved. The less flare you have, the less shaving occurs BTW. Most will recognize this by the resistance they feel when trying to seat the bullet when a case has been flared too much.

Anyways, the micro shavings do get built up and need to get wiped out during regular maintenance.

I've got a Square Deal B that I have never even seen the powder funnel, guess I better pull it apart and clean things up a bit just to be on the safe side.

Good info!

Dennisinaz: I worked on a large west coast first class cities Police Department for 29 years - the last nine years the department switched their 1,100 (one thousand on hundred!) officers over to Glock pistols in 40 S&W caliber.
Those 1,100 officers were required to "qualify" twice a year with said Glocks using defense type factory ammunition!
I figgered it up and that came to a total of 990,000 (nine hundred and ninety thousand!) rounds fired without a single "blow-up"!
I have NO idea why you blew up your Glock but I do know that I use all my Glock pistols with complete confidence and proficiency.
Long live Glock.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have seen Glocks let go. 1911s, Beretta M9s, M240s, M249s Colt/FN M4s, etc all of them have failures (usually ammo related (or in the case of GPMGs and LMGs firing too much ammo too quickly and overheating the weapons, which os more of an operator issue than a weapon failure as far as I am concerned) and let go at one point in time or another.

I have also seen PLENTY of AK-47s fail in spite of what the general public believes through tall tales about their reliability.

It can and does happen. Anything that is a mechanical device is subject to failure. While it is my opinion based on observation and experience that the Glocks primarily the full size Gen 3 9mm such as the G19/G17) are about the single most reliable semi auto service sidearm available, I don't think they are impervious to failure.

Even Ruger Blackhawk revolvers can and will fail from time to time. It happens.

Seems to be more 40 S&W Glocks that KaBoom than any other

Mackey,
A little off topic, what are OEM springs in gen3 and gen4 G19s?

And, should they be replaced with rods for buffalo bore +P Outdoorsman 147gr hard cast?

Thanks.

Gen 3 and 4 Glock 9mm springs are 17#s.

I feel like I would be out of my lane commenting on what to do for Buffalo Bore products since they are another company. It just does not seem appropriate for me to do so. I would refer to their website or call them. No doubt they will offer good advice.

I can say that for my own heavy hard cast 9mm load, it is designed to function with a fresh stock RSA, but when I intend to shoot a significant amount of them, I swap out the guide rod and put in a heavier, 20# spring. Can't hurt.

This last weekend I was carrying my heavy hardcast 9mm loads in my G19. I was up at my cabin with little minions and it is an area with plenty of predators. Wolves lions and bears. I have had more than one encounter with a lion in the area.







It is a good load for such an activity.