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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
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I probably should do a round 3 follow-up. Pretty sure I have some PT's that weren't cut yet. I'd be all eyes to see that. Some may find the following both interesting and having some significance: I have two .338-caliber, 250gr Partitions retrieved from a bull moose. From 165 yards the first went through the broadside chest behind the shoulders, sending lung tissue and blood about 20 yards across the bushes. The 1000 - 1100 lb bull staggered but wasn't going anywhere. The 250 Partitiion left the muzzle of my .340 Wby at ~ 3000 fps (many chronographed before the hunt). So impact was around the .338 Win Mags published MV. I sidestepped a few yards for a better angle and the bull saw me for the first time and started to swing away. I gave him another that hit behind the short ribs as he was swinging away and he went down in a depression, out of sight. But I was ready to give another if he got back up, which he didn't until a few minutes later when my son arrived from a blind 350 yards away. He got too close and the bull stood in a very wobbly condition - and wasn't going anywhere. But I'd closed the distance to about 35 yards, and when he stood all I could see was his rump facing me whereupon I gave him another in the rump and he went down to stay. My son saw the bulge of my second shot on the offside about 4 inches from the exit wound from the first shot. He dug it out with a knife. That was the first 250gr retrieved. The 250gr from the third shot into the rump was also found by the butcher in the front part of the chest cavity. Before the carcass was delivered to the butcher 36 hours later (we had to wait until the following day to finish matters before leaving camp, then a 1000 mile drive home, then the following morning the moose was delivered to the butcher). So the moose had been field dressed and cut in two aft the short ribs to fit on out trailer. That bullet, as stated, was found by the butcher in the front portion of the rib cage. The two bullet retrieved: The second, found under the hide by my son next to the first exit wound = 173 grains (69%)/ .61" avg diameter/ .58" in length. The last shot (3rd) into the rump, found by the butcher in forward part of chest cavity = 175 grains (70%)/ .70" by .62" expansion/ .45" in length, from 35 yards impact velocity was 2900 fps yet it epanded more, penetrated more and was significantly shorter! Of course, impact velocity was about 250 fps faster than the first two shots from 165 yards. A 286 Partition was retrieved from a black bear shot frontally in the chest. In skinning it was found just poking through the hide in the right flank just in front of the hip. That bear went over an embankment and found dead at the bottom. It's retrieval is another story, but: The bullet had tumbled with some "wings" on one side pointing forward. Nontheless, it retained 74% of initial weight (211 grains). MV from my 9.3 x 62 (1/14 twist) = +2600 fps. From treestand to bear = 68 yards as it faced me. Bob www.bigbores.caGreat info. I shot a few elk with the 250 PT's from the 338 Win with a 2780 start speed and never even came close to recovering one of them. 210's whistled thru elk pretty easily as well. I've only ever caught a single 210gr Partition out of a 338 Win Mag. Exits on deer, elk, bison. But caught one in a doe pronghorn... HA, I have heard of them getting snagged on smaller animals and breaking apart on bone, but in my experience they are giant killers. I'd imagine it was a long shot through the antelope? Meaning a steep angle.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,661
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,661 |
I probably should do a round 3 follow-up. Pretty sure I have some PT's that weren't cut yet. I'd be all eyes to see that. Some may find the following both interesting and having some significance: I have two .338-caliber, 250gr Partitions retrieved from a bull moose. From 165 yards the first went through the broadside chest behind the shoulders, sending lung tissue and blood about 20 yards across the bushes. The 1000 - 1100 lb bull staggered but wasn't going anywhere. The 250 Partitiion left the muzzle of my .340 Wby at ~ 3000 fps (many chronographed before the hunt). So impact was around the .338 Win Mags published MV. I sidestepped a few yards for a better angle and the bull saw me for the first time and started to swing away. I gave him another that hit behind the short ribs as he was swinging away and he went down in a depression, out of sight. But I was ready to give another if he got back up, which he didn't until a few minutes later when my son arrived from a blind 350 yards away. He got too close and the bull stood in a very wobbly condition - and wasn't going anywhere. But I'd closed the distance to about 35 yards, and when he stood all I could see was his rump facing me whereupon I gave him another in the rump and he went down to stay. My son saw the bulge of my second shot on the offside about 4 inches from the exit wound from the first shot. He dug it out with a knife. That was the first 250gr retrieved. The 250gr from the third shot into the rump was also found by the butcher in the front part of the chest cavity. Before the carcass was delivered to the butcher 36 hours later (we had to wait until the following day to finish matters before leaving camp, then a 1000 mile drive home, then the following morning the moose was delivered to the butcher). So the moose had been field dressed and cut in two aft the short ribs to fit on out trailer. That bullet, as stated, was found by the butcher in the front portion of the rib cage. The two bullet retrieved: The second, found under the hide by my son next to the first exit wound = 173 grains (69%)/ .61" avg diameter/ .58" in length. The last shot (3rd) into the rump, found by the butcher in forward part of chest cavity = 175 grains (70%)/ .70" by .62" expansion/ .45" in length, from 35 yards impact velocity was 2900 fps yet it epanded more, penetrated more and was significantly shorter! Of course, impact velocity was about 250 fps faster than the first two shots from 165 yards. A 286 Partition was retrieved from a black bear shot frontally in the chest. In skinning it was found just poking through the hide in the right flank just in front of the hip. That bear went over an embankment and found dead at the bottom. It's retrieval is another story, but: The bullet had tumbled with some "wings" on one side pointing forward. Nontheless, it retained 74% of initial weight (211 grains). MV from my 9.3 x 62 (1/14 twist) = +2600 fps. From treestand to bear = 68 yards as it faced me. Bob www.bigbores.caGreat info. I shot a few elk with the 250 PT's from the 338 Win with a 2780 start speed and never even came close to recovering one of them. 210's whistled thru elk pretty easily as well. I've only ever caught a single 210gr Partition out of a 338 Win Mag. Exits on deer, elk, bison. But caught one in a doe pronghorn... HA, I have heard of them getting snagged on smaller animals and breaking apart on bone, but in my experience they are giant killers. I'd imagine it was a long shot through the antelope? Meaning a steep angle. Yep. In through the breast bone and broke the femur, under the hide. Shot was at about 65yds.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,325 Likes: 4 |
I’m sure you could see the reaction on that hit.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,661
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2002
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I’m sure you could see the reaction on that hit. Sorta. By the time I came out of recoil it was down and not moving. By the time I walked up to it there was still hair falling out of the air. LOL.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
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Semper Fi
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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I wonder how the 250's would work out of a. 338-06? They look pretty stout. What's the minimum velocity for reliable expansion?
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,325 Likes: 4 |
I wonder how the 250's would work out of a. 338-06? They look pretty stout. What's the minimum velocity for reliable expansion? I wouldn't be scared taking about any of the PT's down to 1800-2000 myself. Seem like the front end is always pretty soft on them. I think there are a few folks over the years I have heard who had great results from the 250's in a 338-06.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,172 Likes: 18 |
[/quote]I wouldn't be scared taking about any of the PT's down to 1800-2000 myself. Seem like the front end is always pretty soft on them. I think there are a few folks over the years I have heard who had great results from the 250's in a 338-06.[/quote]
Was told several years ago by Nosler that they the same relatively soft lead-alloy in ALL the front cores of Partition, but the harder rear core alloy can vary, depending on the specific bullet. But like some other bullet companies, they're often tweaking bullets.
That's also why the percentage of weight retained varies from the smallest to largest Partitions. The largest also have the partition moved forward to retain a higher percentage of weight. Don't know exactly which models that's done with right now, but highest percentage I've had any retain was 95% from a 400-grain .416 shot into a big Botswana Cape buffalo that was angling away. It entered the rear of the left ribs and was found in the right shoulder. Muzzle velocity was right around 2400, and the range maybe 60 yards. Also have a pair of 300-grain .375's from a buffalo, started at 2550 from a .375 H&H, that retained 88% and 87%, if I recall correctly.
Another statement directly from Nosler (also made a few years ago, so it could have changed) was all of the larger, heavier Partitions are designed to retain around 75% of their original weight, even if they lose the front core. The least I've seen retained by one of them was 74%, a 286-grain 9.3 that broke the shoulder-joint of a blue wildebeest that was quartering toward me at around 200 yards--which lost the front core and almost all front jacket as well. But another one (same velocity, from the same 9.3x62 load) retained a little over 90% of it weight, after going through the flesh behind the big joint on both shoulders of a very bid-bodied British Columbia bull moose.
The least percentage of weight I've seen from a recovered Partition was 54%. It was a 150-grain .270, which Eileen put into the left ribs of a quartering-away bull Shiras moose, which we found under the hide of the right shoulder--muzzle velocity 2850 fps, range around 125 yards. The bull took a step-and-a-half and folded up. (It was an average sort of meat bull, but was still as large as any bull elk I've seen on the ground.)
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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That 150 PT is a good'un in my book. One of the more easy accurate ones too. Been alot of 270's over the years that have done excellent.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Nov 2019
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Campfire Regular
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It's good to read about rifle loonies being so interested in bullet performance. I don't feel so lonely in this world anymore.
Anyway, on my next deer hunting trip to Admiralty Island, (where the shots are short and the bears are thick), I'll be taking my 338-06 and 250 grain Partitions. Meat friendly and good bear medicine if I get in a pinch.
Liars should have good memories.
H. Babcock
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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That 150 PT is a good'un in my book. One of the more easy accurate ones too. Been alot of 270's over the years that have done excellent. Yep! Just bought some "overruns" from Nosler's Pro Shop, which have cannelures, indicating they might have been intended for Federal factory loads. Suspect they might shoot very well in my new-to-me pre-'64 Model 70 Featherweight.....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
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Probably a fair chance they’ll do well. One of the easy accurate bullets through the years. Plus they match up well with the old Bitterroots I like to use.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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It's good to read about rifle loonies being so interested in bullet performance. I don't feel so lonely in this world anymore.
Anyway, on my next deer hunting trip to Admiralty Island, (where the shots are short and the bears are thick), I'll be taking my 338-06 and 250 grain Partitions. Meat friendly and good bear medicine if I get in a pinch. Would be interested to hear how your hunt goes.
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 504
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 504 |
It's good to read about rifle loonies being so interested in bullet performance. I don't feel so lonely in this world anymore.
Anyway, on my next deer hunting trip to Admiralty Island, (where the shots are short and the bears are thick), I'll be taking my 338-06 and 250 grain Partitions. Meat friendly and good bear medicine if I get in a pinch. Would be interested to hear how your hunt goes. Hopefully next year. I go about every other year.
Liars should have good memories.
H. Babcock
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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That 150 PT is a good'un in my book. One of the more easy accurate ones too. Been alot of 270's over the years that have done excellent. I’ve heard several guys talk very highly of that bullet
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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That 150 PT is a good'un in my book. One of the more easy accurate ones too. Been alot of 270's over the years that have done excellent. I’ve heard several guys talk very highly of that bullet It’s one of the Partitions that seem to punch above it’s weight class but really it’s just a great balance between anticipated impact velocity & bullet design which seems to make all the difference with most bullets.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I’d be interested in seeing 130, 140, 150, & 160 grain 277 partitions. It seems SPS has had a lot of 270 Partitions for sale over the last couple of years. I ended up with some in each weight.
As far as the discussion with the different bullet diameters. It seems to me that at one time; as the diameter of the bullet increased so did the thickness of the jacket and perhaps the change in the core. That is a 338 bullet would be built “tougher” than a 308 bullet. I don’t think that’s necessarily true now.
Bullet technology has changed so much. Compare what we have for choices today to what was available before Nosler designed his partitions.
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,172 Likes: 18 |
I’d be interested in seeing 130, 140, 150, & 160 grain 277 partitions. It seems SPS has had a lot of 270 Partitions for sale over the last couple of years. I ended up with some in each weight.
As far as the discussion with the different bullet diameters. It seems to me that at one time; as the diameter of the bullet increased so did the thickness of the jacket and perhaps the change in the core. That is a 338 bullet would be built “tougher” than a 308 bullet. I don’t think that’s necessarily true now.
Bullet technology has changed so much. Compare what we have for choices today to what was available before Nosler designed his partitions. You apparently haven't read my posts, or book chapters, that mention how Partitions definitely do vary depending on caliber/weight. In fact posted one on this subject on this thread, last evening.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: May 2014
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I’d be interested in seeing 130, 140, 150, & 160 grain 277 partitions. It seems SPS has had a lot of 270 Partitions for sale over the last couple of years. I ended up with some in each weight.
As far as the discussion with the different bullet diameters. It seems to me that at one time; as the diameter of the bullet increased so did the thickness of the jacket and perhaps the change in the core. That is a 338 bullet would be built “tougher” than a 308 bullet. I don’t think that’s necessarily true now.
Bullet technology has changed so much. Compare what we have for choices today to what was available before Nosler designed his partitions. You apparently haven't read my posts, or book chapters, that mention how Partitions definitely do vary depending on caliber/weight. In fact posted one on this subject on this thread, last evening. What in the world made you make such a comment? Did I say they didn't? For someone who seems to say that he knows what people think. You sure don't seem to know what people think!
I prefer classic.
Semper Fi
I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,172 Likes: 18 |
Gee, sorry--but this statement in your post prompted my comment:
"It seems to me that at one time; as the diameter of the bullet increased so did the thickness of the jacket and perhaps the change in the core. That is a 338 bullet would be built “tougher” than a 308 bullet. I don’t think that’s necessarily true now."
Is that not what you meant to type? Or did you mean something completely different?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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