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Jesus was referring to false prophets when He gave that warning. I don't think I've ever heard anyone allude to Paul as a false prophet, esp after how God brought him into the faith. He was in fact the greatest apostle that lived, taught and wrote for our benefit.
You might want to read the last words in Revelation and the Bible how we are instructed not to add to or take away from the word of God.
You are on very dangerous ground. You can believe what you wish. I choose to believe in Jesus. His teachings on salvation are sufficient for me. Are they not for you? As to the warning in Revelation. That concerned the writings in the book of Revelation. The New Testament had not been put together at that time. So by your reasoning the New Testament was an addition to the word of God. Is it not?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Outfitter
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Rejecting Paul is rejecting Jesus. . Wrong
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Rejecting Paul is rejecting Jesus. . Wrong You are.
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Hastings it's simple as this, if you reject parts of the Bible you reject the whole thing. Same as if you break the law in adultery your also guilty of murder, theft, the whole bit. Like stated above your on dangerous ground, please pray about the matter and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth
Romans 5:1
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Campfire Outfitter
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Jesus was referring to false prophets when He gave that warning. I don't think I've ever heard anyone allude to Paul as a false prophet, esp after how God brought him into the faith. He was in fact the greatest apostle that lived, taught and wrote for our benefit.
You might want to read the last words in Revelation and the Bible how we are instructed not to add to or take away from the word of God.
You are on very dangerous ground. You can believe what you wish. I choose to believe in Jesus. His teachings on salvation are sufficient for me. Are they not for you? As to the warning in Revelation. That concerned the writings in the book of Revelation. The New Testament had not been put together at that time. So by your reasoning the New Testament was an addition to the word of God. Is it not? Go ahead ..... Pick and choose while ignoring the rest. The whole Christian world is full of folks who do that but the gate is narrow. Your thesis is downright astounding, lacking all reason. Your signature is ironic .... Jesus: "Take heed that ye be not deceived, for many shall come in my name". I will reply to you no further in this thread.
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Campfire Ranger
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Truths are demonstrable and testable, faith is neither. How are you going to demonstrate and test history? One-off events by definition cannot be replicated and tested. Things happened in the past that are TRUE and we have to assess for ourselves what actually happened and what the implications are for us today; and people will differ in their assessments. In the Declaration of Independence it says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."; do you disagree with that assertion? I guess you do disagree, since the assertion that all men are created equal cannot be demonstrated or tested. No, the truths spoken of were the assertions (beliefs) of the founders, and they were based on their religious, mostly Christian, faith and their assessment of the human condition. Faith, being a belief in something that is un-seen, un-demonstrable, and un-testable is an essential part of human nature. Just because some things can be seen, demonstrated, and tested doesn't mean everything has to be, in order to be true. Man, that’s a good post. Well put and spot on. Thanks for posting it up.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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I do believe there’s plenty of evidence for the historical events in the New Testament, and for the reliability of the New Testament documents themselves. There’s a big difference between presupposing these events and documents are true…as presuppositionalists do…and gathering evidence to find out what really happened and to see if the New Testament documents can be trusted, which is what historians do when they investigate ‘any’ set of historical documents or events.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Truths are demonstrable and testable, faith is neither. How are you going to demonstrate and test history? One-off events by definition cannot be replicated and tested. Things happened in the past that are TRUE and we have to assess for ourselves what actually happened and what the implications are for us today; and people will differ in their assessments. In the Declaration of Independence it says that "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."; do you disagree with that assertion? I guess you do disagree, since the assertion that all men are created equal cannot be demonstrated or tested. No, the truths spoken of were the assertions (beliefs) of the founders, and they were based on their religious, mostly Christian, faith and their assessment of the human condition. Faith, being a belief in something that is un-seen, un-demonstrable, and un-testable is an essential part of human nature. Just because some things can be seen, demonstrated, and tested doesn't mean everything has to be, in order to be true. Man, that’s a good post. Well put and spot on. Thanks for posting it up. Great post!
Illegitimi non carborundum
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![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/sDKjKK1W/20220921-200335.jpg) There is only one God and the names don't matter. Kent That is the Masonic Heresy. Well it's wrong as I said in the very next post... and unless it's encapsulates an entire belief it can't be pigeonholed like that, lots of religions share an exact single thought in the overall belief. Anyway it was a depiction of man's self-importance and the attempt of religion to contain God in their image. Kent
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I mostly like to rely on Jesus' word when I find a dichotomy between him and Paul. It's not either/or, it's both. There are no contradictions. There are only things we fail to grasp. 👊🏻
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Jesus was referring to false prophets when He gave that warning. I don't think I've ever heard anyone allude to Paul as a false prophet, esp after how God brought him into the faith. He was in fact the greatest apostle that lived, taught and wrote for our benefit.
You might want to read the last words in Revelation and the Bible how we are instructed not to add to or take away from the word of God.
You are on very dangerous ground. You can believe what you wish. I choose to believe in Jesus. His teachings on salvation are sufficient for me. Are they not for you? As to the warning in Revelation. That concerned the writings in the book of Revelation. The New Testament had not been put together at that time. So by your reasoning the New Testament was an addition to the word of God. Is it not? Go ahead ..... Pick and choose while ignoring the rest. The whole Christian world is full of folks who do that but the gate is narrow. Your thesis is downright astounding, lacking all reason. Your signature is ironic .... Jesus: "Take heed that ye be not deceived, for many shall come in my name". I will reply to you no further in this thread. I'm sorry you feel that way but I understand. It was painful for me to realize I had been misled by Pauline preachers and teachers. As Jung or some wise person said "there is no coming to consciousness without pain". Take heed that ye be not deceived.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Jesus is the only human that has had 100% physical knowledge and 100% spiritual knowledge, at the same time. His message was a living message. He lived before, he lived during and he lived through what we think is death and ending, he still lives.
When my son died I was told by a theologian... God lost his son to death also... What? no... God got his son back, to a life he had already been living and knew he was going back to. Someone who say's that doesn't even understand the level of unbelief of Christ's life message they just showed.
And these people judge other humans on their personal belief in God in that obvious ignorance.
Kent
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For God so loved the world that he will burn those that dont belive in him for an eternity in Hell...
The US in the last 40 years:
Socialism for big corporations and military industrial complex
&
Rugged individualism for the individual.
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There is only 1 Jesus and that DOES matter. Salvation requires belief that Jesus died and rose from the dead and that he is God himself. Of all the names on that drawing, ONLY Christianity believes that. The rest are false. God gives every single person a chance to choose Jesus. We aren't told how, only that he does. If they don't repent, they're hell bound. All those other religions are keeping them from salvation, not bringing them to it. But what about all those billions that never had the chance to even hear about Jesus? They are just shoved off into the abyss to suffer for eternity? I do not think God will condemn people simply for being born in the wrong century on the wrong continent.....I believe God will judge all people according to their works, and according to the desire of their hearts. Perhaps you reject Apostle Paul's writing. He wrote, "By God's Grace you are saved and that not of yourselves. It is a gift of God. Not by works so no man can boast."
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Campfire Ranger
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The Holy Spirit is our true minister, our communication with God. How do we know what we know about Jesus…? And how do we know who Jesus is…? Some here have clearly stated that “We know nothing about Jesus apart from the Word, as Jesus reveals Himself through the written Word.” I disagree with that assertion wholeheartedly. He doesn’t ‘only’ reveal Himself through the written word. Jesus made it crystal clear that He had many more things to say to His followers, but because of their inability to bear them at the time, He was going to send them the Holy Spirit who would guide them into all the truth. I agree with Kent that the Holy Spirit is a powerful mentor. The commonly accepted doctrine of sola scriptura teaches that the Bible is the the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice. While the HS does help us with understanding the Word of God, He cannot teach anything that contradicts the Word of God. The Bible is the last word for us from God. The Holy Spirit clearly helps us with much more than just “understanding the Word of God.” Some here have mentioned “sola Scriptura” (Scripture alone), and when some Protestants today talk about it, they often make it sound like we have no need for any truths outside of the Bible. That’s unfortunate, and it’s simply not true. I don’t deny sola Scriptura, but I do deny the erroneous definition of that doctrine. Sola Scriptura was cited by the reformers to correct abuses by the Roman Catholic church, and they specifically meant that the Bible was sufficient for the faith and practice of a believer, as opposed to the Scripture ‘plus’ church tradition, ‘plus’ church councils, ‘plus’ the statements of the Pope, etc.. But Sola Scriptura doesn’t deny the role of natural revelation (including reason). Without natural revelation we couldn’t understand the Bible or anything else about reality…! Even Martin Luther realized this; He didn’t dismiss reason, he even said he would only recant if he could be proven wrong by Scripture ‘or’ reason. It’s unfortunate that a tradition has arisen in reformed Christianity that distorts the original meaning of sola Scriptura ~ the very doctrine intended to correct the erroneous traditions that had arisen in the Roman Catholic church. Roman Catholics may nullify the Word of God when they add traditions and such to God’s revelation. But some Protestants are nullifying it when they subtract from God’s revelation. We shouldn’t add Roman Catholic church traditions and such to God’s special revelation, but we also shouldn’t subtract natural revelation either. It’s from God just as much as the Bible is…!
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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The Holy Spirit is our true minister, our communication with God. How do we know what we know about Jesus…? And how do we know who Jesus is…? Some here have clearly stated that “We know nothing about Jesus apart from the Word, as Jesus reveals Himself through the written Word.” I disagree with that assertion wholeheartedly. He doesn’t ‘only’ reveal Himself through the written word. Jesus made it crystal clear that He had many more things to say to His followers, but because of their inability to bear them at the time, He was going to send them the Holy Spirit who would guide them into all the truth. I agree with Kent that the Holy Spirit is a powerful mentor. The commonly accepted doctrine of sola scriptura teaches that the Bible is the the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice. While the HS does help us with understanding the Word of God, He cannot teach anything that contradicts the Word of God. The Bible is the last word for us from God. The Holy Spirit clearly helps us with much more than just “understanding the Word of God.” Some here have mentioned “sola Scriptura” (Scripture alone), and when some Protestants today talk about it, they often make it sound like we have no need for any truths outside of the Bible. That’s unfortunate, and it’s simply not true. I don’t deny sola Scriptura, but I do deny the erroneous definition of that doctrine. Sola Scriptura was cited by the reformers to correct abuses by the Roman Catholic church, and they specifically meant that the Bible was sufficient for the faith and practice of a believer, as opposed to the Scripture ‘plus’ church tradition, ‘plus’ church councils, ‘plus’ the statements of the Pope, etc.. But Sola Scriptura doesn’t deny the role of natural revelation (including reason). Without natural revelation we couldn’t understand the Bible or anything else about reality…! Even Martin Luther realized this; He didn’t dismiss reason, he even said he would only recant if he could be proven wrong by Scripture ‘or’ reason. It’s unfortunate that a tradition has arisen in reformed Christianity that distorts the original meaning of sola Scriptura ~ the very doctrine intended to correct the erroneous traditions that had arisen in the Roman Catholic church. Roman Catholics may nullify the Word of God when they add traditions and such to God’s revelation. But some Protestants are nullifying it when they subtract from God’s revelation. We shouldn’t add Roman Catholic church traditions and such to God’s special revelation, but we also shouldn’t subtract natural revelation either. It’s from God just as much as the Bible is…! What is "natural revelation"?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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…I'll just say that it all boils down to what you are going to do with the resurrection. Are you going to write off the eyewitnesses of that event as liars or lunatics and dismiss it? Or are you going to accept their accounts as the truth, and therefore see that God exists? It has to be one or the other, doesn't it? After that, you can quibble over details of theology all you want, or quibble over Big Bangs, geologic time, evolution and so on. But the resurrection has to be dealt with, one way or the other, some time or another. It was, I believe, the key event in all of history. Dude, I’m with you. Wholeheartedly. The bottom line is that the foundation of Christianity is not a collection of ancient writings we call the Bible. The foundation of Christianity is the reality of God and the historicity of Jesus and the New Testament events ~ the Resurrection of Jesus being paramount. Luke said that “ many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us”…this happened in the lifetimes of those documenting the events…and that his account was just one of those “many”; and it’s one of the four separate and individual accounts of the life of Jesus that survived antiquity. And all four of those separate and individual accounts described the resurrection. Why so “many”…? Why would “many” endeavor to document the life of a Judean day laborer turned rabbi that was later executed by Rome…? Because something extraordinary happened…! So if even one of the gospels or the accounts of Jesus’ life is true, then we likely need to lean in. Are any of these a reliable account of actual events…? Because if any one of these is a reliable account of actual events, then what they say about Jesus is true. And if what they say about Jesus is true, then game on…! Faith on…! And we should press on. We should lean in. For those who are Jesus’ followers, your faith is not in vain. The resurrection is our hope, just as it was clearly Apostle Peter’s hope, as well as the hope of all of Jesus’ earliest followers.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Ranger
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What is "natural revelation"? Knowledge of God that is discovered through natural means…like observation of nature, philosophy, and reasoning…and is plainly available to all of mankind.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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But that is man's/religion's attempt fit God in a box, make him small enough to say we can define... This is closer... ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/HkxpN57h/20220921-200346.jpg) Orrrrr, there may be no god at all. Just left with that butthole looking thing in the middle. There may be no God at all... Interesting that you wrote 'may be' and not 'is', subconsciously you are leaving the door open whether you realize it or not. Kent No it was a deliberate decision to use that wording. Existence of a god is an unfalsifiable proposition. Can’t say either way without proof, yet logical to remain unconvinced due to lack of proof.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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