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Joined: Dec 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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The TDP or technical data package is based on 50 years of building a fighting gun. It’s the bare minimum of what the govt requires and what most consider a good starting point.
Things like 7075 aluminum receivers with a hard coat anodizing on it. 4150 barrel steel and chrome lining. Specific sized gas ports for specific ammo. Carpenter 158 steel with a good heat treat, shot peened, HPT tested and then MPI’d bolts. Specific steel on the gas key and specific bolts to hold it on the carrier. Specific 7075 aluminum RE’s threaded a certain way and castle nuts staked into an end plate that is not too hard nor too soft.
These are just a sampling of what is the makings of a decent AR. But companies cut corners and use 6061 rather than 7075, 4140 vs 4150 barrel steel and nitride vs chrome lining. Gas ports opened up to run cheap lower pressured ammo. Cheap extractors and spring kits, different steels for the bolts and nitride over chrome on the inside of the carrier. Softer screws holding the non chrome lined key. Commercial RE’s loctited instead of staked.
I could go on but surely you get the point. Yes there are better barrels and better triggers, Better furniture and better receivers. But the TDP is the place to start if you want a quality gun. If you want to take chances go ahead but understand why the cheap stuff is cheap. I agree as far as war fighting rifles go. The blueprint/specs to making a functional AR even if out of lower quality materials is well established at this point being one of the most mass produced and tested firearms in world history. For a range or even home defense gun that is kept cleaned and oiled, that is not going through mag dumps or being carried all day in extreme desert or jungle environments, and beat to hell by 18 year olds in a war zone most any will be reliable in my experience. It won’t be as nice or as good but I’d expect it to go bang when pulling the trigger. The difference between military grade and better Vs a cheapie is stacking the deck in your favor when the rifle has been subjected to heavy use and extreme conditions. Not a semi auto kept cleaned and going from safe to range or to engage a bad guy climbing through a window. Yeah, BUT, I can say with experience that if you didn’t keep you GI M16 clean and well lubed, it was far from being a reliable weapon. A rifle could go unfired yet could collect dust/sand from the environment in a place like Iraq and if that wasn’t cleaned and maintained, the rifle could easily malfunction.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Has anyone ever heard of an upper receiver failing in some way because it was made from 6061 instead of 7075?
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,204
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,204 |
Has anyone ever heard of an upper receiver failing in some way because it was made from 6061 instead of 7075? That’s a great question. I would really like to see a torture test -cheap AR vs. Top of the line
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Rost495 had to swage trigger pin holes in 7075 lower, the AMU actually having a tool to do this suggests it wasn’t the first one. I imagine 6061 would fail quicker. KNS pins weren’t created just to be cool.
I’ve seen a Bushmaster RE break at the threads(these are 6061). Never seen a true mil spec 7075 T6 RE break.
Noted; for some folks even a plastic lower would be fine, the M&P 22’s I’ve had took any abuse me and my daughter could give them without issue.
But better materials are better materials, the question was what makes a $1500 AR better than a $500 AR, not can I get by with a cheap AR.
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Joined: Jul 2015
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Can anyone specifically explain or illustrate the differences in parts between high end rifles and let’s say a BCA? Barrels are one thing. But barrels don’t contribute to reliability, do they? Of course they do. The 3 easiest ways to make a barrel cause malfunctions are 1) put a bad chamber on it due to sloppy chambering or worn reamers, 2) put an over or under sized gas port on it or 3) improperly torque the barrel extension.
Politics is War by Other Means
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
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Uh the greatest pistolero to come out of Nevada..
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,260
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
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Uh the greatest pistolero to come out of Nevada.. You guys fu cking crying again? I said I'm not a pistol shooter.. You suck though. ha ha.. Glad you are picking up what I'm laying down though. Keep trying...
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2005
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Uh the greatest pistolero to come out of Nevada.. You guys fu cking crying again? I said I'm not a pistol shooter.. You suck though. ha ha.. Glad you are picking up what I'm laying down though. Keep trying... Yee haw ….. So uh do we call you mr. Earp ?
Last edited by 79S; 09/15/22.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Just say what the drill was.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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I looked at the 40 yard thread and didn’t see anything that fast.
Even when you borrowed your girlfriends carry gun.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Olympic , Vulcan, Hesse, Blackthorn
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Get a good barrel, bolt, and trigger. The rest just holds the important bits together. You are never going to wear out a upper or lower, and only 1/4% of people will ever wear out a barrel or bolt. Being an AR brand snob is like wear designer cloths, it doesn't make any sense.
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid"
John Wayne
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Joined: Jan 2017
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Enjoying the thread anyway..mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,163 |
Get a good barrel, bolt, and trigger. The rest just holds the important bits together. You are never going to wear out a upper or lower, and only 1/4% of people will ever wear out a barrel or bolt. Being an AR brand snob is like wear designer cloths, it doesn't make any sense. You might not have been around in the Hesse/Vulcan/Blackthorn days or you would know some receivers do a better job of holding the important bits together. PWA was another brand that had a lot of issues with pins drilled a little off, enough so that they broke hammers pretty regularly. I'm not saying names will get you a better gun but sometimes names will give you a better chance. Designer clothes? That's kind of an odd analogy but I'll take Carhart over the knock offs every time. Guns are not much different.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Olympic , Vulcan, Hesse, Blackthorn I forgot about Vulcan, HESSA, and blackthorn.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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"Weapons of the Special Forces..."
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Why would anyone really care who makes "the worst" AR? There are more than one & anyone who has even a reasonable clue is going to avoid them. Anyone not knowledgeable of who those are should surely be smart enough to educate themselves before buying one of "the worst" AR's. YMMV MM
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