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Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
A little over 40 years ago we used a .243 Win and 22-250 on mule deer. Erratic results were experienced to say the least. My stepdad at the time always over estimated distance and swore a person could hold dead on a deer out to 400 yards with the .243 and DRT. It was more in the 200-300 yard range, but there were some dramatic results. He preferred the 80g varmint bullets and was not a handloader. I shot a little buck a little bit back and with no blood showing it got away.

Then he was all about shooting deer with the 22-250 and it did a decent job at times. I shot another little buck at 300 yards behind the ear. The bullet hit where I was aiming. Of course, it was DRT. Later I shot a doe at ~100 yards taking off the arteries on top of the heart. She just kept walking like nothing had happened as we watched a blood stain grow on her side and than she just fell over. Shot another doe that might have been too far back that we never recovered. Both lost deer (the one with the .243 and this one) were traveling well and had non-shooters in our party jump ahead of me and spooked them out of the country. My last deer with that cartridge was a doe at 10-20 ft as she ran by me. I hit her in the hip dropping her and then had to finish her off. Obviously a bad shot. But, what was interesting is the bullet dished out a lot of meat exposing the pelvis, but did not break it.

These were all varmint type bullets and obviously not all hit well. What I did notice was more blood from my 30-06 and it had the capability to break bone compared to the varmint bullets we used at the time. I didn't use .22 on deer again until a few years ago when my son started hunting. This was due to reading post by ingwe and others about how effective they were.

Well, shooting the 64g Winchester PP out of an 18" barreled AR my son made 4 (what should have been) killing hits on a large-bodied mule deer buck. Longest shot was a little over 100 yards. The deer came back closer to us after the hit. Then as it stood broadside at less than 100 yards he shot it 3 more times, 2 in the lungs and one that should have been a heart shot but broke the leg and deflected into the ground. Finally blood started coming out of his nose and he fell over. On dressing him out we discovered the first shot hit the liver with little damage and the lung shots pretty much penciled through with little damage, but none exited. I almost gave up on it right there, but taking ingwe's advice I bought some Barnes bullets to try, but then sold the AR to buy something else so haven't tried them yet. The only .22 centerfire I currently have is a .220 Swift with a 14" twist that Barnes says is too slow for the bullets so haven't tried them yet.

LMAO.

Poor shooting and you're blaming Ingwe for saying it works? My kids have taken 5 deer with the .223 Win and 55gr bullets. None requiring a second shot. None closer than 50 yards and only one took a step. It was pouring blood the entire time it was stumbling down the hill.

Chamberings get blamed often for poor bullet selection and placement.

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Yes, with good bullets, the 223 is a killer. Only one I've ever shot a deer or hog with was a 62 grain Barnes. I've killed hogs that were pushing 300#, and it did a number on them. All side shots, not in the ear hole. I liked that bullet in the 223 so much, I went to the 130 Barnes in my 308. I honestly had better blood trails with the 62 in the 223 than the 130 in 308


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Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
A little over 40 years ago we used a .243 Win and 22-250 on mule deer. Erratic results were experienced to say the least. My stepdad at the time always over estimated distance and swore a person could hold dead on a deer out to 400 yards with the .243 and DRT. It was more in the 200-300 yard range, but there were some dramatic results. He preferred the 80g varmint bullets and was not a handloader. I shot a little buck a little bit back and with no blood showing it got away.

Then he was all about shooting deer with the 22-250 and it did a decent job at times. I shot another little buck at 300 yards behind the ear. The bullet hit where I was aiming. Of course, it was DRT. Later I shot a doe at ~100 yards taking off the arteries on top of the heart. She just kept walking like nothing had happened as we watched a blood stain grow on her side and than she just fell over. Shot another doe that might have been too far back that we never recovered. Both lost deer (the one with the .243 and this one) were traveling well and had non-shooters in our party jump ahead of me and spooked them out of the country. My last deer with that cartridge was a doe at 10-20 ft as she ran by me. I hit her in the hip dropping her and then had to finish her off. Obviously a bad shot. But, what was interesting is the bullet dished out a lot of meat exposing the pelvis, but did not break it.

These were all varmint type bullets and obviously not all hit well. What I did notice was more blood from my 30-06 and it had the capability to break bone compared to the varmint bullets we used at the time. I didn't use .22 on deer again until a few years ago when my son started hunting. This was due to reading post by ingwe and others about how effective they were.

Well, shooting the 64g Winchester PP out of an 18" barreled AR my son made 4 (what should have been) killing hits on a large-bodied mule deer buck. Longest shot was a little over 100 yards. The deer came back closer to us after the hit. Then as it stood broadside at less than 100 yards he shot it 3 more times, 2 in the lungs and one that should have been a heart shot but broke the leg and deflected into the ground. Finally blood started coming out of his nose and he fell over. On dressing him out we discovered the first shot hit the liver with little damage and the lung shots pretty much penciled through with little damage, but none exited. I almost gave up on it right there, but taking ingwe's advice I bought some Barnes bullets to try, but then sold the AR to buy something else so haven't tried them yet. The only .22 centerfire I currently have is a .220 Swift with a 14" twist that Barnes says is too slow for the bullets so haven't tried them yet.

LMAO.

Poor shooting and you're blaming Ingwe for saying it works? My kids have taken 5 deer with the .223 Win and 55gr bullets. None requiring a second shot. None closer than 50 yards and only one took a step. It was pouring blood the entire time it was stumbling down the hill.

You may need to re read it. There were bad hits and good hits. None were good results that weren't head shot. I didn't blame ingwe, but took his advice on .22 CF and didn't have good results with the bullets used. All the .22 CF I used were a few decades before I knew of ingwe and as I pointed out all were varmint type bullets. Chances are high it was a poor bullet on my sons deer and again following ingwe's advice and others bought the Barnes, but haven't had the chance to use them yet.

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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
Originally Posted by tzone
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
A little over 40 years ago we used a .243 Win and 22-250 on mule deer. Erratic results were experienced to say the least. My stepdad at the time always over estimated distance and swore a person could hold dead on a deer out to 400 yards with the .243 and DRT. It was more in the 200-300 yard range, but there were some dramatic results. He preferred the 80g varmint bullets and was not a handloader. I shot a little buck a little bit back and with no blood showing it got away.

Then he was all about shooting deer with the 22-250 and it did a decent job at times. I shot another little buck at 300 yards behind the ear. The bullet hit where I was aiming. Of course, it was DRT. Later I shot a doe at ~100 yards taking off the arteries on top of the heart. She just kept walking like nothing had happened as we watched a blood stain grow on her side and than she just fell over. Shot another doe that might have been too far back that we never recovered. Both lost deer (the one with the .243 and this one) were traveling well and had non-shooters in our party jump ahead of me and spooked them out of the country. My last deer with that cartridge was a doe at 10-20 ft as she ran by me. I hit her in the hip dropping her and then had to finish her off. Obviously a bad shot. But, what was interesting is the bullet dished out a lot of meat exposing the pelvis, but did not break it.

These were all varmint type bullets and obviously not all hit well. What I did notice was more blood from my 30-06 and it had the capability to break bone compared to the varmint bullets we used at the time. I didn't use .22 on deer again until a few years ago when my son started hunting. This was due to reading post by ingwe and others about how effective they were.

Well, shooting the 64g Winchester PP out of an 18" barreled AR my son made 4 (what should have been) killing hits on a large-bodied mule deer buck. Longest shot was a little over 100 yards. The deer came back closer to us after the hit. Then as it stood broadside at less than 100 yards he shot it 3 more times, 2 in the lungs and one that should have been a heart shot but broke the leg and deflected into the ground. Finally blood started coming out of his nose and he fell over. On dressing him out we discovered the first shot hit the liver with little damage and the lung shots pretty much penciled through with little damage, but none exited. I almost gave up on it right there, but taking ingwe's advice I bought some Barnes bullets to try, but then sold the AR to buy something else so haven't tried them yet. The only .22 centerfire I currently have is a .220 Swift with a 14" twist that Barnes says is too slow for the bullets so haven't tried them yet.

LMAO.

Poor shooting and you're blaming Ingwe for saying it works? My kids have taken 5 deer with the .223 Win and 55gr bullets. None requiring a second shot. None closer than 50 yards and only one took a step. It was pouring blood the entire time it was stumbling down the hill.

Chamberings get blamed often for poor bullet selection and placement.

Poor bullets I agree and some were poor placement. The bullets were what was available at the time (over 40 years ago.) That still doesn't mean a larger caliber wouldn't have done better, especially on the deer shot in the hip or the one my son shot which was supposed to be a better bullet. The smallest caliber I shoot and my kids shoot currently is the 6.5 Grendel with excellent results. I would like to shoot something with the better .22 bullets, but I don't have a rifle to shoot them yet.

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It doesn't take special modern bullets to kill the shyt out of deer with a .22. I started killing them with the .222 and .223 back in '91. Bullets I used back then were the old 50 and 55 gr. Nosler solid base and the Win. and Horn. 55 gr. soft points. I have an 8 point on the wall from '91 and another from '93 taken with the Noslers, one with the .222 and the other the .223. The '93 buck weighed 172 lbs dressed and one quartering shot through the lungs from 125 yards put him down on the spot. The little Nosler hit near the last rib on the left side and was recovered from the right shoulder.

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As I understand it Nosler Solid Bases were a fairly tough bullet. Were they pretty tough in .22 caliber?

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
As I understand it Nosler Solid Bases were a fairly tough bullet. Were they pretty tough in .22 caliber?
From what I could tell, not terribly. They seemed to expand readily/easily and did a lot of damage to the lungs. The bullets I recovered from the far side of deer were expanded clear down to the base with little and sometimes no lead left in them. About the only .22 cal. bullets I wouldn't shoot deer with from a .223 and expect decent results would be fragile stuff like the V-max, Hornady SX and Speer TNT. Ordinary 55 gr. sp's usually work fine.

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My 223 sits right next to my 06 in the safe. Hard to grab the little gun on the way to Cooperstown camp. I have it sighted in with 52 Barnes and may bring it for a doe and then see what I think. Bad shoulder and all I have a nice light load for the 06 with 4895 and 150 Horns at 2800.

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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by ingwe
These threads crack me up.

LOL, 223 Greenhorn here Sir, that said, and in your honor, i had gun bud find and order me a Ruger American Predator 8 twist 223, i have rings and spare 2.5-8 and 6.5-20 Leupold scopes, 62gr Bearclaws and 64gr Nosler Bonded's at 3100+ fps from the 22" barrel would have to do a real bangup job on deer and pigs this side of 250 yards, i intend to find out this season.

Welp, put the little Ruger 223 on the bags last night before dark, the 62gr TBBC and 64gr Nosler Bonded's run an average of 3076 fps over CFE-223 powder in the LC brass, both bullets shot into a bit less than an inch and a half at 100 for 5 rounds, had 8-10 mph variable winds out of the west, firing dew north, groups settled an inch or so right of center at 1.5" high, will be centered close enough in calm winds, and certainly good enough for 250 yard hunting, smacked the 200 yard steel a couple times, little slugs still packing some pretty descent wallop at that range.

There's a monster black russian sow on the mountain that dearly needs to meet my new rifle.


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That should do just fine Gunner. But you know that.

Shot mine at 200 on Monday. I love that little rifle.

55gr ttsx over 4198.


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by gunner500
Originally Posted by ingwe
These threads crack me up.

LOL, 223 Greenhorn here Sir, that said, and in your honor, i had gun bud find and order me a Ruger American Predator 8 twist 223, i have rings and spare 2.5-8 and 6.5-20 Leupold scopes, 62gr Bearclaws and 64gr Nosler Bonded's at 3100+ fps from the 22" barrel would have to do a real bangup job on deer and pigs this side of 250 yards, i intend to find out this season.

Welp, put the little Ruger 223 on the bags last night before dark, the 62gr TBBC and 64gr Nosler Bonded's run an average of 3076 fps over CFE-223 powder in the LC brass, both bullets shot into a bit less than an inch and a half at 100 for 5 rounds, had 8-10 mph variable winds out of the west, firing dew north, groups settled an inch or so right of center at 1.5" high, will be centered close enough in calm winds, and certainly good enough for 250 yard hunting, smacked the 200 yard steel a couple times, little slugs still packing some pretty descent wallop at that range.

There's a monster black russian sow on the mountain that dearly needs to meet my new rifle.

I think you’ll have fun with it Gunner. I’m not sure you’ll even know it went off though being as you’re so used to other larger pushers.


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I’d like to try some of those TBBCs. I’m not a fan of super hard bullets in the 223 and they look like they open pretty wide.

The TSX is one of my least favorites. They penetrate like dammit but make narrow wounds IME. Best to keep them on bone.

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Originally Posted by TheKid
I’d like to try some of those TBBCs. I’m not a fan of super hard bullets in the 223 and they look like they open pretty wide.

The TSX is one of my least favorites. They penetrate like dammit but make narrow wounds IME. Best to keep them on bone.

I'm on the shoulder with the TTSX out of the .223/.223AI. I keep trying to talk myself into sending one through the lungs but I just haven't done it.

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i just ordered some 70 gr. Hammer Hunter bullets for my grandson`s AR-15 223/556 for deer hunting he is only 10 years old and skinny ,grandson can handle this recoil on a AR-15 and the Hammer bullets should work great for him.


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Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
I'm on the shoulder with the TTSX out of the .223/.223AI. I keep trying to talk myself into sending one through the lungs but I just haven't done it.

FWIW....Seen it a couple times...One took a step and the other ran around in a small circle and fell over. Another was hit chest center and never took a step.


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In my experience, the Barnes really needs speed to wreck lungs well. I shot them in 223AI at 3,300 or so and they worked fine on deer and hogs, although I only shot them inside 150yds or so. Little buzz-saws at that speed. Lung hits were actually okay on blood trails. Not amazing, but fairly okay. I shot a coyote at 200-250yds with the same bullet from an AR carbine and it was not impressive at the lower impact speed. He needed several body hits to go down.

I think the bigger-cased, high-RPM .22 centerfires make the most of the 60-70gr mono bullets, as they have the horsepower to make them perform. Your standard 18-22" .223 bolt gun or AR is better off with a softer bullet if you want to shoot 60-75gr, and if you want to go with a mono, I'd look at a 50-55gr version to keep the speed up. I believe that several posters here on this thread feel the same way.


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I’ve used the 53gr TSX a good bit out of 223s with 16 to 20” barrels. As I stated above, if they didn’t hit bone they weren’t impressive for me. At those speeds the 55gr Hornady SP was much more decisive.

In my opinion and experience, at the speeds attainable in an 18” 223 the 77TMK is the unrivaled king of terminal performance.

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"Is the .223 Remington an adequate cartridge for deer out to a distance of 250 yards?"

I sayl less than a preferred choice IMHO. Can it work? Sure the 223 can work very well Id guess. Never tried the 223 on deer & hope to never do so. Bullet choice & velocity can make a big difference. Ill stick with a 6mm caliber for my minimum choice.


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Originally Posted by TheKid
In my opinion and experience, at the speeds attainable in an 18” 223 the 77TMK is the unrivaled king of terminal performance.

I should have grabbed some of those cannelured blems that were available a while back. The 77TMK really sounds like a winner, if you can find them and don't mind paying for them.


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I scarfed a bunch of them when Larry had the seconds. So far I’ve only found one that was an actual blem and it was broken in half at the cannulure. My only wish is that I bought more when they were available.

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