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Uhh that's what I posted... Kent
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Do you claim to have perfect knowledge of God, Theological perfection.
And am I wrong that Jesus gave us life examples of being saved in faith with no theological knowledge? Which I was referring to.
Kent So you did know the literal definition of the word, yet posted definitions which obscure that with the intention of twisting words to fit your purpose? Read the WHOLE post I made above which started your obtuse and deceptive twisting of the meaning of words. I said that we are all wrong theologically, and that if grace doesn’t cover that there can be no hope for any of us, including me. Jesus WAS/is God so He had/has perfect theology.
Last edited by efw; 10/02/22.
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I've been gone for a week and lost track of this thread. I see that James has been quoted a few times in discussing faith vs works. It's often overlooked that James was written to saved Jews. It wasn't written to tell how to get saved. It was written to tell what do AFTER being saved. The statement that faith without works is dead is telling those already saved that they need to do works for the Lord rather than just sitting on their butts doing nothing. Disciples making disciples
One man with courage makes a majority....
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Ranger
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Do you claim to have perfect knowledge of God, Theological perfection.
And am I wrong that Jesus gave us life examples of being saved in faith with no theological knowledge? Which I was referring to.
Kent So you did know the literal definition of the word, yet posted definitions which obscure that with the intention of twisting words to fit your purpose? Read the WHOLE post I made above which started your obtuse and deceptive twisting of the meaning of words. I said that we are all wrong theologically, and that if grace doesn’t cover that there can be no hope for any of us, including me. Jesus WAS/is God so He had/has perfect theology. So now you are saying what I said, and saying I didn't say what I said, which is what you now say, and since you changed the meaning of what I said, I twisted. I think you are confused. Kent
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Nobody has doctrine right or ever will... not Adam or Moses or David or Paul, you, me or anyone else. If there are 4 billion christians in this world there are 4,000,000,001 different 'doctrines'.
I hate to burst anyone's bubble but in depth study of theology doesn't get you closer to true doctrine than a 4 year old singing 'Jesus loves me this I know'... actually it takes you away.
Theology for self growth is fine if that helps you. But few can keep it there, they have invested so much time and effort, they can't help but defend their 'doctrine' publicly... sway, challenge, debate, judge others by it.
Just find your own place with God, let others find theirs.
Kent You post this as an absolute. Are you absolutely sure you're correct. How could you defend your position? I absolutely wouldn't get in a vehicle with your granddaughter!
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Do you claim to have perfect knowledge of God, Theological perfection.
And am I wrong that Jesus gave us life examples of being saved in faith with no theological knowledge? Which I was referring to.
Kent So you did know the literal definition of the word, yet posted definitions which obscure that with the intention of twisting words to fit your purpose? Read the WHOLE post I made above which started your obtuse and deceptive twisting of the meaning of words. I said that we are all wrong theologically, and that if grace doesn’t cover that there can be no hope for any of us, including me. Jesus WAS/is God so He had/has perfect theology. So now you are saying what I said, and saying I didn't say what I said, which is what you now say, and since you changed the meaning of what I said, I twisted. I think you are confused. Kent No doubt in my mind man
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Ontological arguments for the existence of God are quite interesting. This site has breakdowns of different philosophical approaches for any interested. CUNY link on Ontological Arguments
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I just don't believe Jesus ever said that explicitly and surely not in the synoptic gospels. Who was he referencing when he spoke of his father? Who was he praying to? Who?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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I just don't believe Jesus ever said that explicitly and surely not in the synoptic gospels. Who was he referencing when he spoke of his father? Who was he praying to? Who? JOHN said it.... JESUS alluded to it when he told the Sanhedrin that they would see HIM 'coming on the clouds of heaven' an OT symbol of GOD.............
Last edited by Muffin; 10/02/22.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
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The first 18 verses of the gospel of St. John is considered the prologue to the book is for as I understand. John is quite specific about the deity of Christ and his work and creation, etc. in those verses.
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The first 18 verses of the gospel of St. John is considered the prologue to the book is for as I understand. John is quite specific about the deity of Christ and his work and creation, etc. in those verses. And Paul in his letter to the Philippians CH 2 5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. HE knew who/what HE was, and being 'equal' to GOD was not taking anything HE did not have a right to..... BUT HE humbled HIMself.... HE (my words) set it aside for a time....
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Ontology is only as good as its assumptions and premises. It is evidence, not ontology that proves a proposition.
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Well, who was Jesus speaking of when he spoke of his Father? Who was he praying to? Who was he talking about .
Did not Jesus refer to himself as a prophet in Matthew 13:57?
Would not Jesus saying "the Father and I are one" be akin to when the secretary of state says "I speak for the president"?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Well, who was Jesus speaking of when he spoke of his Father? Who was he praying to? Who was he talking about .
Did not Jesus refer to himself as a prophet in Matthew 13:57?
Would not Jesus saying "the Father and I are one" be akin to when the secretary of state says "I speak for the president"? Speaking for and being the same, are different. Is that what you were getting at? Regards
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Campfire Regular
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I just don't believe Jesus ever said that explicitly and surely not in the synoptic gospels. Who was he referencing when he spoke of his father? Who was he praying to? Who? Matthew 12:2, “For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” That statement showed His deity, as God made the Sabbath, and Jesus stated He was its Lord, greater than the temple. Jesus is God. Mark 2:7, “Why does this man speak so? He blasphemes! Who can forgive sin but God alone? The scribes were correct in that only God can forgive sin. Jesus is God. Mark 2:10, “So you may know that the Son of Man has authority on the earth to forgive sin.” Jesus told the paralytic his sins were forgiven and to get up and walk. Jesus showed He was God by forgiving sins and healing the paralytic. Jesus is God. Mark 2:28, “so the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.” Jesus is God Luke 8:39, Luke inferred Jesus is God. John 4:26, “Jesus said to her, I am, the One who speaks to you.” He told the Samaritan woman He was the Messiah. Pretty obvious… John 5:40, “you don’t want to come to me so you may have life.” Here Jesus confirmed His deity as the source of eternal life. Who could do that but God? Jesus is God. My favorite and probably the best proof, as if any were needed for Jesus: John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” Jesus is God. John 14:7, “If you know me, you also know My Father, and from now, you know Him and have seen Him.” There is only one way to God, through Jesus. John 14:6, “I (Jesus) am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” Pretty obvious unless you are blind…. John 17:5, “and now, you Father, glorify Me with yourself, with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.” God the Son created the universe, John 1:1-3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:1-2. Jesus created and sustains everything/all that exists. Again, one has to be blind, brazen, and arrogant to deny that Jesus was/is God. Holy scripture proves Jesus was/is God. How could Jesus save the world if He weren’t God, John 3:16-18 If you don’t believe in Jesus, you are doomed and condemned. No amount of evidence, even inspired scripture, will ever satisfy those who have stubbornly hardened their hearts to God. BUT, one day, even the deniers will bow to Jesus and with their tongue acknowledge that He is the one true God, Philippians 5:10-11. Better to do it now than later.
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"Lord" doesn't necessarily mean God.
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Well, who was Jesus speaking of when he spoke of his Father? Who was he praying to? Who was he talking about .
Did not Jesus refer to himself as a prophet in Matthew 13:57?
Would not Jesus saying "the Father and I are one" be akin to when the secretary of state says "I speak for the president"?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Posts: 10,304 Likes: 1
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Would not Jesus saying "the Father and I are one" be akin to when the secretary of state says "I speak for the president"? NO! No man can come to the FATHER but by ME. Jesus is the radiance of GODs Glory and the EXACT representation of HIS nature.... HEB 1
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Would not Jesus saying "the Father and I are one" be akin to when the secretary of state says "I speak for the president"? NO! No man can come to the FATHER but by ME. Jesus is the radiance of GODs Glory and the EXACT representation of HIS nature.... HEB 1 Let's stick with only what Jesus said of himself in the synoptic gospels. John differs from them and we don't know who wrote Hebrews and of course Paul never met Jesus unless he met him out in the desert. Out in the desert, which Jesus warned us about. Jesus sure did a lot of talking about his Father and prayed to his Father and often referenced his Father. Think about it.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Would not Jesus saying "the Father and I are one" be akin to when the secretary of state says "I speak for the president"? NO! No man can come to the FATHER but by ME. Jesus is the radiance of GODs Glory and the EXACT representation of HIS nature.... HEB 1 Let's stick with only what Jesus said of himself in the synoptic gospels. John differs from them and we don't know who wrote Hebrews and of course Paul never met Jesus unless he met him out in the desert. Out in the desert, which Jesus warned us about. Jesus sure did a lot of talking about his Father and prayed to his Father and often referenced his Father. Think about it. JESUS, by HIS own admission, did not personally bring us ALL truth.... HE said that task would be accomplished by the Holy Spirit..... SO, you cannot look to ONLY HIS words for '...all things pertaining to life and GODliness...'
Last edited by Muffin; 10/02/22.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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