Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Christianity could possibly become a minority religion in US as early as 2045…

Even though Antlers and I disagree quite a bit on Christianity I do believe he has made a valid point when he has suggested going back to original 1st century Christianity for answers. A time much closer to Jesus' life on earth and less clouded by misconceptions or even lies of whosoever might seek to explain things. I might suggest the sect know as the Ebionites were the first Christians and a good write-up on them can be found if you Google vexen.co.uk ebionites, and find the article 1st Century Ebionites The Original Christians.

The idea of “going back to the early church” isn’t new. It’s been done by many sects of Christianity. An underlying problem with this approach is the innate tendency of humans to idealize a time, era, or people group and assign them and their ways a level of virtue and purity that they never really exemplified. The book of acts and all of the epistles demonstrate the very imperfect state and nature of Christian’s and Christianity from the very beginning of the apostolic era.

I think the original version of Christianity itself…the one that was clearly captivating and clearly resulted in explosive growth…was WAY different than the version of the faith that we see today…the one that clearly drives many people away and is clearly in decline.

I’ve been down that path and seeing others go down that path. I found absolutely nothing new or captivating about trying to re-create something that no one ever seen. Additionally, there is absolutely no way to have a full comprehension whatever things like by reading the Bo of ax. That’s what I mean by the idea of romanticizing. We read those accounts and think that we’re having original thoughts on them but we’re doing nothing more than for Jackson and romanticization. In fact, I think that a lot of white people from Jack’s on the early church ends up being a glorified mysticism. That is when you really dig down to the bottom of what’s happening in an attempt to re-create.

I don't think that Christianity is declining, just the organized "Christian" religions.

Do not conflate a religion with a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Jesus himself despised religion. Organized religion has done more to damage our relationships with God than any other entity.

Ed

The original version of Christianity is ‘still’ the original version of Christianity, despite organized religion’s efforts to “re-create” it through creeds and confessions and catechisms and doctrine, often for its own benefit. The earliest followers of Jesus’, those who were actually there, those who were eyewitness of the events, those who documented those events, those who were responsible for the eventual evangelization of the entire world, they made it crystal clear what the foundation of their faith was. They made it crystal clear what their hope was based on. And it wasn’t theology, and it wasn’t a book.

If I didn’t know better I’d suggest you have the makings of a creed right there!?

Seems to me that no matter what direction you take things you end up with creeds.

Even anti-creeds become creeds.

But that’s not what the studies are showing. They’re not only showing a decline in the ‘organized religion’ of Christianity, they’re also showing a decline in the faith of Christianity itself. These people are clearly saying that they have no religious affiliation at all, not only to a specific church or denomination, but to any specific faith as well. I don’t. Not by a long shot. Well He certainly despised the graceless religion of the Pharisees. And He certainly castigated those who placed their religion above the people for whom the religion was given. I agree that overall, ‘organized religion’ is one of the biggest crocks in the history of crocks.

I see why you are interested in the Ebionites. There are some striking similarities, as they also denied the deity of Jesus and rejected Paul and claimed he was a false apostle. The Ebionites denied the virgin birth and the substitutionary atonement and believed Jesus was the natural son of Mary and Joseph, that Jesus was a mere man adopted by God. As they were vegetarians, they were also opposed to animal sacrifices.

New Testament Christianity is older and more accurate than the heresy of the Ebionite sect. They twisted scripture and altered Christian text to fit their own beliefs and teachings and created their own Jesus stories after the New Testament gospels were written. They even used those same gospels to fit their own narratives and rejected core Christian teachings.

Thankfully, Ebionism didn’t last long and finally fizzled out. Ebionism was as heretical as are some of your “Christian” views.

Ebionites were the original Christianity. They relied on the original book of Matthew which did not have the first two chapters. You are correct in your description of their beliefs, but I believe you may be very wrong on who altered the texts.

Are we to be thankful that the Ebionites were replaced by the Christian/Roman version as the majority?

Why is it that creeds, confessions, catechisms are so demonized.

Would someone who thinks that they are evil break down something like the Apostles Creed and demonstrate where it deviates from Biblical doctrine?

The BullSchmitt pious phrase “No Creed but Christ” is by definition a creed.

The Ebionites revised the book of Matthew and wrote their own gospel. The Biblical gospels are the source of the Ebionite gospel(s). Even the anti-Christian Bart Ehrman said that the Ebionite gospel “represented a kind of harmony of the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke”.

But, the Ebionites altered authoritative scripture and among many alterations, said Jesus became Christ at his baptism, not before, and that Christ stayed a man, not God. They also thought Jesus was not as great as Moses. They believed if anyone could keep the law of Moses as well as Jesus did, then that person could also become a “Christ”. The Ebionites even replaced the word locust to honey cake (referring to what John the Baptist ate in the wilderness), as they were strict vegetarians.

The New Testament gospels were viewed as authoritative scripture when the Ebionites began writing their own gospel. They were a heretical sect that altered the Christian faith to fit their own agenda.

One cannot deny the deity of Jesus and be saved. One has to believe Jesus is God to be saved. It is absolutely essential to the Christian faith.

“If you should confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans 10:9

“For all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Roma s 10:13

The Bible teaches that Jesus is God over and over and over and over. Denying that Jesus is God rejects God’s Word and the essentials of Christianity.

If we deny Jesus before men, He will deny us as well, Matthew 10:32-33, 2 Timothy 2:12

No one wants to hear:
“ I never knew you, depart from me.”
Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:12, Luke 13:27

Well, it is sort of a mindless chant. In Matthew 6:7 Jesus was against chanting.

Catholics and for that matter Methodists can take that repetitious stuff too far. I once worked with a Catholic lady that was going through some emotional distress because of an unplanned pregnancy outside of marriage. She would get in the truck and play a tape of some kind of hail Mary mother of God chant over and over and pull on some beads. I told her it was no wonder so much bad stuff was going on in the world because she was keeping God tied up listening to her.

Oh boy, here we go.

That’s totally different from what I’m talking about. Hail Mary’s are a different thing. Have you read the Apostles Creed?

What is weightiest…?

Being told what to believe by those in authority and power who came later, who weren’t even there with Jesus and most certainly weren’t eyewitnesses to anything that was foundational to Christianity, who collectively decided for us matters of approved doctrine and official beliefs and packaged it up and passed it down to us as orthodoxy, in the form of official creeds and confessions and catechisms…?

Or, being told by those who were actually there with Jesus, who heard Him speak and teach, who saw His miracles, who definitely were eyewitnesses to the events…especially the resurrection…who documented those events, and who were responsible for the eventual evangelization of the entire world, what they placed their hope and faith in…?

Should we put the weight back on what is weightiest…?

Yes. The Word gives us all we need and it sure doesn't include "extras" that came along later, extras to drag us back into the old law, extras to further the political and power control over the people, and extras to further their own existence.

It was/is the existence of these "extras" which have caused the deaths of millions of people in the names of "Christian" religions. It was/is the existence of these "extras" which have perpetuated the separation of us from God, not brought us any closer.


Ed

That is reasonable, but you two are not bringing fair and reasonable discussions....it is disgusting when you say God the Bible represents a bunch of fairy tales, or garbage like that.....

Maybe we should start calling you "twister" and not a bot/troll... because you twist people's words into a vegetable salad of words.... I'll say it again, but this time you should read slowly....you originally said...>>>Theists tend to lack conviction in the existence of any and every version of God (or gods) other than their own. All are atheists with just one version of god removed.<<<

And I replied....>>>Wrong....I believe in God the Bible....if another person only believes in, for example, Spinoza's version.....good for him...I have no qualms with that...<<<

When I stated I have no qualms with that, maybe it would be clearer to you if I added let him/her believe what they want and do not ridicule them.

Yes, I've read it. It is somewhat trinitarian but not explicitly. I do not believe in the holy catholic church, and I am not going to comment on the virgin birth. Anyway I don't have much opinion on it except it was promulgated after the Christian church was off down the wrong road of being an arm of the state and therefore probably some sort of loyalty oath designed to trap "heretics".