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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Antlers, Your views are always worthy of an extra measure of respect. I appreciate your parts in these discussions. I do fail though, at understanding how God can spring from nothing, or be eternal. But the Universe itself can not.
I appreciate the kind words sir. Thank You. On the flip side, do you also fail though, at understanding how intelligent life can spring from nothing, but a divine awareness could not…?
Absolutely, no argument in my mind with your last sentance. I see one just as likely as the other.

I am not one to proclaim that no god can exist.

My proclamation is: No god gives two schitts what happens on or to this planet.

I have no idea what species have come and gone, or perhaps even still exist across the expanse of Universe. Some of them might well seem as gods to us, just as we would appear to be gods to humans of 10,000 years ago.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.

There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story.

Oh, but there are mentions....

Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention.....

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3)

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16)

There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. "


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
[quote=DBT]There it is, Christian tolerance on full display. Make Jesus, the Saviour that you profess to believe in proud, guys. Unable to engage in rational discussion or debate, Men? Adults? Nah, schoolboy level insults are all you have.


Virtually every broad and sweeping comment you and your buddy make are nothing more than your opinions stated as fact …simple opinions….nothing more. Mostly you offer no proof or supporting evidence.

Your statements are therefore “unfalsifiable” as they are simple opinions and you have set yourself up as the “judge” over your own opinions.

Your keyboards are just baloney factories.

You just forge right ahead and demonstrate once again that your keyboard is nothing but a baloney factory.

"Faith is like a piece of blank paper whereon you may write as well one miracle as another." ~ Charles Blount (1654-1693)

The deep meaning behind a blank sheet of paper is related to evidence in that it provides the starting point for the hope in providing truth. When we embark upon a journey of hoping to find the truth, we effectively start with a metaphorical blank sheet of paper. As we continue on with our journey, we write the events of that journey on that sheet of paper, creating a story as we do so…..just like the scriptures of the Apostles of God the Bible, as such, we hope this leads to the truth.


Nothing of the sort. You are imposing your own terms onto the quote, which does not mean what you suggest. It is true that faith i source of hope and consolation, but that's not the point of what Blount said about faith.

Yes, those are my ideas, not Blounts...That is your opinions/ideas, and I have mine.....his own Christianity was founded exclusively on reason, but later denied miracles, attacked religion and other Christian religious ideals....the poor gentleman took his own life in the end.

The quote by Blount expresses a basic fact: that faith allows anything to be believed - however absurd - because no evidence or rigorous inquiry or testing is needed....it is enough to just believe whatever is in a 'holy book' and told by priests and pastors who study it: a collection of works written and compiled by human minds and human hands, expressing what was believed by people centuries past who had no idea of the scope and scale of the universe or our infinitesimal place in it....which was discovered by science, not faith or religion.

No issues with that and as I stated before, Blount in the end of his life denounced anything religious....oh well, such is life, but for what it is worth I still like my idea of the "blank sheet of paper"....but obviously you absolutely will not like my idea....I bet we can agree on that.

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Traditional Darwinian Evolution is almost dead. Those who prescribe to the tenants of that faith are being left above the waterline on the beach. Social constructs based on this antiquated and flawed model are beached at the same water line.

Modern atheists are in the same predicament. They done see or refuse to accept the reality that their hypotheses are about to be destroyed. Again, the subsequent evolutionary hypotheses are soon to be stranded alongside.

The brutal and beautiful reality is that there are secular scientists who are self deprecating and self questioning. These scientists are calling into question all of the tenants of traditional atheism/evolution and destroying the presuppositions and biases.

It’s wonderful to watch as the self proclaimed scientifically mentally masturbating “intelligent” become do do birds.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story.
Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion.

How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof?

Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do?


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Originally Posted by IZH27
Has anyone figured out which of the accounts is a sock puppet?

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Small man in dirty shorts with Cheeto dust on his fingers typing away like a madman in mommy’s basement.

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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.

There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story.

Oh, but there are mentions....

Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention.....

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3)

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16)

There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. "


My statement still remains otherwise uncorrected - you haven't shown otherwise.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by IZH27
Small man in dirty shorts with Cheeto dust on his fingers typing away like a madman in mommy’s basement.

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Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story.
Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion.

How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof?

Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do?

1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator.

2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing.

3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by IZH27
Traditional Darwinian Evolution is almost dead. Those who prescribe to the tenants of that faith are being left above the waterline on the beach. Social constructs based on this antiquated and flawed model are beached at the same water line.

Can you please explain what is supplanting Darwinian Evolution as a progression of natural history?

What occurred on the Earth 66 million years ago?

Where did the dinosaurs go?

Where did the large mammals come from which repopulated the Earth at the beginning of the Paleogene Period?


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My statement was based on scientists who are looking at the Younger Dryas evens around 12k years ago. These aren’t Christian scientists but appear to be secular and evolutionary from what I’m seeing and understanding of them.

They are bringing up very serious and likely correct observations that the Younger Dryas events destroyed a worldwide civilization that was advanced beyond our comprehension.

By default, their assertions, which are compelling in the extreme, undermine the modern and post modern Darwinian hypotheses.

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That is exactly opposite of anything I read of YD.

It seems scholars more typically theorize the ice age following YD triggered famines and pestilence which brought about growth and advancement among the culture.

Just as a biological population yields to extreme pressures and adapts and evolves. So do cultures and societies morph and yield to pressure upon the population.


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Randy Carlson is one of the guys that looks more specifically at the geological impact.

There are other guys that are looking at the megalithic civilizations across the world. They were linked, had lots in common and appear to have all stopped/Disappeared at the same time during those events.

Mainstream archeology will not deviate from their evolutionary based philosophy concerning human origins so they will not tell the story and are guilty of suppressing the guys that are questioning the established paradigm. I understand why but they become something far less than scientific when they suppress honest questioning.

There is sufficient evidence to support highly advanced culture that was global and which existed prior to the YD. If that is the case, and I believe that it is, the understanding of human development and the related time line(s) must come into question.

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We have pyramids in Egypt 5000 years old. Pyramids in Peru 5000 years old. Pyramids in Mexico dating from 1000 to 3000 years ago.

But there is really no meaningful indication of human civilization prior to 6000 years ago. Coincidentally as Genesis has us exiting the Garden.

We have seen much archeology from NA prior to YD. But it has been just as stone age as the later tech we are more familiar with.


I would love to see this evidence of advanced culture 12,000 years ago.


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Or perhaps you are referring to tradecraft, markets, and culture, rather than technology.

This, I am fully on board with.

We know viking traders traveled as far East as Chicago. We know there was much European DNA bred into the Atlantic human population centuries before Lief Ericson or Christopher Columbus.

We know the legends of the Aztec which told of their "white god" expected to return across the sea.

We know that people managed to sail from India to Australia, and fully populate the Islands from Asia to Hawaii.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story.
Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion.

How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof?

Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do?

1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator.

2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing.

3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath.

You are dead wrong, and your assertion unsubstantiated (to apply your own words), because absence of evidence gives zero proof for such an assertion. Deadly inconsistency on your part.

You have absolutely zero knowledge about the knowledge or "clues" held by those writers. More bluffing and fakery on your part.

You completely missed the core meaning of the question. Not surprising - likely you are too busy convincing yourself that your navel is the center of the universe.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
We have pyramids in Egypt 5000 years old. Pyramids in Peru 5000 years old. Pyramids in Mexico dating from 1000 to 3000 years ago.

But there is really no meaningful indication of human civilization prior to 6000 years ago. Coincidentally as Genesis has us exiting the Garden.

We have seen much archeology from NA prior to YD. But it has been just as stone age as the later tech we are more familiar with.


I would love to see this evidence of advanced culture 12,000 years ago.

Look into Gobekli Tepe. I would be curious as to your thoughsts.

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Originally Posted by IZH27
Has anyone figured out which of the accounts is a sock puppet?

Or you could try opening your mind to other possibilities. That would be the better option. Face reality. Logic tells us that given a collection of contradictory beliefs, they can't all be true. Yet each believer assumes that they have the truth and the others must be wrong. That's the problem. Determining the truth is the issue.

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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.

There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story.

Oh, but there are mentions....

Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention.....

“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3)

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16)

There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. "

I also said that what is written in our holy books is not evidence that what is written is true and factual.

As with all of us, the ancients tried to make sense of the world by creating stories about it, how it came about, how it was created, etc.

That doesn't mean they knew, or they had a hotline to their assumed Creator. They are stories, creation myths, morality tales, social identity and cohesion, hierarchies of priests to minister the flock.....

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