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I sure do wish I would have been lucky enough to meet the Late Great St. Bagwell, as I know we would have gotten along,
and I would have learned a lot! The ones who got to meat and deal, and Enjoy his company, and Craftsmanship, along with his,
Knowledge, sure is Lucky in my opinion.


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Originally Posted by APDDSN0864
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
The .45-cal rifle heritage:

[Linked Image]

That's the rifle that the Lyman 457121PH bullet is made for!

It's also the perfect hunting bullet for any .45-70 BPCR. Saint Bagwell turned me onto that bullet cast in 20:1.

Ed
Amen.
Blessed is the Lyman 457121"PH" for BPCR. All hail Saint Bagwell !

Actually the "Ultra-Modern" CVA Paramount & Accura.45-cal muzzleloaders
with 291-grain, AeroTip Power Belt with BC of about 0.333, at 2200 fps MV
could shoot the same bullets as the Pedersoli Mortimer Whitworth.
Just about identical bore, groove and twist.
My druther would be paper-patched in the CVA muzzleloader, maybe with Blackhorn 209 !
The Volunteer or a slick patched up to 0.450"-0.451" diameter, either one has to be soft lead
in order to muzzleload with a ramrod and obturate on firing.
Yep, 20:1 alloy will do with real BP, maybe with Blackhorn 209 too ?

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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McCourry Institute of Ballistics wetpack testing on the 404-gr Shock hammer was done with impact speeds of about 2350 fps and about 2550 fps.
Penetration did not increase in depth with higher velocity,
stayed about 23" for both impact speeds,
just increased the explosive trauma from about 3" to 7" depth along the wound channel.
Petals came off by about 3" depth for both impact velocities.
Here is the lower velocity impact results, per MIB:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Michael McCourry's work.

The sleek copper nose allows high BC for high-velocity delivery at impact, down range.
Then it leaves a wicked-short penetrator with CG forward, still going pretty fast,
not a perfectly square nose, slightly rounded off and slightly widened.
Good enough for live game.
Near 2 feet of MIB wetpack is good enough.
Slow-Mo video of the 404-gr Shock hammer in ballistic gelatin sure would be interesting.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Hey, Sir Jerry, many mercy bo coops again.
May I copy your latest comments to the Hammer Bullets web site or do you want to do it ?
I see that you were not in your pajamas when you shot either one of the warthogs,
just brushing your teeth on the second one.
My bad.


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Thanks Sir Tony, and yes Sir you may Sir Ron, i cant remember my password on the Hammer site, i'm going to try to put together a short vid of all the kill shots for posting here and over at Hammer.

Saint Bagwell's old 45-70 Shiloh Roughrider is zeroed and ready to go hunting this season, a belt of 40 rounds is hanging on the nail in the brick wall behind me, 520gr flat nosed paper patch bullets cast with 16/1 alloy over 75gr KIK 2F are leaving at 1265 fps, soft fouling, excellent accuracy and no US animal will hold one. cool


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What I posted at Hammer:

Sir Jerry, aka gunner500, posted this at 24-hr Campfire where he got wind of the Hammers.
He gave permission to copy it here.
He is now the Professional Shootist for Team .458.
For him, the work is more like play, he would do it for peanuts, but prefers bullets.
He said:

"Hello Sir Ron and all you other Men as well, many Thanks for posting the pics Sir, and Thanks for the compliments everyone, i appreciate it greatly, this trip was a blast, the 404gr Hammer bullet at 2518 fps took no prisoners, unbelievable performance and accuracy.

"Funny stories about the warthogs, the cull was at PH's instruction for camp meat and because it had crooked teeth, he wanted it out of the gene pool, i hit the pig and the PH hollered, now that snaggle bostard had Fok-ol, i think i knew what that meant!

"The other Warthog was hit just outside my hut before breakfast, i was at the sink with toothpaste and brush about to lay down a bead of paste, Wife hollered, come here!!! i thought she saw a scorpion or spider, was going to give it a Courteney stomp, she had been drinking coffee looking out the window and saw the Warthog, i grabbed my rifle and slipped around the front door, circled back to find a nice tree to rest, no range finder, no time to notify the PH's or anyone else in camp, i held for 200 yards and loosed a 404 Hammer, the pig melted, my description above is incorrect, hit him mid rib on his right side, exited neck/shoulder juncture on left side, one camp jack was putting on his pants when the 458 BOOMED, he dropped his glasses and fell in the floor, the 19 year old kid said later, that was a hell of a wakeup call Uncle Jerry, LOL!

"I found the PH's and confessed my sins knowing i most likely broke camp rules, they both said.........IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE ELSE SIR!!!!!..........i'll take that. cool

"All in all it was a great and grand trip, Sir Ron's predictions with this bullet design were/are spot on, he and the Hammer guys have a real winner here, the PH's kept repeating, who in hells hectacre shoots a G.D. four five eight 200 yards and kills all with one shot? i took that as a compliment."


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Congratulations Sir Jerry, and to Ron as well. A very interesting hunt. Excellent shooting and performance of the 404 Shock Hammer.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus

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Originally Posted by gunner500
Hello Sir Ron and all you other Men as well, many Thanks for posting the pics Sir, and Thanks for the compliments everyone, i appreciate it greatly, this trip was a blast, the 404gr Hammer bullet at 2518 fps took no prisoners, unbelievable performance and accuracy.

Funny stories about the warthogs, the cull was at PH's instruction for camp meat and because it had crooked teeth, he wanted it out of the gene pool, i hit the pig and the PH hollered, now that snaggle bostard had Fok-ol, i think i knew what that meant!

The other Warthog was hit just outside my hut before breakfast, i was at the sink with toothpaste and brush about to lay down a bead of paste, Wife hollered, come here!!! i thought she saw a scorpion or spider, was going to give it a Courteney stomp, she had been drinking coffee looking out the window and saw the Warthog, i grabbed my rifle and slipped around the front door, circled back to find a nice tree to rest, no range finder, no time to notify the PH's or anyone else in camp, i held for 200 yards and loosed a 404 Hammer, the pig melted, my description above is incorrect, hit him mid rib on his right side, exited neck/shoulder juncture on left side, one camp jack was putting on his pants when the 458 BOOMED, he dropped his glasses and fell in the floor, the 19 year old kid said later, that was a hell of a wakeup call Uncle Jerry, LOL!

I found the PH's and confessed my sins knowing i most likely broke camp rules, they both said.........IF IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE ELSE SIR!!!!!..........i'll take that. cool

All in all it was a great and grand trip, Sir Ron's predictions with this bullet design were/are spot on, he and the Hammer guys have a real winner here, the PH's kept repeating, who in hells hectacre shoots a G.D. four five eight 200 yards and kills all with one shot? i took that as a compliment.

It was a pleasure having you in camp Jerry!


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Recovered DGS & DGX from Sir Jerry's 500-450 Holland &Holland Royal velocity was 2150 FPS

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Last edited by jwp475; 10/19/22.


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LOL, good stuff Sir Ron, love the humor and Thank You Sir.

Thank You too Sir Bob, it was my pleasure.

TBGH, you bet my Friend, the hunt was a blast, you guys went above and beyond again, we'll see each other again soon, my Wife is still talking about the Safari ; ]


Those bullets are tough customers Sir John.


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Here is that early morning warthog
as detailed by Sir Jerry,
entrance at right ribs
and exit at left neck-shoulder juncture:

[Linked Image]

Entrance wound:

[Linked Image]

Exit wound behind left ear in this view:

[Linked Image]

Lessee now, if MV was 2518 fps for the 404-gr/.458 Shock Hammer with BC said to be 0.419
and rifle was zeroed for 200-yards, and warthog was at 174 yards ...
impact velocity and trajectory ordinate, and remaining KE are pending a ballistic calculator tool ...


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Man, oh, man this bullet has it all, zeroed for DG at 25 yards,
and back on zero at 200 yards.
Point and shoot warthogs to 250 yards.

404-gr Shock Hammer from 24" barrel of .458 WM+
2518 fps, as per Sir Jerry:

BC = .419
1.5" sight height

Max ordinate = 2.56" at 113 yards
Launch angle = 0*06'18"
Point Blank Range = 250 yards
Zeroed at 200 yards (199.8 yards)

0 yards: -1.5" 2518 fps KE 5687 ft-lbs
25 yds: +0.05" 2466 fps KE 5456 ft-lbs
50 yds: +1.24" 2415 fps KE 5232 ft-lbs
75 yds: +2.06" 2365 fps KE 5015 ft-lbs

100 yds: +2.49" 2315 fps KE 4806 ft-lbs
150 yds: +2.13" 2217 fps KE 4408 ft-lbs
200 yds: -0.01" 2121 fps KE 4037 ft-lbs
250 yds: -4.08" 2029 fps KE 3691 ft-lbs
300 yds: -10.26" 1938 fps KE 3370 ft-lbs
350 yds: -18.76" 1850 fps KE 3071 ft-lbs
400 yds: -29.79" 1765 fps KE 2794 ft-lbs

Supersonic to about 900 yards.

The 400-gr CEB brass FN solid with same powder charge shoots only a few fps faster at the muzzle,
and lands at 50 yards within a fraction of an inch from the 404-gr Shock Hammer.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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That setup looks really good. What powder is Sir Jerry using, if I may ask?

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Originally Posted by SLGPT
That setup looks really good. What powder is Sir Jerry using, if I may ask?

I believe that Sir Jerry is using 2460, I am using 2230 you the same results



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that sounded like a great trip, going to SA this next April for Kudu, Warthog,Zebra Blue Wildebeest and a cow Cape buff, just received my first 404 Shock Hammers this past Monday and loaded them up at 80 gr of AA2230 for length 3.377 (if I remember correctly) velocity was 2446 at 13 feet should be I think about 2460fps sighted in 1 inch high at 50 yards. I wanted to take these out to 200 and 300 yards but off the bench was starting to get a head ache so will wait till next week. talked with Steve at Hammer the other day and kind of looks like they will not be making a 400 solid at this time. so congrats on the safari and nice write up. Sir James

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The 404 Hammer is pure bad-azz for 458's. Very decent bc and outstanding bullet performance.

The 400 grain CEB Safari looks like a fine bullet. Hmm, even those 2ea Opps-bullets look good! Nice big ol meplat.

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Sir Larry,
Heh-heh, the two boo-boo bullets in the batch of CEB FNs was explained by Sam at B&M.
The stub ends of the brass rods.
I am eternally grateful to Doc M for getting CEB to make that 400-gr brass FN bullet.
What a job !,
Rushed through so fast that a couple of bullet stubs were not sorted out, in the sorting, heh-heh.
Machining was great: 400.08 grains mean for 10 bullets, all within 399.8 to 400.2 grains.
That much variation could come from the metallurgy, eh ?

Will load some more .458 B&M+ loads with those, fully interchangeable with .458 WM+ loads,
as long as COL is 0.260" difference.

[Linked Image]

400-gr FN:
2.990" COL in the .458 B&M+ for magazine feeding = 3.250" COL in the .458 WM+
404-gr SH:
3.220" COL in the .458 B&M+ for single loading = 3.480" COL in the .458 WM+

So here is data for the .458 B&M+ with 16.875" barrel, using TAC, that can be used in the .458 WM+:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

So, I am going to see if the short-barreled .458 B&M+ can get to 2300 fps with the 400-gr FN
which might be close to 2500 fps in the 24"-barreled .458 WM+, even if it takes 3.350" COL to get there, heh-heh.
I am still waiting for that Pac-Nor 1:10" twist barrel to turn into a 20" to 24" .458 WM+ Mauser, New Fugly.
No, I have not gone totally off the deep end on the short-barrels,
still waffling.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Looking good!


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Sir Ron,
Educational as to Sam's explanation.

Shorter barrels in the .375 & 458's, I am a fan. But, the 20-22" are my comfort lengths so far. So, I am at the moderate shortness level. I do like the compactness of the pistol cartridge lever guns in 16-1/4" lengths.

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Hooray !
Pac-Nor shipped my barrel yesterday.
Ought to be here by Halloween
to become a .458 WM+ on an FN Mauser action.
Same rifling as on the .458 B&M+,
but is a no. 5 sporter instead of no. 4 sporter.
That will provide another comparison of
short barrel to longer barrel for velocity.
This assumes the .458 B&M+ with 3.000" COL
is equivalent to the .458 WM+ with 3.260" COL,
etc.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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