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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Oh, but there are mentions.... Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention..... “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3) “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16) There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. " My statement still remains otherwise uncorrected - you haven't shown otherwise. I haven't shown otherwise? You state above "There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe"... I just quoted scriptures. Genesis is the description of creation and it fails miserably. Your cherry picked clause does nothing to descibe the universe, it lays blanket claim to everything - how childish. Of course, childish to you, an atheist...the thrust of the Cosmological Argument for the existence of God,....the Universe (i.e., the cosmos) is here, and a Cause is needed. Hawking (you've heard of this scientist) tacitly acknowledges that a Creator is needed in the equation if there is not an adequate explanation for the Universe without Him....but in the end, Hawking’s assertions, like yours, are just that—assertions....and a good description of the universe is...the Universe consists of celestial bodies like the stars, planets, galaxy, dust and gases. The Universe is a large space that contains everything, i.e., all matter and energy from the smallest particles to the largest particles. Everything found in space belongs to the Universe. God is a pacifier solution for those impatient and really wanting an answer, irrespective of what the truth may be, and in many cases despite what the truth is. The threat of hell is part of the sales pitch for those sitting on the fence - I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. I'm not impatient for the answer...people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love...In the Kingdom of God there can be no fence sitters, as Christians, we must wholeheartedly give ourselves to God in Christ Jesus and not look back. If we remain fence sitters, we will most likely be spewed out.... Pascal's Wager: Belief in God is the rational choice, due to the consequences of being wrong....I think that Pascal is saying that it would be prudent to have a belief in God because of the consequences of not believing.....but this is an important part for Christians, one must continue to pray, ask for forgiveness, and always do the right thing… But I don't believe that it can stop there. One must become mature in their faith and have definitive reasons for it that are based on the truth and not just pragmatism, because as stated before, God can see what is truly in the heart..... You may be correct about Pascal being a fence sitter...I just do not know.
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Much of the discussion that has been a significant part of so many of these types of threads pertains to evidence: and I see in the evidence…science, nature, reason and logic, and history…that God exists, and that He acted in history. And that the Word (God the Son) actually became flesh and lived among people in the early first century, and those He lived among reliably documented it for the rest of us. And that Jesus actually rose from the dead, and that the New Testament documents are reliable accounts of what actually happened. Absolutely...that is our belief, as there is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen.
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion. How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof? Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do? Where in the hello is the LIKE button?
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Oh, but there are mentions.... Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention..... “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3) “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16) There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. " My statement still remains otherwise uncorrected - you haven't shown otherwise. I haven't shown otherwise? You state above "There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe"... I just quoted scriptures. Genesis is the description of creation and it fails miserably. Your cherry picked clause does nothing to descibe the universe, it lays blanket claim to everything - how childish. Of course, childish to you, an atheist...the thrust of the Cosmological Argument for the existence of God,....the Universe (i.e., the cosmos) is here, and a Cause is needed. Hawking (you've heard of this scientist) tacitly acknowledges that a Creator is needed in the equation if there is not an adequate explanation for the Universe without Him....but in the end, Hawking’s assertions, like yours, are just that—assertions....and a good description of the universe is...the Universe consists of celestial bodies like the stars, planets, galaxy, dust and gases. The Universe is a large space that contains everything, i.e., all matter and energy from the smallest particles to the largest particles. Everything found in space belongs to the Universe. God is a pacifier solution for those impatient and really wanting an answer, irrespective of what the truth may be, and in many cases despite what the truth is. The threat of hell is part of the sales pitch for those sitting on the fence - I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. I'm not impatient for the answer...people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love...In the Kingdom of God there can be no fence sitters, as Christians, we must wholeheartedly give ourselves to God in Christ Jesus and not look back. If we remain fence sitters, we will most likely be spewed out.... Pascal's Wager: Belief in God is the rational choice, due to the consequences of being wrong....I think that Pascal is saying that it would be prudent to have a belief in God because of the consequences of not believing.....but this is an important part for Christians, one must continue to pray, ask for forgiveness, and always do the right thing… But I don't believe that it can stop there. One must become mature in their faith and have definitive reasons for it that are based on the truth and not just pragmatism, because as stated before, God can see what is truly in the heart..... You may be correct about Pascal being a fence sitter...I just do not know. Belief in God is the rational choice, due to the consequences of being wrong That's the propaganda that they are running. So you admit to being scared of hell. The hell courtesy of a loving god as a consequence for a minor transgression that you had no responsibility for yet are paying the price for. Whatever happened to free will? Your god set you up.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion. How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof? Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do? 1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator. 2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing. 3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath. A fine typical atheistic answer true to your opinions...atheists do not believe, Christians do believe, as there is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen.
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion. How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof? Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do? 1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator. 2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing. 3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath. A fine typical atheistic answer true to your opinions...atheists do not believe, Christians do believe, as there is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen. Except atheists have no reason to believe, and there's no evidence of a god anywhere.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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[quote=mauserand9mm]Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Oh, but there are mentions.... Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention..... “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3) “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16) There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. " My statement still remains otherwise uncorrected - you haven't shown otherwise. I haven't shown otherwise? You state above "There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe"... I just quoted scriptures. Genesis is the description of creation and it fails miserably. Your cherry picked clause does nothing to descibe the universe, it lays blanket claim to everything - how childish. Of course, childish to you, an atheist...the thrust of the Cosmological Argument for the existence of God,....the Universe (i.e., the cosmos) is here, and a Cause is needed. Hawking (you've heard of this scientist) tacitly acknowledges that a Creator is needed in the equation if there is not an adequate explanation for the Universe without Him....but in the end, Hawking’s assertions, like yours, are just that—assertions....and a good description of the universe is...the Universe consists of celestial bodies like the stars, planets, galaxy, dust and gases. The Universe is a large space that contains everything, i.e., all matter and energy from the smallest particles to the largest particles. Everything found in space belongs to the Universe. God is a pacifier solution for those impatient and really wanting an answer, irrespective of what the truth may be, and in many cases despite what the truth is. The threat of hell is part of the sales pitch for those sitting on the fence - I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. I'm not impatient for the answer...people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love...In the Kingdom of God there can be no fence sitters, as Christians, we must wholeheartedly give ourselves to God in Christ Jesus and not look back. If we remain fence sitters, we will most likely be spewed out.... Pascal's Wager: Belief in God is the rational choice, due to the consequences of being wrong....I think that Pascal is saying that it would be prudent to have a belief in God because of the consequences of not believing.....but this is an important part for Christians, one must continue to pray, ask for forgiveness, and always do the right thing… But I don't believe that it can stop there. One must become mature in their faith and have definitive reasons for it that are based on the truth and not just pragmatism, because as stated before, God can see what is truly in the heart..... You may be correct about Pascal being a fence sitter...I just do not know. That's the propaganda that they are running.
So you admit to being scared of hell. The hell courtesy of a loving god as a consequence for a minor transgression that you had no responsibility for yet are paying the price for. Whatever happened to free will? Your god set you up. Propaganda, sure my atheist friend....admit to being scared of hell??? How do you get me being scared of hell out of me saying, "people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love." What is the term you use....oh yea, bafflegab.....
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion. How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof? Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do? 1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator. 2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing. 3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath. A fine typical atheistic answer true to your opinions...atheists do not believe, Christians do believe, as there is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen. Except atheists have no reason to believe, and there's no evidence of a god anywhere. We discussed this before....There is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen.....BUT, and this is a really big BUTT....there is no MAUSER PROOF.
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[quote=Raspy]
Oh, but there are mentions....
Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention.....
“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3)
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16)
There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. " My statement still remains otherwise uncorrected - you haven't shown otherwise. I haven't shown otherwise? You state above "There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe"... I just quoted scriptures. Genesis is the description of creation and it fails miserably. Your cherry picked clause does nothing to descibe the universe, it lays blanket claim to everything - how childish. Of course, childish to you, an atheist...the thrust of the Cosmological Argument for the existence of God,....the Universe (i.e., the cosmos) is here, and a Cause is needed. Hawking (you've heard of this scientist) tacitly acknowledges that a Creator is needed in the equation if there is not an adequate explanation for the Universe without Him....but in the end, Hawking’s assertions, like yours, are just that—assertions....and a good description of the universe is...the Universe consists of celestial bodies like the stars, planets, galaxy, dust and gases. The Universe is a large space that contains everything, i.e., all matter and energy from the smallest particles to the largest particles. Everything found in space belongs to the Universe. God is a pacifier solution for those impatient and really wanting an answer, irrespective of what the truth may be, and in many cases despite what the truth is. The threat of hell is part of the sales pitch for those sitting on the fence - I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. I'm not impatient for the answer...people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love...In the Kingdom of God there can be no fence sitters, as Christians, we must wholeheartedly give ourselves to God in Christ Jesus and not look back. If we remain fence sitters, we will most likely be spewed out.... Pascal's Wager: Belief in God is the rational choice, due to the consequences of being wrong....I think that Pascal is saying that it would be prudent to have a belief in God because of the consequences of not believing.....but this is an important part for Christians, one must continue to pray, ask for forgiveness, and always do the right thing… But I don't believe that it can stop there. One must become mature in their faith and have definitive reasons for it that are based on the truth and not just pragmatism, because as stated before, God can see what is truly in the heart..... You may be correct about Pascal being a fence sitter...I just do not know. That's the propaganda that they are running.
So you admit to being scared of hell. The hell courtesy of a loving god as a consequence for a minor transgression that you had no responsibility for yet are paying the price for. Whatever happened to free will? Your god set you up. Propaganda, sure my atheist friend....admit to being scared of hell??? How do you get me being scared of hell out of me saying, "people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love." What is the term you use....oh yea, bafflegab..... You are the one who raised Pascals wager into the topic - it's based on the idea of hell avoidance, not the love of a god. Quite the opposite I would say.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Pascal's theology of fear: believe this or suffer the consequences.
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I think that gathering and showing evidence for the historicity of the New Testament events and documents…as opposed to just presupposing the truth of em’ as the presuppositionalists do…is a much better approach, especially in the post-Christian culture that we live in nowadays. Gathering evidence to find out what really happened, and to see if the New Testament documents can be trusted, is what historians do when they investigate ‘any’ set of historical documents or events. I think that showing that it’s true is better than just presupposing that it’s true.
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion. How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof? Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do? 1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator. 2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing. 3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath. A fine typical atheistic answer true to your opinions...atheists do not believe, Christians do believe, as there is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen. Except atheists have no reason to believe, and there's no evidence of a god anywhere. We discussed this before....There is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen.....BUT, and this is a really big BUTT....there is no MAUSER PROOF. We discussed this before....evidence shows the truth of a proposition. Faith doesn't use evidence otherwise it would be called fact, not faith.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]
Oh, but there are mentions....
Judaeo-Christian scripture has never hesitated to mention.....
“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3)
“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:16)
There seem to be two options here: Either nothing caused the known universe to exist, or something cause the known universe to exist....but just like DBT said, "The fact is, there being no conclusions, we don't know. " My statement still remains otherwise uncorrected - you haven't shown otherwise. I haven't shown otherwise? You state above "There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe"... I just quoted scriptures. Genesis is the description of creation and it fails miserably. Your cherry picked clause does nothing to descibe the universe, it lays blanket claim to everything - how childish. Of course, childish to you, an atheist...the thrust of the Cosmological Argument for the existence of God,....the Universe (i.e., the cosmos) is here, and a Cause is needed. Hawking (you've heard of this scientist) tacitly acknowledges that a Creator is needed in the equation if there is not an adequate explanation for the Universe without Him....but in the end, Hawking’s assertions, like yours, are just that—assertions....and a good description of the universe is...the Universe consists of celestial bodies like the stars, planets, galaxy, dust and gases. The Universe is a large space that contains everything, i.e., all matter and energy from the smallest particles to the largest particles. Everything found in space belongs to the Universe. God is a pacifier solution for those impatient and really wanting an answer, irrespective of what the truth may be, and in many cases despite what the truth is. The threat of hell is part of the sales pitch for those sitting on the fence - I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. I'm not impatient for the answer...people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love...In the Kingdom of God there can be no fence sitters, as Christians, we must wholeheartedly give ourselves to God in Christ Jesus and not look back. If we remain fence sitters, we will most likely be spewed out.... Pascal's Wager: Belief in God is the rational choice, due to the consequences of being wrong....I think that Pascal is saying that it would be prudent to have a belief in God because of the consequences of not believing.....but this is an important part for Christians, one must continue to pray, ask for forgiveness, and always do the right thing… But I don't believe that it can stop there. One must become mature in their faith and have definitive reasons for it that are based on the truth and not just pragmatism, because as stated before, God can see what is truly in the heart..... You may be correct about Pascal being a fence sitter...I just do not know. That's the propaganda that they are running.
So you admit to being scared of hell. The hell courtesy of a loving god as a consequence for a minor transgression that you had no responsibility for yet are paying the price for. Whatever happened to free will? Your god set you up. Propaganda, sure my atheist friend....admit to being scared of hell??? How do you get me being scared of hell out of me saying, "people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love." What is the term you use....oh yea, bafflegab..... You are the one who raised Pascals wager into the topic - it's based on hell avoidance, not the love of a god, but quite the opposite. I swear, your memory, you brought it up.... I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. Yes, Pascal theory is based on hell avoidance, and also I believe the love of God.....I believe hell is a purgatory of sorts that cleanses people of their sins before they go to heaven.
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion. How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof? Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do? 1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator. 2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing. 3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath. A fine typical atheistic answer true to your opinions...atheists do not believe, Christians do believe, as there is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen. Except atheists have no reason to believe, and there's no evidence of a god anywhere. We discussed this before....There is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen.....BUT, and this is a really big BUTT....there is no MAUSER PROOF. We discussed this before....evidence shows the truth of a proposition. Faith doesn't use evidence otherwise it would be called fact, not faith. Evidence shows POSSIBLE truth of a proposition, as I always stated...GEEESCH MAUSER, I stated (before) that I believe something that I do not know to be MAUSER PROOF many times to you...but there is much evidence in God the Bible. Again, all the evidence leads to the hope and promise for the things in God the Bible to be true and is called Christian Faith.
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[quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm]
My statement still remains otherwise uncorrected - you haven't shown otherwise. I haven't shown otherwise? You state above "There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe"... I just quoted scriptures. Genesis is the description of creation and it fails miserably. Your cherry picked clause does nothing to descibe the universe, it lays blanket claim to everything - how childish. Of course, childish to you, an atheist...the thrust of the Cosmological Argument for the existence of God,....the Universe (i.e., the cosmos) is here, and a Cause is needed. Hawking (you've heard of this scientist) tacitly acknowledges that a Creator is needed in the equation if there is not an adequate explanation for the Universe without Him....but in the end, Hawking’s assertions, like yours, are just that—assertions....and a good description of the universe is...the Universe consists of celestial bodies like the stars, planets, galaxy, dust and gases. The Universe is a large space that contains everything, i.e., all matter and energy from the smallest particles to the largest particles. Everything found in space belongs to the Universe. God is a pacifier solution for those impatient and really wanting an answer, irrespective of what the truth may be, and in many cases despite what the truth is. The threat of hell is part of the sales pitch for those sitting on the fence - I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. I'm not impatient for the answer...people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love...In the Kingdom of God there can be no fence sitters, as Christians, we must wholeheartedly give ourselves to God in Christ Jesus and not look back. If we remain fence sitters, we will most likely be spewed out.... Pascal's Wager: Belief in God is the rational choice, due to the consequences of being wrong....I think that Pascal is saying that it would be prudent to have a belief in God because of the consequences of not believing.....but this is an important part for Christians, one must continue to pray, ask for forgiveness, and always do the right thing… But I don't believe that it can stop there. One must become mature in their faith and have definitive reasons for it that are based on the truth and not just pragmatism, because as stated before, God can see what is truly in the heart..... You may be correct about Pascal being a fence sitter...I just do not know. That's the propaganda that they are running.
So you admit to being scared of hell. The hell courtesy of a loving god as a consequence for a minor transgression that you had no responsibility for yet are paying the price for. Whatever happened to free will? Your god set you up. Propaganda, sure my atheist friend....admit to being scared of hell??? How do you get me being scared of hell out of me saying, "people don’t need a threat of Hell to be reconciled to God; they need to taste his infinite love." What is the term you use....oh yea, bafflegab..... You are the one who raised Pascals wager into the topic - it's based on hell avoidance, not the love of a god, but quite the opposite. I swear, your memory, you brought it up.... I think Pascal was one of the fence sitters in a neighbourhood of Christians. Yes, Pascal theory is based on hell avoidance, and also I believe the love of God.....I believe hell is a purgatory of sorts that cleanses people of their sins before they go to heaven. You brought up Pascals wager a long time ago, long before Whitetail48 got angry at you for communicating with the atheists. If you only rely on the love of a god, why even bother considering Pascals wager? You not sure or something? A bit weak in the conviction maybe?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Pascal's theology of fear: believe this or suffer the consequences. yes, that is part of it... I'm hitting the sack....
Last edited by Raspy; 10/23/22. Reason: spelling
Illegitimi non carborundum
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Calling the cosmos, or universe, a creation is an unsubstantiated assertion.
There's nothing in religious documents that even come close to describing the universe because those writers had no idea. You'd think a god would want to mention that to somebody - might've added more clout to the story. Stating that the creation of the universe is an unsubstantiated assertion - - is itself an unsubstantiated assertion. How would a rational person go about proving that "those writers had no idea". Would someone please post that proof? Who has the actual capability to assume or think what God would want to do? 1. Wrong. We have no evidence of creation or a creator. 2. The accounts in Genesis are demonstrably factually wrong. Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, they either had no idea, otherwise they knew and were lieing. 3. Anybody, it's a free for all, until a god comes forward for clarification. Don't hold your breath. A fine typical atheistic answer true to your opinions...atheists do not believe, Christians do believe, as there is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen. Except atheists have no reason to believe, and there's no evidence of a god anywhere. We discussed this before....There is much evidence in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the hope for things promised and unseen.....BUT, and this is a really big BUTT....there is no MAUSER PROOF. We discussed this before....evidence shows the truth of a proposition. Faith doesn't use evidence otherwise it would be called fact, not faith. Evidence shows POSSIBLE truth of a proposition, as I always stated...GEEESCH MAUSER, I stated (before) that I believe something that I do not know to be MAUSER PROOF many times to you...but there is much evidence in God the Bible. Again, all the evidence leads to the hope and promise for the things in God the Bible to be true and is called Christian Faith. We discussed this before....you misunderstand the word. You probably mean to use "exhibits" or "observations". It becomes evidence once the proposition has been proven true ie evidence supports the truth. Your evidence is evidence of something but until it is linked to a fact, it's just an observation.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Yes, Pascal theory is based on hell avoidance, and also I believe the love of God.....I believe hell is a purgatory of sorts that cleanses people of their sins before they go to heaven. There are verses that say otherwise. Even assuming that you are right, being thrown into hell for length of time over a minor issue like a lack of conviction when there is no justification - which is perfectly reasonable - is hardly going to endear those who are suffering to the one who put them there. Believe or suffer the consequences is a rule that a tyrant might impose, not a God of love.
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- - - - Believe or suffer the consequences is a rule that a tyrant might impose, not a God of love. This is ideological magic - or simply phony talk designed to attack - from an avowed atheist posing as an expert on what God would do - while he states that there is no God. Incredibility.
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- - - - Believe or suffer the consequences is a rule that a tyrant might impose, not a God of love. This is ideological magic - or simply phony talk designed to attack - from an avowed atheist posing as an expert on what God would do - while he states that there is no God. Incredibility. Nope, basic logic is not an attack. What do you think Pascals Wager entails? The point of the wager is salvation through belief. If believing in God is not a factor, it would make no difference whether you believe or not, so there is no need for Pascals Wager or believing in God in order to be saved. That the Wager assumes that believing in God is a necessary condition for salvation says something about the nature of the entity who would impose such a condition. Think about it.
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