|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2 |
Back in the day, 200 yards was a chip shot. 600 to maybe 650 was a good probable. That was 35 - 40 years ago. These days maybe 150 unless it's running. Things change. Life goes on. Without a scope? Wouldn't your front sight completely block out a deer at 600yds? Not if you sighted in using a 6 O'clock hold. Bingo! It's the way I was taught, and all disciplines I'm aware of teach now. When sighting in I place the shot group at the bottom of the bullseye not the center so the bullet strikes an animal right at where the top of the front sight indicates. Center bullseye hits are only useful when shooting scores in competition. Why would one willingly blot out his target with a front sight bead? 600 yard shots at deer, with iron sights? Huh uh. Nope. No way. Way too much room for error, with a huge chance of missing or wounding the animal - unethical in the extreme IMO. Factoring in wind and atmospheric conditions is tough enough with a good scope let alone iron sights, even if the gun was carefully zero'ed in at that distance. As always, a hunter's hind legs are the best substitute for long range schidt shots - get closer and make a clean kill or make it a "one that got away" story.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,059
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,059 |
The 6 hold was an asbolute game changer for me, and I came into it relatively late. I had always struggled shooting irons much beyond 30-40 yards when I was younger because I always obscured the target with the post like a dunce. I was 30, maybe 32-ish before I saw the light 😬 My Dad had always been a scope guy, so most stuff I'd shot growing up was scoped and sights were just a sort of minor secondary consideration or inconvenience.
Once I tried 6 o clock zero, it was a whole new world, and I strongly prefer sights to optics now. Of all my rifles, only 2 have optics, and one is a recent acquisition that wasn't available with sights. Now that I know it shoots, I'm probably going to end up getting a front ramp on it and pitch the scope sooner or later.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,227 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,227 Likes: 1 |
Back in the day, 200 yards was a chip shot. 600 to maybe 650 was a good probable. That was 35 - 40 years ago. These days maybe 150 unless it's running. Things change. Life goes on. Without a scope? Wouldn't your front sight completely block out a deer at 600yds? Not if you sighted in using a 6 O'clock hold. Bingo! It's the way I was taught, and all disciplines I'm aware of teach now. When sighting in I place the shot group at the bottom of the bullseye not the center so the bullet strikes an animal right at where the top of the front sight indicates. Center bullseye hits are only useful when shooting scores in competition. Why would one willingly blot out his target with a front sight bead? 600 yard shots at deer, with iron sights? Huh uh. Nope. No way. Way too much room for error, with a huge chance of missing or wounding the animal - unethical in the extreme IMO. Factoring in wind and atmospheric conditions is tough enough with a good scope let alone iron sights, even if the gun was carefully zero'ed in at that distance. As always, a hunter's hind legs are the best substitute for long range schidt shots - get closer and make a clean kill or make it a "one that got away" story. Interesting, thanks
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,792
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,792 |
6 o'clock hold = pumpkin on a fence post. Good way to go for iron's
For those without thumbs, it's s Garden fookin Island, not Hawaii
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,227 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,227 Likes: 1 |
Back in the day, 200 yards was a chip shot. 600 to maybe 650 was a good probable. That was 35 - 40 years ago. These days maybe 150 unless it's running. Things change. Life goes on. Without a scope? Wouldn't your front sight completely block out a deer at 600yds? Not if you sighted in using a 6 O'clock hold. Bingo! It's the way I was taught, and all disciplines I'm aware of teach now. When sighting in I place the shot group at the bottom of the bullseye not the center so the bullet strikes an animal right at where the top of the front sight indicates. Center bullseye hits are only useful when shooting scores in competition. Why would one willingly blot out his target with a front sight bead? 600 yard shots at deer, with iron sights? Huh uh. Nope. No way. Way too much room for error, with a huge chance of missing or wounding the animal - unethical in the extreme IMO. Factoring in wind and atmospheric conditions is tough enough with a good scope let alone iron sights, even if the gun was carefully zero'ed in at that distance. As always, a hunter's hind legs are the best substitute for long range schidt shots - get closer and make a clean kill or make it a "one that got away" story. I’m missing something, by 6:00 hold, you mean putting the bead of your sight just below your intended target? So you sight in intentionally setting your rifle to shoot a few inches higher than your sight bead?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,710 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,710 Likes: 1 |
Cool, I didn't know it was called a 6 o'clock hold. I just thought that's how you were supposed to do it. Another thing my dad taught me when teaching me how to hunt/shoot.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,059
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,059 |
Back in the day, 200 yards was a chip shot. 600 to maybe 650 was a good probable. That was 35 - 40 years ago. These days maybe 150 unless it's running. Things change. Life goes on. Without a scope? Wouldn't your front sight completely block out a deer at 600yds? Not if you sighted in using a 6 O'clock hold. Bingo! It's the way I was taught, and all disciplines I'm aware of teach now. When sighting in I place the shot group at the bottom of the bullseye not the center so the bullet strikes an animal right at where the top of the front sight indicates. Center bullseye hits are only useful when shooting scores in competition. Why would one willingly blot out his target with a front sight bead? 600 yard shots at deer, with iron sights? Huh uh. Nope. No way. Way too much room for error, with a huge chance of missing or wounding the animal - unethical in the extreme IMO. Factoring in wind and atmospheric conditions is tough enough with a good scope let alone iron sights, even if the gun was carefully zero'ed in at that distance. As always, a hunter's hind legs are the best substitute for long range schidt shots - get closer and make a clean kill or make it a "one that got away" story. I’m missing something, by 6:00 hold, you mean putting the bead of your sight just below your intended target? So you sight in intentionally setting your rifle to shoot a few inches higher than your sight bead? Yes, you put the top of your bead/blade right at the bottom of your bullseye/spot/target so you aren't obstructing the view, and your POI at the zeroed distance is the bullseye.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,891
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 13,891 |
�Can we move this along?" a bored voice stated. "I have places to be and people to shag."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2 |
I’m missing something, by 6:00 hold, you mean putting the bead of your sight just below your intended target? So you sight in intentionally setting your rifle to shoot a few inches higher than your sight bead? Well, yes, if you sight in a couple inches higher than the bottom edge of a bullseye (where the top of your front sight bead/post/etc. rests when employing a 6 o'clock hold, put the top of the sight right on the bottom of the bullseye) - say by doing so at 100 yards in case you attempt a shot at 200 yards where the trajectory of the bullet will fall back to point of aim. (Check/know the ballistics of your bullet beforehand to confirm this trajectory.) Otherwise, for general hunting in thick woods for example, just adjust your sight to put your hits right at where the top of the bead/post points. After going through that exercise you will have a cluster of hits right on the bottom of your bullseye. Hint: use a big darned bullseye to shoot at if your eyeballs have some age to them.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,761
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,761 |
The six o’clock hold …….its really neat……..
Cuz if you use it ……..U get some meat ! 🥩
Good hunting!
Last edited by Angus1895; 10/25/22.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2 |
There is a young hunter named Angus whose exploits are well known among us. He draws a fine bead, with a wee bit of lead, and his deer drops with zero awareness.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,343 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 9,343 Likes: 1 |
600 yards with open sights?
Calling total f’n bullsheet on that.
Carlos Hathcock with his bull barrel model 70 with 8x Unertl
Ok
"You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" ~Admiral Yamamoto~
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. ~Thomas Jefferson~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,288
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,288 |
My bad. I just glanced at it and and thought we were just talking about the longest shot. Yeah, I was using a scope and I wasn't shooting at deer back in the day. Longest shot I ever made with iron sites was about 450 with an M1 I'd never shot before when the designated sniper, for whatever reason, wouldn't take the shot. [bleep] happens.
Go tell the Spartans,Travelers passing by,That here,Obedient to their laws we lie.
I'm older now but I'm still runnin' against the wind
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,227 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 28,227 Likes: 1 |
Back in the day, 200 yards was a chip shot. 600 to maybe 650 was a good probable. That was 35 - 40 years ago. These days maybe 150 unless it's running. Things change. Life goes on. Without a scope? Wouldn't your front sight completely block out a deer at 600yds? Not if you sighted in using a 6 O'clock hold. Bingo! It's the way I was taught, and all disciplines I'm aware of teach now. When sighting in I place the shot group at the bottom of the bullseye not the center so the bullet strikes an animal right at where the top of the front sight indicates. Center bullseye hits are only useful when shooting scores in competition. Why would one willingly blot out his target with a front sight bead? 600 yard shots at deer, with iron sights? Huh uh. Nope. No way. Way too much room for error, with a huge chance of missing or wounding the animal - unethical in the extreme IMO. Factoring in wind and atmospheric conditions is tough enough with a good scope let alone iron sights, even if the gun was carefully zero'ed in at that distance. As always, a hunter's hind legs are the best substitute for long range schidt shots - get closer and make a clean kill or make it a "one that got away" story. I’m missing something, by 6:00 hold, you mean putting the bead of your sight just below your intended target? So you sight in intentionally setting your rifle to shoot a few inches higher than your sight bead? Yes, you put the top of your bead/blade right at the bottom of your bullseye/spot/target so you aren't obstructing the view, and your POI at the zeroed distance is the bullseye. OK So I want to sight in at 100 yds, so I set the bead for the bottom of the bullseye at 100yds, but still want the shot to hit the center of the bullseye?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,891 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,891 Likes: 9 |
300 to 400 yds easily. I spent time each summer, shooting at small ground squirrels out to 200 yds, and like this past summer, spend time ringing steel at 300 and 400 yds with a bolt action 223....with a powder charge of 10 grains of Unique and 50 and 55 grain bullets.
Guess I went thru around 900 to a 1000 rounds or more between May and September of this year....
out there at 300 yds, with that practice and time shooting ground squirrels, come deer season, a deer seems the size of a dump truck out there. and a flatter shooting cartridge, that what I practice with all summer, make that a lot easier....
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,495
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,495 |
This is probably the rule for deer hunters east of the Mississippi valley including me. Exceptions exist and West is another story.
"Every day above ground is a good day."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,132 Likes: 2 |
OK So I want to sight in at 100 yds, so I set the bead for the bottom of the bullseye at 100yds, but still want the shot to hit the center of the bullseye? No. If you are sighting in for 100 yards put your target at 100 yards, put your bead at 6 o'clock, adjust rear sight until your shots land at 6 o'clock on the bullseye not center of bullseye. Hits on the paper higher than that will coincide with being zero'ed for longer distances.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 611
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 611 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,761
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,761 |
I was a 19 E in the Army……. a tanker…..or otherwise called a DAT….tread head….yada yada yada
M60 A3
We were advised to use a six o’clock hold on a point bank engagement
They called it battelsight ….
It is what I need to focus on especially with a scope point blank.
I like my scoped rifles two inches high at 100 yards.
Last edited by Angus1895; 10/26/22.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10 |
OK So I want to sight in at 100 yds, so I set the bead for the bottom of the bullseye at 100yds, but still want the shot to hit the center of the bullseye? No. If you are sighting in for 100 yards put your target at 100 yards, put your bead at 6 o'clock, adjust rear sight until your shots land at 6 o'clock on the bullseye not center of bullseye. Hits on the paper higher than that will coincide with being zero'ed for longer distances. This was done with a scoped rifle at 200 yards, but the principle is the same. The point of aim is the bottom of the bullseye, and the point of impact is just above the point of aim. Comme ça:
|
|
|
|
166 members (2500HD, 24HourCampFireGuy50, 338reddog, 204guy, 1lessdog, 2ndwind, 24 invisible),
1,856
guests, and
891
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,193,446
Posts18,507,896
Members74,002
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|