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Originally Posted by IZH27
All atheists aren’t hostile. I have friends who are atheists. Good people and a joy to be around.

I’ve run into a few of these hostile types. I have found them to generally have a personal “history” with Christianity, something that causes trauma to the point that there is exaggerated mistrust that tends to convert into open hostility.

There is certainly no justification for the absurd amount of energy they consume and ends to which they go to rail against something that “Doesn’t Exist”.

Being slaughtered by Christians for not believing their faith may seem hostile. Enforcing Christian beliefs onto others may seem hostile. Asking questions and pointing out fallacies and logical errors and contradictions is doing the right thing but Christians call that hostile.

Infanticide, genocide, slavery etc appears to be acceptable to the Christians - it was good enough for God. Fun for the whole family.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?

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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=DBT][quote=Raspy][quote=DBT][quote=IZH27]
The problem with you 2 is that you do not have an honest open inquiry and honest questioning..I respond with frustration toward you 2....How many times does one have to tell you that we do not have proof of the TRUTH, only that there is much EVIDENCE in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the HOPE for things PROMISED and UNSEEN.

The "evidence" that we have points towards truths and none of it to any god. Much "evidence of god" has turned out to be explained by natural means, not magic. The gods are evaporating.

I emphatically disagree...and as you say, bafflegab, and what proof do you have to back up your statement?

There is more archaeological evidence for Jesus’ existence than for virtually any other figure from ancient history. There’s an abundance of corroborating archaeological evidence; a great amount of the people, cities, places, etc. of Jesus’ life and ministry are established in the archaeological record. But when it comes to Jesus specifically, the best evidence we have is God the Bible and hopefully the evidence that we have will point towards the truth.

Jesus likely did exist. All the extraordinary stuff around his life, not so much - no evidence of that stuff for some reason. Over the centuries Jesus turned white and became caucasian, and no-one batted an eyelid. There are even arguements going on currently about whether he was god or not.

More evidence and less arguements over the existance of Spiderman.

You believe what you believe, and I'll believe what I believe......your last sentence is what pi$$es Christians on the Fire off, and I'm sure you cannot help yourself....you love triggering folks like me, Aces, IZH27, CCCC, There_Ya_Go, just to name a few...I think that is why you keep coming back as you really enjoy harassing, incensing, and infuriating us.

But, to help you to understand, not only is the Bible we have today a reliable rendering of the ancient writings as evidence; it is by far the best documented collection of ancient texts in existence! I know you will not do it, but I would like to suggest you go to a good Bible or Bible dictionary and look up such topics as “Text of the Old Testament,” “Text of the New Testament” or “English Bible” versions.

By the way, there are many excellent modern versions of the Bible out there. The newer versions that the Gideon's distribute are well grounded in the ancient texts of Scripture.

Antlers, above has good info too....



The majority of the world don't share your faith though - deal with it.

Deal with it..

10. Cao Dai (4.4 Million Followers)
9. Muism/Sinism/Shingyo (10 Million Followers)
8. Daoism (12 Million Followers)
7. Judaism (14 Million Followers)
6. Sikhism (25 Million Followers)
5. Shintoism (104 Million Followers)
4. Buddhism (500 Million Followers)
3. Hinduism (1.1 Billion Followers)
2. Islam (1.8 Billion Followers)
1. Christianity (2.3 Billion Followers)

Surely there is a less vile religion than Christianity in that list - you checked any of the others out yet?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by IZH27
So now we have to take Luke’s Gospel away.

6 books remain.


It was brought to my attention that the Book of Acts was written by Luke. An oversight on my part.

We are now down to 5 useable books in the NT.

Are any more in question? If so, please bring them to my attention and I will adjust the list.

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Authorship is questionable.

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Behold. Your new and improved New Testament.


Matthew
Mark
Hebrews
James
Jude

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Christianity is investigable. You can kick the tires, and ask those hard questions. The evidence shows that there was an extraordinary event. That’s undeniable. That’s how a small sect grew to 3.5 million Christians…against overwhelming odds…by the 4th century. And following the resurrection of Jesus, there was a new movement called the Way, and it was this ekklesia of Jesus that was eventually called the church. And as these things were happening, people who were actually involved in these events documented them for us all. And all of this happened in the first century before 70 AD when the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

And when someone can predict their own death and resurrection…and pull it off…I’m gonna go with whatever that person says and teaches.


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Antlers, if I may ask, what do you do for a living?


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Originally Posted by wabigoon
Antlers, if I may ask, what do you do for a living?
I’ve been an ER nurse for 35 years. Still work full time in the ER doing hands on patient care.


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Good Sir, you could fill in quite nicely as a guest speaker at any Church.


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
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Originally Posted by antlers
Christianity is investigable. You can kick the tires, and ask those hard questions. The evidence shows that there was an extraordinary event. That’s undeniable. That’s how a small sect grew to 3.5 million Christians…against overwhelming odds…by the 4th century. And following the resurrection of Jesus, there was a new movement called the Way, and it was this ekklesia of Jesus that was eventually called the church. And as these things were happening, people who were actually involved in these events documented them for us all. And all of this happened in the first century before 70 AD when the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

And when someone can predict their own death and resurrection…and pull it off…I’m gonna go with whatever that person says and teaches.

Great perspective!


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by IZH27
All atheists aren’t hostile. I have friends who are atheists. Good people and a joy to be around.

I’ve run into a few of these hostile types. I have found them to generally have a personal “history” with Christianity, something that causes trauma to the point that there is exaggerated mistrust that tends to convert into open hostility.

There is certainly no justification for the absurd amount of energy they consume and ends to which they go to rail against something that “Doesn’t Exist”.

Being slaughtered by Christians for not believing their faith may seem hostile. Enforcing Christian beliefs onto others may seem hostile. Asking questions and pointing out fallacies and logical errors and contradictions is doing the right thing but Christians call that hostile.

Infanticide, genocide, slavery etc appears to be acceptable to the Christians - it was good enough for God. Fun for the whole family.

In the 1860s the US had a civil war...bottom line the slaves were officially free citizens...what you say is true as was Christians being slaughtered too....no one here is forcing Christians belief on anyone...no harm in asking questions, but when you denigrate the Christian belief, then you are hostile....cannot you see that?


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=DBT][quote=Raspy][quote=DBT][quote=IZH27]
The problem with you 2 is that you do not have an honest open inquiry and honest questioning..I respond with frustration toward you 2....How many times does one have to tell you that we do not have proof of the TRUTH, only that there is much EVIDENCE in God the Bible that strengthens our Faith in the HOPE for things PROMISED and UNSEEN.

The "evidence" that we have points towards truths and none of it to any god. Much "evidence of god" has turned out to be explained by natural means, not magic. The gods are evaporating.

I emphatically disagree...and as you say, bafflegab, and what proof do you have to back up your statement?

There is more archaeological evidence for Jesus’ existence than for virtually any other figure from ancient history. There’s an abundance of corroborating archaeological evidence; a great amount of the people, cities, places, etc. of Jesus’ life and ministry are established in the archaeological record. But when it comes to Jesus specifically, the best evidence we have is God the Bible and hopefully the evidence that we have will point towards the truth.

Jesus likely did exist. All the extraordinary stuff around his life, not so much - no evidence of that stuff for some reason. Over the centuries Jesus turned white and became caucasian, and no-one batted an eyelid. There are even arguements going on currently about whether he was god or not.

More evidence and less arguements over the existance of Spiderman.

You believe what you believe, and I'll believe what I believe......your last sentence is what pi$$es Christians on the Fire off, and I'm sure you cannot help yourself....you love triggering folks like me, Aces, IZH27, CCCC, There_Ya_Go, just to name a few...I think that is why you keep coming back as you really enjoy harassing, incensing, and infuriating us.

But, to help you to understand, not only is the Bible we have today a reliable rendering of the ancient writings as evidence; it is by far the best documented collection of ancient texts in existence! I know you will not do it, but I would like to suggest you go to a good Bible or Bible dictionary and look up such topics as “Text of the Old Testament,” “Text of the New Testament” or “English Bible” versions.

By the way, there are many excellent modern versions of the Bible out there. The newer versions that the Gideon's distribute are well grounded in the ancient texts of Scripture.

Antlers, above has good info too....



The majority of the world don't share your faith though - deal with it.

Deal with it..

10. Cao Dai (4.4 Million Followers)
9. Muism/Sinism/Shingyo (10 Million Followers)
8. Daoism (12 Million Followers)
7. Judaism (14 Million Followers)
6. Sikhism (25 Million Followers)
5. Shintoism (104 Million Followers)
4. Buddhism (500 Million Followers)
3. Hinduism (1.1 Billion Followers)
2. Islam (1.8 Billion Followers)
1. Christianity (2.3 Billion Followers)

Surely there is a less vile religion than Christianity in that list - you checked any of the others out yet?

Don't try changing the subject that you brought up....presently, how is our faith vile?


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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by IZH27
All atheists aren’t hostile. I have friends who are atheists. Good people and a joy to be around.

I’ve run into a few of these hostile types. I have found them to generally have a personal “history” with Christianity, something that causes trauma to the point that there is exaggerated mistrust that tends to convert into open hostility.

There is certainly no justification for the absurd amount of energy they consume and ends to which they go to rail against something that “Doesn’t Exist”.

Being slaughtered by Christians for not believing their faith may seem hostile. Enforcing Christian beliefs onto others may seem hostile. Asking questions and pointing out fallacies and logical errors and contradictions is doing the right thing but Christians call that hostile.

Infanticide, genocide, slavery etc appears to be acceptable to the Christians - it was good enough for God. Fun for the whole family.

In the 1860s the US had a civil war...bottom line the slaves were officially free citizens...what you say is true as was Christians being slaughtered too....no one here is forcing Christians belief on anyone...no harm in asking questions, but when you denigrate the Christian belief, then you are hostile....cannot you see that?

Just pointing out what millenia of history has taught us. You all good with the Christianity CV?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
[quote=Raspy][quote=DBT][quote=Raspy][quote=DBT]

The "evidence" that we have points towards truths and none of it to any god. Much "evidence of god" has turned out to be explained by natural means, not magic. The gods are evaporating.

I emphatically disagree...and as you say, bafflegab, and what proof do you have to back up your statement?

There is more archaeological evidence for Jesus’ existence than for virtually any other figure from ancient history. There’s an abundance of corroborating archaeological evidence; a great amount of the people, cities, places, etc. of Jesus’ life and ministry are established in the archaeological record. But when it comes to Jesus specifically, the best evidence we have is God the Bible and hopefully the evidence that we have will point towards the truth.

Jesus likely did exist. All the extraordinary stuff around his life, not so much - no evidence of that stuff for some reason. Over the centuries Jesus turned white and became caucasian, and no-one batted an eyelid. There are even arguements going on currently about whether he was god or not.

More evidence and less arguements over the existance of Spiderman.

You believe what you believe, and I'll believe what I believe......your last sentence is what pi$$es Christians on the Fire off, and I'm sure you cannot help yourself....you love triggering folks like me, Aces, IZH27, CCCC, There_Ya_Go, just to name a few...I think that is why you keep coming back as you really enjoy harassing, incensing, and infuriating us.

But, to help you to understand, not only is the Bible we have today a reliable rendering of the ancient writings as evidence; it is by far the best documented collection of ancient texts in existence! I know you will not do it, but I would like to suggest you go to a good Bible or Bible dictionary and look up such topics as “Text of the Old Testament,” “Text of the New Testament” or “English Bible” versions.

By the way, there are many excellent modern versions of the Bible out there. The newer versions that the Gideon's distribute are well grounded in the ancient texts of Scripture.

Antlers, above has good info too....



The majority of the world don't share your faith though - deal with it.

Deal with it..

10. Cao Dai (4.4 Million Followers)
9. Muism/Sinism/Shingyo (10 Million Followers)
8. Daoism (12 Million Followers)
7. Judaism (14 Million Followers)
6. Sikhism (25 Million Followers)
5. Shintoism (104 Million Followers)
4. Buddhism (500 Million Followers)
3. Hinduism (1.1 Billion Followers)
2. Islam (1.8 Billion Followers)
1. Christianity (2.3 Billion Followers)

Surely there is a less vile religion than Christianity in that list - you checked any of the others out yet?

Don't try changing the subject that you brought up....presently, how is our faith vile?

Just read the bible. The old testament is a fertile ground for good information for starters.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Again, atheistic regimes have killed more people in the twentieth century alone than all of the combined religions in the world have killed in all of known history.

But some atheists clearly choose to purposely dance around and ignore that fact.

What we’re seeing in the world today is an undue influence on all of culture…government, education, news media, social media, politics, the indoctrination of children and young people, medicine, science, etc….by the ideologies that are the polar opposite of those that influenced the development of Western Civilization.

And it for damn sure ain’t an improvement.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Christianity is investigable. You can kick the tires, and ask those hard questions. The evidence shows that there was an extraordinary event. That’s undeniable. That’s how a small sect grew to 3.5 million Christians…against overwhelming odds…by the 4th century. And following the resurrection of Jesus, there was a new movement called the Way, and it was this ekklesia of Jesus that was eventually called the church. And as these things were happening, people who were actually involved in these events documented them for us all. And all of this happened in the first century before 70 AD when the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

And when someone can predict their own death and resurrection…and pull it off…I’m gonna go with whatever that person says and teaches.

We are told there was a extraordinary event. We are told about it by various authors long after the described event was said to have happened.

The ancients tended to see signs and wonders, Simon Magus and other miracle workers, for instance, where we would be more sceptical and rigorous in our investigation.

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Originally Posted by IZH27
Behold. Your new and improved New Testament.


Matthew
Mark
Hebrews
James
Jude
I like Revelation by John the Elder. It doesn't disagree with Jesus. It acknowledges the primacy of Israel, and right off the bat in chapter 2 it commends Ephesus for giving the false apostles the boot which Paul also recounts in 2nd Timothy 1:15 "that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me".

I actually like all 4 gospels, but John was obviously promoting an agenda at times that is missing from the other 3.

The original bible called the Old Testament had been around too long to suffer redactions and additions and it was endorsed by Jesus in the most reliable of the 4 gospels.

I don't think John was a liar. He did take the liberty of injecting his opinions without the disclaimer that they were opinions.

Paul did write some obvious truths but that is exactly what a perjurer would do. You can bet that the Romans desperately wanted to plant an agent into the Christian movement which they and their high ranking Jewish allies deemed seditious. It was very obvious that Paul was important to them when he was put into protective custody and eventually spirited away to Rome where he finally may have met his match when Nero the nut case emperor took over. But in reality we don't know what eventually happened to him.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by antlers
Again, atheistic regimes have killed more people in the twentieth century alone than all of the combined religions in the world have killed in all of known history.

But some atheists clearly choose to purposely dance around and ignore that fact.

What we’re seeing in the world today is an undue influence on all of culture…government, education, news media, social media, politics, the indoctrination of children and young people, medicine, science, etc….by the ideologies that are the polar opposite of those that influenced the development of Western Civilization.

And it for damn sure ain’t an improvement.

Again, politics, power, self interest, ideology nothing to do with atheism.

Plus you need to consider what has been done in the name of God and, or the gods by theistic rulers over the course of history, when atheism was in a minority.

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Christianity is investigable. You can kick the tires, and ask those hard questions. The evidence shows that there was an extraordinary event. That’s undeniable. That’s how a small sect grew to 3.5 million Christians…against overwhelming odds…by the 4th century. And following the resurrection of Jesus, there was a new movement called the Way, and it was this ekklesia of Jesus that was eventually called the church. And as these things were happening, people who were actually involved in these events documented them for us all. And all of this happened in the first century before 70 AD when the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

And when someone can predict their own death and resurrection…and pull it off…I’m gonna go with whatever that person says and teaches.

We are told there was a extraordinary event. We are told about it by various authors long after the described event was said to have happened.

The ancients tended to see signs and wonders, Simon Magus and other miracle workers, for instance, where we would be more sceptical and rigorous in our investigation.
Oh but some ancients were skeptical.....many early Christians did not trust the Magician Simon Magus. He was considered a representation of Satan, who came to earth to alter and mislead the true faith. St. Cyril of Jerusalem, a theologian of the early Church, wrote that he was "the first Dragon of evil" who was "cast into hell." For other contemporary high-ranking members of the clergymen, he was the symbol of unrest, sin, and falsehood and the one through whom "all heresies came."

The Apostles warned Simon Magus of his actions' wickedness and rejected him. He left Christianity and created a Simonite sect dedicated to the master of divine worship, and he played a religious role. His mystical concept became popular in some circles, and his believers considered him as God (or Father) in human form. He was even sometimes worshiped as the incarnation of the Greek god Zeus.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Again, atheistic regimes have killed more people in the twentieth century alone than all of the combined religions in the world have killed in all of known history.

But some atheists clearly choose to purposely dance around and ignore that fact.

What we’re seeing in the world today is an undue influence on all of culture…government, education, news media, social media, politics, the indoctrination of children and young people, medicine, science, etc….by the ideologies that are the polar opposite of those that influenced the development of Western Civilization.

And it for damn sure ain’t an improvement.

Prove your claim. Show why all these people were killed in the name of atheism.

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