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I would like to ask your opinion. Could a person who only had access to the Old Testament and the 4 gospels learn enough to achieve salvation? What if all he had was the OT and the book of Matthew? I'm not asking you to state with certainty if you don't know for certain. Just your opinion. Jesus’ earliest Gentile followers had no scripture at all. The old testament meant nothing to the Gentiles. And the New Testament documents hadn’t even been written yet. But the original version of Christianity wasn’t text-based, it was event-based ~ for both the earliest Gentile Christians and the earliest Jewish Christians.
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Hastings.
Since you don’t believe that Jesus is divine what about him do you trust that makes him your lord?
If he isn’t divine how is he your savior? I am not thinking your question actually states my position. I do believe he was divine in that the creator God sent him and gave him supernatural powers to perform miracles for the purpose of impressing mankind that he was truly sent by God on a mission to bring the truth the light and the way. I just can't see that He explicitly claimed any more than that. I'm not sure how a Hebrew prophet, Rabbi, and Savior became a Christian God. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe the covenant with the Hebrew people has been annulled. We are invited in to the covenant. We didn't win it at a Jewish bankruptcy sale.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously makes claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament that world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute. You most definitely do have an agenda. THIS^^^^^^ and consider this.... What was the implication, suggestion, declaration, meaning or statement, In JESUS' answer to the high priest, that so incensed the chief priests and the Sanhedrin??? When asked: 'are you the CHRIST, the Son of the BLESSED One'? “I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.” For 'them', the Sanhedrin, the Council, the priests, there was only ONE.......... 'that came riding on the clouds of heaven', YAHWEH, no one else! JESUS had said that 'HE was GOD', in essence, they were incensed, accused HIM of blasphemy, and determined to kill HIM............... And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us................ and they esteemed him not!!!
Last edited by Muffin; 10/31/22.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Hastings.
Since you don’t believe that Jesus is divine what about him do you trust that makes him your lord?
If he isn’t divine how is he your savior? I am not thinking your question actually states my position. I do believe he was divine in that the creator God sent him and gave him supernatural powers to perform miracles for the purpose of impressing mankind that he was truly sent by God on a mission to bring the truth the light and the way. I just can't see that He explicitly claimed any more than that. I'm not sure how a Hebrew prophet, Rabbi, and Savior became a Christian God. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't believe the covenant with the Hebrew people has been annulled. We are invited in to the covenant. We didn't win it at a Jewish bankruptcy sale. How does the truth that he was sent to bring make him your lord and savior?
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I don't believe the covenant with the Hebrew people has been annulled. It’s definitely been retired for Jewish Christians . Luke documented that Peter made it crystal clear at the First Jerusalem Council that Jewish Christians are saved through the grace of Jesus… not through the Law of Moses…but through the grace of Jesus, just as Gentile Christians are. This has been pointed out to you over and over and over. And since it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology, you simply dismiss it ~ you simply dismiss Peter and you simply dismiss Luke. And then, as usual, you make assertions about things being “altered” or “added to” the New Testament when it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology; despite the fact that biblical scholars refute your assertions. And then you use circuitous tactics to make the same statement or ask the same question to purposely drive the conversation in circles.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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We witnessed pure evil reappear in 2020 and it was quickly embraced in a former slave colony like facist Australia by the anti science ignorant pro totalitarian mouth breathers 2mmmauser Yet he’s a freedom luvin anti Christian bigot! All atheists aren’t hostile. I have friends who are atheists. Good people and a joy to be around.
I’ve run into a few of these hostile types. I have found them to generally have a personal “history” with Christianity, something that causes trauma to the point that there is exaggerated mistrust that tends to convert into open hostility.
There is certainly no justification for the absurd amount of energy they consume and ends to which they go to rail against something that “Doesn’t Exist”. Being slaughtered by Christians for not believing their faith may seem hostile. Enforcing Christian beliefs onto others may seem hostile. Asking questions and pointing out fallacies and logical errors and contradictions is doing the right thing but Christians call that hostile. Infanticide, genocide, slavery etc appears to be acceptable to the Christians - it was good enough for God. Fun for the whole family. In the 1860s the US had a civil war...bottom line the slaves were officially free citizens...what you say is true as was Christians being slaughtered too....no one here is forcing Christians belief on anyone...no harm in asking questions, but when you denigrate the Christian belief, then you are hostile....cannot you see that? Just pointing out what millenia of history has taught us. You all good with the Christianity CV? No you are not just pointing out....you denigrate the Christian belief. Just pointing out that Christianity has some things that it should be ashamed of. Being that scared of your god to accept his immoral actions is a damn shame. Hey, good to see you show up for a whinge. How's things going your way? Are you still angry with your girlfriend for getting double vaxed? Are you still on the "Chosen Ones" list?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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THIS^^^^^^ and consider this....
What was the implication, suggestion, declaration, meaning or statement, In JESUS' answer to the high priest, that so incensed the chief priests and the Sanhedrin???
When asked: 'are you the CHRIST, the Son of the BLESSED One'?
“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
For 'them', the Sanhedrin, the Council, the priests, there was only ONE.......... 'that came riding on the clouds of heaven', YAHWEH, no one else!
JESUS had said that 'HE was GOD', in essence, they were incensed, accused HIM of blasphemy, and determined to kill HIM...............
And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us................ and they esteemed him not!!! OK, he claimed to be the Messiah, the savior. Some of the Jews accepted him, most of the ranking Jewish leaders of the day did not. The first Christians were Jews. Christianity is a sect of Judaism regardless of what the various councils and codification committees declared. He will return some day and then will all be fulfilled.
Last edited by Hastings; 10/31/22.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision.
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Christianity is a sect of Judaism regardless of what the various councils and codification committees declared. No it’s not. Now you’re simply discrediting James the brother of Jesus as well as the Apostle Peter because what they made crystal clear as leaders of the early church doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out. And there’s our ever-faithful atheist, showing up on cue on the Christianity thread. If we only had the faith of you atheists!!
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THIS^^^^^^ and consider this....
What was the implication, suggestion, declaration, meaning or statement, In JESUS' answer to the high priest, that so incensed the chief priests and the Sanhedrin???
When asked: 'are you the CHRIST, the Son of the BLESSED One'?
“I am,” said Jesus, “and you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
For 'them', the Sanhedrin, the Council, the priests, there was only ONE.......... 'that came riding on the clouds of heaven', YAHWEH, no one else!
JESUS had said that 'HE was GOD', in essence, they were incensed, accused HIM of blasphemy, and determined to kill HIM...............
And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us................ and they esteemed him not!!! OK, he claimed to be the Messiah, the savior. Some of the Jews accepted him, most of the ranking Jewish leaders of the day did not. The first Christians were Jews. Christianity is a sect of Judaism regardless of what the various councils and codification committees declared. He will return some day and then will all be fulfilled. John said HE was GOD!
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
( . Y . )
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out. And there’s our ever-faithful atheist, showing up on cue on the Christianity thread. If we only had the faith of you atheists!! You got serious issues to sort out with your bretheren. I'll just spectate ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/rxsOzcK.gif) I recall a time when Antlers was fine with other people believing whatever they wanted to believe. There seems to be a limit now that if the belief comes close to his, then it must be consistent with his, otherwise the battle is on. Will be real Jesus belief system please stand up?
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out. And there’s our ever-faithful atheist, showing up on cue on the Christianity thread. If we only had the faith of you atheists!! You got serious issues to sort out with your bretheren. I'll just spectate I recall a time when Antlers was fine with other people believing whatever they wanted to believe. There seems to be a limit now that if the belief comes close to his, then it must be consistent with his, otherwise the battle is on. Will be real Jesus belief system please stand up? Mauser, why are you SO interested in Christianity and what Christians believe? If you, indeed, are an atheist, why would you care if some of us love Jesus and accept Him as our Lord and Savior? Why are you front and center in a thread, make that every thread, about Christianity? Are you being convicted to change your mind? Are you that evil? What drives you so rabidly to attack Christians for loving their God Jesus Christ? Why would an atheist care at all about what Christians believe? What is your agenda?
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Well, at least maybe some of you are rethinking your position since Jesus never explicitly made that claim and that would have been a point he would have most assuredly emphasized. Messiah and King of the Jews does not equal God, the God to whom he constantly prayed to and constantly made reference to. How does one sit at the right hand of the Father and also be the Father? It is a complicated process to make Jesus and God the same entity by using the bible as the source even if you use all the accepted canonized New Testament that we have today.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out. And there’s our ever-faithful atheist, showing up on cue on the Christianity thread. If we only had the faith of you atheists!! Why do you resent atheists participating? Why such intolerance and resentment? And you know that a lack of conviction is not a matter of faith. How many things are you not convinced of because there is insufficient evidence to support a conviction? Do you believe that Mohammad was a prophet of God? Do you believe the gods of Hinduism exist? Do you need faith to tell you how unlikely these things are?
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out. And there’s our ever-faithful atheist, showing up on cue on the Christianity thread. If we only had the faith of you atheists!! You got serious issues to sort out with your bretheren. I'll just spectate I recall a time when Antlers was fine with other people believing whatever they wanted to believe. There seems to be a limit now that if the belief comes close to his, then it must be consistent with his, otherwise the battle is on. Will be real Jesus belief system please stand up? Mauser, why are you SO interested in Christianity and what Christians believe? If you, indeed, are an atheist, why would you care if some of us love Jesus and accept Him as our Lord and Savior? Why are you front and center in a thread, make that every thread, about Christianity? Are you being convicted to change your mind? Are you that evil? What drives you so rabidly to attack Christians for loving their God Jesus Christ? Why would an atheist care at all about what Christians believe? What is your agenda? My reasons have been stated before. Your cloak of persecution allows you to remain ignorant and act stupid while spewing a cloud of wild assertions.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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Yeah ya’ do. Clearly. If Luke clearly points out that Paul was handpicked by Jesus Himself, you simply discredit Luke. If John clearly points out the divinity of Jesus, you simply discredit John. If Peter clearly points out that Paul’s epistles were considered by him to be scripture, you simply discredit Peter. When Jesus Himself makes His divinity crystal clear, you simply discredit what He said. When the Law abiding Jews who were actually there with Jesus make it crystal clear that Jesus claimed to be God, you simply discredit them. You continuously make claims about “additions” and “alterations” to the New Testament when something in it doesn’t jive with your own already decided upon theology even though world renowned biblical scholars clearly and definitively refute your assertions. You most definitely do have an agenda. Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out. And there’s our ever-faithful atheist, showing up on cue on the Christianity thread. If we only had the faith of you atheists!! You got serious issues to sort out with your bretheren. I'll just spectate I recall a time when Antlers was fine with other people believing whatever they wanted to believe. There seems to be a limit now that if the belief comes close to his, then it must be consistent with his, otherwise the battle is on. Will be real Jesus belief system please stand up? Mauser, why are you SO interested in Christianity and what Christians believe? If you, indeed, are an atheist, why would you care if some of us love Jesus and accept Him as our Lord and Savior? Why are you front and center in a thread, make that every thread, about Christianity? Are you being convicted to change your mind? Are you that evil? What drives you so rabidly to attack Christians for loving their God Jesus Christ? Why would an atheist care at all about what Christians believe? What is your agenda? My reasons have been stated before. Your cloak of persecution allows you to remain ignorant and act stupid while spewing a cloud of wild assertions. That’s pretty shallow. Surely, you got more than that? I think you are the stupid, ignorant one, but, hey, your choice, your free will…
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[quote=antlers]
Write Hastings off. He has made his bed, his free will, his choice… Let him wallow in his decision. Christians even beat up other Christians. You guys need to sort this out. And there’s our ever-faithful atheist, showing up on cue on the Christianity thread. If we only had the faith of you atheists!! You got serious issues to sort out with your bretheren. I'll just spectate I recall a time when Antlers was fine with other people believing whatever they wanted to believe. There seems to be a limit now that if the belief comes close to his, then it must be consistent with his, otherwise the battle is on. Will be real Jesus belief system please stand up? Mauser, why are you SO interested in Christianity and what Christians believe? If you, indeed, are an atheist, why would you care if some of us love Jesus and accept Him as our Lord and Savior? Why are you front and center in a thread, make that every thread, about Christianity? Are you being convicted to change your mind? Are you that evil? What drives you so rabidly to attack Christians for loving their God Jesus Christ? Why would an atheist care at all about what Christians believe? What is your agenda? My reasons have been stated before. Your cloak of persecution allows you to remain ignorant and act stupid while spewing a cloud of wild assertions. That’s pretty shallow. Surely, you got more than that? I think you are the stupid, ignorant one, but, hey, your choice, your free will… In a nutshell asking questions, pointing out fallacies and logical errors, just trying to help a brother out. Fingers in ears must be comforting for some.
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk. That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied. Well?
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