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Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Aces the ecclesiastical cheerleader: "Go Team Jesus, Fuck Everyone Else".

I'm yet to see you add anything to this discussion except disruption and abuse - or is that your understanding of being a good Christian?

Thanks little bitch. 😂

If I’m disrupting you and disrespecting you then I appreciate your “excited utterance” and I take it as a compliment, despite it being an accidental compliment on your part. I detest you and your petulant partner, not because you’re homosexuals and not because you’re atheists, I detest how immature and dishonest you are…..I hate liars and I made you and your butt buddy as liars early on.

If I disrupt you and disrespect you then I assure you that it’s completely intentional.

You hate liars, yet you are the one lying. You act like a petulant child, wailing at anyone who dares say anything that doesn't suit your favorite story tales.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys...=465&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none


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Why in the world would Matthew or Mark or Luke or John even bother to bring us a detailed account of a first century Judean day laborer turned rabbi who was rejected by His own people and executed by Rome…? Why is that even a story worth telling…? And why would “many” others try to tell us that story as well…?

The answer is simple, because something extraordinary happened. Something extraordinary that had implications for all future generations. Something extraordinary and good had happened on behalf of not just the people in Judea, but on behalf of all of the people in all of the whole world. From then on.


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Aces the ecclesiastical cheerleader: "Go Team Jesus, Fuck Everyone Else".

I'm yet to see you add anything to this discussion except disruption and abuse - or is that your understanding of being a good Christian?

Thanks little bitch. 😂

If I’m disrupting you and disrespecting you then I appreciate your “excited utterance” and I take it as a compliment, despite it being an accidental compliment on your part. I detest you and your petulant partner, not because you’re homosexuals and not because you’re atheists, I detest how immature and dishonest you are…..I hate liars and I made you and your butt buddy as liars early on.

If I disrupt you and disrespect you then I assure you that it’s completely intentional.

You hate liars, yet you are the one lying. You act like a petulant child, wailing at anyone who dares say anything that doesn't suit your favorite story tales.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys...=465&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none

What story tales are you referring to?


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Is this cherry-picking?.....
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Isaiah 45:7 ....I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

No, no it's not. It's no cherry and it comes straight from your bible, and is there for all to read. Denial of it is part of cherry picking (ie ignore the bad, pick the good). Your god created evil - it's his deliberate mess that he's willing to send you to hell for - what a champ, and you want to worship him even though you have to force yourself to believe it all.

There are more quotes to choose from so why did you pick that one? Why did not you choose one of these?.....

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
- New American Standard Version (1995)

I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
- Basic English Bible

I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
- World English Bible

Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
- Youngs Literal Bible

Mine was the King James version - you saying it's wrong? Or do you just prefer the watered down versions? There's plenty of other horror stories in any and all versions.

I am not saying you are wrong...I am saying for the 10th time...that over the centuries words and meanings have changed...

Last edited by Raspy; 11/03/22. Reason: spelling

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by misser
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Raspy
The snippets you pointed out are OT...and NT...but you do not include the context....for example, the one you despise the most....

“Happy is the one who seizes your infants / and dashes them against the rocks.” To “imprecate” means to “pray evil against,” and the imprecatory prayers in the Bible strike people today as strange or wrong. It is important to understand the context of this verse and others like it. The background is the Jewish people calling upon God to exact revenge upon their military enemies.

Context doesn't alter what is said. When the bible tells us that God is responsible for the existence of evil, that is precisely what is meant and intended,

When the bible tells us that God creates evil and the evildoer for the day of evil, that is precisely what is meant and intended.

When the bible tells us that God as the 'Potter' creates vessels 'fitted for destruction,' that is precisely what is meant and intended.

Context does not alter what is written, meant and intended.

Context does not transform what is written, meant and intended into something more palatable for the believer. .

Yes, God created evil. However, it is important to understand that God did not create evil directly, but indirectly. God created angels and men with the potential and capability of committing evil by sinning because it was an important part of God’s Plan for them that they would experience both good and evil.
Two beings who represent the pinnacle of evil are Satan and Hitler. One is a fallen angel and the other is a fallen man. God created a holy angel called Lucifer who became Satan when he sinned by rebelling against God. Also, God created Adam and Eve who were holy people before they sinned by eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As a result of their sin, Adam and Eve became sinners and all of their descendants are born with an unrighteous sinful fallen nature.
God has complete foreknowledge of everything that happens in His creation. Therefore, the sins of fallen angels and the sins of fallen men do not take Him by surprise
you are just a bit ignorant. no God did not created evil. thats something developed by a spirit /angel that went against God's arrangement. that one was not named Lucifer we in fact dont know what his name really is

The bible itself states that God creates evil.

It states that God creates the evildoer for the day of evil, that God creates the dumb, the blind, the deaf, etc....that God is responsible for all these things, good and evil:


"And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?" Exodus 4:11


"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? " (Lamentations 3:38)


"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.'' Proverbs 16:4


Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6, KJV)

''Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps.'' (Psalm 135:6)

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

This is your bible telling you this, not me.

As usual, you don’t understand…..,probably because you don’t want to.

Be that as it may… God does bring judgment for sin and disobedience.

If one were to look at these verses in context this is clear.

However, you cannot..blinded?

For example, I have previously explained the “Happy is the one who…..” set of verses. As I recall the verses describe the enemies of the Jews after a Jewish defeat.

I don't understand? What a load of Crock.

It is you who cannot accept what the verses clearly say and mean.

It is you who seeks to rationalize what they are telling us.

You do that because it doesn't fit the image of God that you have created in your own mind.

Because what we are told about God creating evil does not suit the image of God you have created in your own mind, you seek to transform what we are clearly told into something that suits your needs, the opposite of what is clearly written and meant.

That is the truth.

Again and again and again.....That is your opinion.....not to be too crude, but opinions are like asp-holes, we all have one.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Aces the ecclesiastical cheerleader: "Go Team Jesus, Fuck Everyone Else".

I'm yet to see you add anything to this discussion except disruption and abuse - or is that your understanding of being a good Christian?

Thanks little bitch. 😂

If I’m disrupting you and disrespecting you then I appreciate your “excited utterance” and I take it as a compliment, despite it being an accidental compliment on your part. I detest you and your petulant partner, not because you’re homosexuals and not because you’re atheists, I detest how immature and dishonest you are…..I hate liars and I made you and your butt buddy as liars early on.

If I disrupt you and disrespect you then I assure you that it’s completely intentional.

Attaboy. You seem to have given up the debate too.

How so?


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Dark is the absence of light..

Violence is not violence unless there is peace..

There is no Lawlessness without Law..

There is no wrong, without right..


"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867

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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Is this cherry-picking?.....
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Isaiah 45:7 ....I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

No, no it's not. It's no cherry and it comes straight from your bible, and is there for all to read. Denial of it is part of cherry picking (ie ignore the bad, pick the good). Your god created evil - it's his deliberate mess that he's willing to send you to hell for - what a champ, and you want to worship him even though you have to force yourself to believe it all.

There are more quotes to choose from so why did you pick that one? Why did not you choose one of these?.....

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
- New American Standard Version (1995)

I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
- Basic English Bible

I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
- World English Bible

Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
- Youngs Literal Bible

Mine was the King James version - you saying it's wrong? Or do you just prefer the watered down versions? There's plenty of other horror stories in any and all versions.

I am not saying you are wrong...I am saying for the 10th time...that over the centuries words and meanings have changed...

Well there you go. How do you know then what any of it means? It's a pretty useless instruction manual if you know it isn't written as it was supposed to be. That means it's all just extreme cherry picking where you assign whatever meaning you would like.

You could probably write to King James and tell them to change their version because you don't like it.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Luke said that “Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us.” Not among ‘them’. This happened, and it happened in his lifetime. All of ancient history was most often written by people who lived long after the events, and they would cobble together the different accounts and writings and try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament.


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Why in the world do you and Raspy keep sparing with the two (or 3) demons from the pit of hell??

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Is this cherry-picking?.....
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Isaiah 45:7 ....I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

No, no it's not. It's no cherry and it comes straight from your bible, and is there for all to read. Denial of it is part of cherry picking (ie ignore the bad, pick the good). Your god created evil - it's his deliberate mess that he's willing to send you to hell for - what a champ, and you want to worship him even though you have to force yourself to believe it all.

There are more quotes to choose from so why did you pick that one? Why did not you choose one of these?.....

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
- New American Standard Version (1995)

I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
- Basic English Bible

I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
- World English Bible

Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
- Youngs Literal Bible

Mine was the King James version - you saying it's wrong? Or do you just prefer the watered down versions? There's plenty of other horror stories in any and all versions.

I am not saying you are wrong...I am saying for the 10th time...that over the centuries words and meanings have changed...

Well there you go. How do you know then what any of it means? It's a pretty useless instruction manual if you know it isn't written as it was supposed to be. That means it's all just extreme cherry picking where you assign whatever meaning you would like.

You could probably write to King James and tell them to change their version because you don't like it.

No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

And again, like antlers said so eloquently, The answer is simple, because something extraordinary happened. Something extraordinary that had implications for all future generations. Something extraordinary and good had happened on behalf of not just the people in Judea, but on behalf of all of the people in all of the whole world. From then on.

I have faith.

Last edited by Raspy; 11/03/22. Reason: spelling

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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Is this cherry-picking?.....
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Isaiah 45:7 ....I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

No, no it's not. It's no cherry and it comes straight from your bible, and is there for all to read. Denial of it is part of cherry picking (ie ignore the bad, pick the good). Your god created evil - it's his deliberate mess that he's willing to send you to hell for - what a champ, and you want to worship him even though you have to force yourself to believe it all.

There are more quotes to choose from so why did you pick that one? Why did not you choose one of these?.....

The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
- New American Standard Version (1995)

I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
- Basic English Bible

I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.
- World English Bible

Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'
- Youngs Literal Bible

Mine was the King James version - you saying it's wrong? Or do you just prefer the watered down versions? There's plenty of other horror stories in any and all versions.

I am not saying you are wrong...I am saying for the 10th time...that over the centuries words and meanings have changed...

Well there you go. How do you know then what any of it means? It's a pretty useless instruction manual if you know it isn't written as it was supposed to be. That means it's all just extreme cherry picking where you assign whatever meaning you would like.

You could probably write to King James and tell them to change their version because you don't like it.

No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]


No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?


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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]


No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?

Except it's not my opinion. Historical and biblical scholars back up the fact of the issues with the documentation, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations today backs up my interpretation claim. You're all using the same infallible word of god book.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]


No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?

Except it's not my opinion. Historical and biblical scholars back up the fact of the issues with the documentation, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations today backs up my interpretation claim. You're all using the same infallible word of god book.

ok....But I do not try and cherry pick....but you have to think about this....God the Bible may sometimes contain errors, big and small, because its writers were human. Sometimes, the errors were "innocent," other times they were contrived, purposeful, and made to fulfill an agenda...but overall Christians still have faith and believe in God the Bible.

Last edited by Raspy; 11/03/22. Reason: spelling

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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]


No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?

Except it's not my opinion. Historical and biblical scholars back up the fact of the issues with the documentation, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations today backs up my interpretation claim. You're all using the same infallible word of god book.

ok....But I do not try and cherry pick....but you have to think about this....God the Bible may sometimes contain errors, big and small, because its writers were human. Sometimes, the errors were "innocent," other times they were contrived, purposeful, and made to fulfill an agenda...but overall Christians still have faith and believe in God the Bible.

You can't confirm any of it, or what god intended (or that your god or any god exists) - the whole thing is one big cherry picking exercise. People also cherry pick their stories of other gods. The infallible work of god looks pretty fallible. A loving god would surely make an appearance to sort the mess out but seems to be happy to allow people to believe themselves into hell for lack of the correct information.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by misser
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Raspy
The snippets you pointed out are OT...and NT...but you do not include the context....for example, the one you despise the most....

“Happy is the one who seizes your infants / and dashes them against the rocks.” To “imprecate” means to “pray evil against,” and the imprecatory prayers in the Bible strike people today as strange or wrong. It is important to understand the context of this verse and others like it. The background is the Jewish people calling upon God to exact revenge upon their military enemies.

Context doesn't alter what is said. When the bible tells us that God is responsible for the existence of evil, that is precisely what is meant and intended,

When the bible tells us that God creates evil and the evildoer for the day of evil, that is precisely what is meant and intended.

When the bible tells us that God as the 'Potter' creates vessels 'fitted for destruction,' that is precisely what is meant and intended.

Context does not alter what is written, meant and intended.

Context does not transform what is written, meant and intended into something more palatable for the believer. .

Yes, God created evil. However, it is important to understand that God did not create evil directly, but indirectly. God created angels and men with the potential and capability of committing evil by sinning because it was an important part of God’s Plan for them that they would experience both good and evil.
Two beings who represent the pinnacle of evil are Satan and Hitler. One is a fallen angel and the other is a fallen man. God created a holy angel called Lucifer who became Satan when he sinned by rebelling against God. Also, God created Adam and Eve who were holy people before they sinned by eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As a result of their sin, Adam and Eve became sinners and all of their descendants are born with an unrighteous sinful fallen nature.
God has complete foreknowledge of everything that happens in His creation. Therefore, the sins of fallen angels and the sins of fallen men do not take Him by surprise
you are just a bit ignorant. no God did not created evil. thats something developed by a spirit /angel that went against God's arrangement. that one was not named Lucifer we in fact dont know what his name really is

The bible itself states that God creates evil.

It states that God creates the evildoer for the day of evil, that God creates the dumb, the blind, the deaf, etc....that God is responsible for all these things, good and evil:


"And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?" Exodus 4:11


"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? " (Lamentations 3:38)


"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.'' Proverbs 16:4


Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6, KJV)

''Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps.'' (Psalm 135:6)

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

This is your bible telling you this, not me.

As usual, you don’t understand…..,probably because you don’t want to.

Be that as it may… God does bring judgment for sin and disobedience.

If one were to look at these verses in context this is clear.

However, you cannot..blinded?

For example, I have previously explained the “Happy is the one who…..” set of verses. As I recall the verses describe the enemies of the Jews after a Jewish defeat.

I don't understand? What a load of Crock.

It is you who cannot accept what the verses clearly say and mean.

It is you who seeks to rationalize what they are telling us.

You do that because it doesn't fit the image of God that you have created in your own mind.

Because what we are told about God creating evil does not suit the image of God you have created in your own mind, you seek to transform what we are clearly told into something that suits your needs, the opposite of what is clearly written and meant.

That is the truth.

Again and again and again.....That is your opinion.....not to be too crude, but opinions are like asp-holes, we all have one.

It's clearly not my opinion. I did nothing more than quote what is written in the bible.

Surely you don't think that the verses I quoted - anyone can check that they are in the bible - is somehow my opinion?

So to get this straight, I quote some verses and you say what is written in them is my opinion?

Frankly, that's bizarre.

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Originally Posted by Muffin
Dark is the absence of light..

Violence is not violence unless there is peace..

There is no Lawlessness without Law..

There is no wrong, without right..


That, frankly, is ridiculous.

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antlers Offline OP
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Originally Posted by antlers
Copies of the New Testament can be found in more ancient manuscripts than any other work of ancient literature. There are an estimated 5,800 ancient Greek manuscripts alone of the New Testament, as well as thousands of others in languages like Aramaic and Latin. And some of these manuscripts were written in the first century on parchment, and they remain intact to this day. And many thousands of them predate the time periods that you mention above.

World renowned New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman is proficient in Greek and Aramaic and he has personally read thousands and thousands of historical New Testament texts…in the original languages…and he concludes that we can have a high degree of confidence that we can reconstruct the original text of the New Testament, the text that is in the Bibles that we use today, because of the abundance of textual evidence we have to compare. He says that any variations are largely minor and don’t obscure our ability to construct an accurate original text. And he’s not only an expert in biblical textual criticism, he’s also an atheist.
These are the facts regarding the New Testament documents. Skeptics can dance around these facts all they want to because it makes em’ feel uncomfortable and it completely blows their position outta the water regarding the New Testament documents. The only alteration that has occurred is on the part of the skeptics themselves, who continue to intentionally alter the facts of the matter.


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antlers Offline OP
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The separate and individual New Testament accounts of the life of Jesus were written 300 years before the Bible was assembled. And these separate and individual accounts of the life of Jesus didn't become reliable when there were placed in the collection of documents we call the Bible. These accounts of the life of Jesus were included in the Bible because they were considered accurate and reliable when they were written. And they were written by people who were alive at the time when the events that they were documenting were actually occurring, pretty much unlike nearly all of the other ancient historical texts that we have today regarding all of ancient history.

Here’s the point: these accounts, these first century accounts of the life of Jesus were considered accurate and valuable and true at the time they were written, and that’s why they were eventually placed in the collection of books that we call the Bible. So when people struggle with faith because of anything to do with the New Testament documents, they should know the true facts of the matter regarding these documents: that copies of the New Testament can be found in more ancient manuscripts than any other work of ancient literature in all of history; and that even atheist biblical scholars like Bart Ehrman conclude that we can have a high degree of confidence that we can reconstruct the original text of the New Testament…the text that is in the Bibles that we use today…because of the abundance of ancient textual evidence that we have to compare.

It’s never not funny, or surprising, when skeptics intentionally and selectively hold the writings of ancient New Testament history to clearly different standards than they do the writings of the entirety of all other ancient history.


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