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Originally Posted by antlers
The separate and individual New Testament accounts of the life of Jesus were written 300 years before the Bible was assembled. And these separate and individual accounts of the life of Jesus didn't become reliable when there were placed in the collection of documents we call the Bible. These accounts of the life of Jesus were included in the Bible because they were considered accurate and reliable when they were written. And they were written by people who were alive at the time when the events that they were documenting were actually occurring, pretty much unlike nearly all of the other ancient historical texts that we have today regarding all of ancient history.

Here’s the point: these accounts, these first century accounts of the life of Jesus were considered accurate and valuable and true at the time they were written, and that’s why they were eventually placed in the collection of books that we call the Bible. So when people struggle with faith because of anything to do with the New Testament documents, they should know the true facts of the matter regarding these documents: that copies of the New Testament can be found in more ancient manuscripts than any other work of ancient literature in all of history; and that even atheist biblical scholars like Bart Ehrman conclude that we can have a high degree of confidence that we can reconstruct the original text of the New Testament…the text that is in the Bibles that we use today…because of the abundance of ancient textual evidence that we have to compare.

It’s never not funny, or surprising, when skeptics intentionally and selectively hold the writings of ancient New Testament history to clearly different standards than they do the writings of the entirety of all other ancient history.

Dang antlers...well said.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]


No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?

Except it's not my opinion. Historical and biblical scholars back up the fact of the issues with the documentation, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations today backs up my interpretation claim. You're all using the same infallible word of god book.

ok....But I do not try and cherry pick....but you have to think about this....God the Bible may sometimes contain errors, big and small, because its writers were human. Sometimes, the errors were "innocent," other times they were contrived, purposeful, and made to fulfill an agenda...but overall Christians still have faith and believe in God the Bible.

You can't confirm any of it, or what god intended (or that your god or any god exists) - the whole thing is one big cherry picking exercise. People also cherry pick their stories of other gods. The infallible work of god looks pretty fallible. A loving god would surely make an appearance to sort the mess out but seems to be happy to allow people to believe themselves into hell for lack of the correct information.

Read my reply when you are sober, then get back to me....as you do not make sense.


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by TF49
[quote=DBT][quote=misser][quote=Raspy][quote=DBT][quote=Raspy]

The bible itself states that God creates evil.

It states that God creates the evildoer for the day of evil, that God creates the dumb, the blind, the deaf, etc....that God is responsible for all these things, good and evil:


"And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? Or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?" Exodus 4:11


"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? " (Lamentations 3:38)


"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.'' Proverbs 16:4


Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6, KJV)

''Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps.'' (Psalm 135:6)

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

This is your bible telling you this, not me.

As usual, you don’t understand…..,probably because you don’t want to.

Be that as it may… God does bring judgment for sin and disobedience.

If one were to look at these verses in context this is clear.

However, you cannot..blinded?

For example, I have previously explained the “Happy is the one who…..” set of verses. As I recall the verses describe the enemies of the Jews after a Jewish defeat.

Again and again and again.....That is your opinion.....not to be too crude, but opinions are like asp-holes, we all have one.

It's clearly not my opinion. I did nothing more than quote what is written in the bible.

Surely you don't think that the verses I quoted - anyone can check that they are in the bible - is somehow my opinion?

So to get this straight, I quote some verses and you say what is written in them is my opinion?

Frankly, that's bizarre.

No gufuss, your interpretation is not what I believe....and so Christian of me....


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Muffin
Dark is the absence of light..

Violence is not violence unless there is peace..

There is no Lawlessness without Law..

There is no wrong, without right..


That, frankly, is ridiculous.

Again that is your opinion, and now, at this phase of our discussions, who gives a shiet!


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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]


No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?

Except it's not my opinion. Historical and biblical scholars back up the fact of the issues with the documentation, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations today backs up my interpretation claim. You're all using the same infallible word of god book.

ok....But I do not try and cherry pick....but you have to think about this....God the Bible may sometimes contain errors, big and small, because its writers were human. Sometimes, the errors were "innocent," other times they were contrived, purposeful, and made to fulfill an agenda...but overall Christians still have faith and believe in God the Bible.

You can't confirm any of it, or what god intended (or that your god or any god exists) - the whole thing is one big cherry picking exercise. People also cherry pick their stories of other gods. The infallible work of god looks pretty fallible. A loving god would surely make an appearance to sort the mess out but seems to be happy to allow people to believe themselves into hell for lack of the correct information.

Read my reply when you are sober, then get back to me....as you do not make sense.

It's pretty simple. You admit that your story book has errors yet you are going to believe a story anyway, and a story version that you desperately want to be true. Most other kids just grow up and leave the fairy tales behind them.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
[quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy]


No, I do not know exactly what the various scriptures say and neither do you...but I have Faith and you do not...so what...you do you and I do me....just like antlers stated above, quote, "the ancients try to put together an accurate and reliable description of what happened. But very rarely do we have anyone in all of ancient history who actually lived during the time of the person and the events that they wrote about…like we have with the separate and individual authors of the separate and individual books that comprise the New Testament."

The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?

Except it's not my opinion. Historical and biblical scholars back up the fact of the issues with the documentation, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations today backs up my interpretation claim. You're all using the same infallible word of god book.

ok....But I do not try and cherry pick....but you have to think about this....God the Bible may sometimes contain errors, big and small, because its writers were human. Sometimes, the errors were "innocent," other times they were contrived, purposeful, and made to fulfill an agenda...but overall Christians still have faith and believe in God the Bible.

You can't confirm any of it, or what god intended (or that your god or any god exists) - the whole thing is one big cherry picking exercise. People also cherry pick their stories of other gods. The infallible work of god looks pretty fallible. A loving god would surely make an appearance to sort the mess out but seems to be happy to allow people to believe themselves into hell for lack of the correct information.

Read my reply when you are sober, then get back to me....as you do not make sense.

It's pretty simple. You admit that your story book has errors yet you are going to believe a story anyway, and a story version that you desperately want to be true. Most other kids just grow up and leave the fairy tales behind them.

You are an idiot....humans are not perfect, and it does not take away my belief in God the Bible....but you know what....the world would have been a better place if your dad had just pulled out....and that was very Christian of me....I believe you and your other aussie homo devil friend are pussies but most likely paid atheist trolls.....

Go ahead and shoot back, but everyone on the Fire won't give a shiet. Good luck and God can still save your sorry asp on your last dying breath.


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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
[quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm][quote=Raspy][quote=mauserand9mm]The stories have been translated, retranslated and compiled over centuries well after when the alleged events happened, and claimed testimony by anonymous authors and third hand claims of anonymous witnesses. Your faith goes beyond anything the story tells you because you cherry pick and add your own interpretation just like all the other Christians do.

Well, that is your atheistic opinion, and you do know what opinions are like right?

Except it's not my opinion. Historical and biblical scholars back up the fact of the issues with the documentation, and the fact that there are thousands of Christian denominations today backs up my interpretation claim. You're all using the same infallible word of god book.

ok....But I do not try and cherry pick....but you have to think about this....God the Bible may sometimes contain errors, big and small, because its writers were human. Sometimes, the errors were "innocent," other times they were contrived, purposeful, and made to fulfill an agenda...but overall Christians still have faith and believe in God the Bible.

You can't confirm any of it, or what god intended (or that your god or any god exists) - the whole thing is one big cherry picking exercise. People also cherry pick their stories of other gods. The infallible work of god looks pretty fallible. A loving god would surely make an appearance to sort the mess out but seems to be happy to allow people to believe themselves into hell for lack of the correct information.

Read my reply when you are sober, then get back to me....as you do not make sense.

It's pretty simple. You admit that your story book has errors yet you are going to believe a story anyway, and a story version that you desperately want to be true. Most other kids just grow up and leave the fairy tales behind them.

You are an idiot....humans are not perfect, and it does not take away my belief in God the Bible....but you know what....the world would have been a better place if your dad had just pulled out....and that was very Christian of me....I believe you and your other aussie homo devil friend are pussies but most likely paid atheist trolls.....

Go ahead and shoot back, but everyone on the Fire won't give a shiet. Good luck and God can still save your sorry asp on your last dying breath.


Personal attacks and vitriol - the common stance for a badly defeated Christian around here.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Raspy
You are an idiot....humans are not perfect, and it does not take away my belief in God the Bible....but you know what....the world would have been a better place if your dad had just pulled out....and that was very Christian of me....I believe you and your other aussie homo devil friend are pussies but most likely paid atheist trolls.....

Go ahead and shoot back, but everyone on the Fire won't give a shiet. Good luck and God can still save your sorry asp on your last dying breath.

I never expected any of you to give a 'shiet' about the truth or sorting fact from fiction. Faith is your thing. Faith brings you comfort, your comfort overides the value of truth, and that is why you defend your faith with such vitriol and hate for those who question.

Yet someone needs to provide a bit of balance. Perhaps you should just embrace the challenge without the displays of emotion, the constant wailing gets ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Raspy
You are an idiot....humans are not perfect, and it does not take away my belief in God the Bible....but you know what....the world would have been a better place if your dad had just pulled out....and that was very Christian of me....I believe you and your other aussie homo devil friend are pussies but most likely paid atheist trolls.....

Go ahead and shoot back, but everyone on the Fire won't give a shiet. Good luck and God can still save your sorry asp on your last dying breath.
I don't believe I would have said that. I know a good many atheists but I don't insult them and cast aspersions. The fact is I like some of them. Jesus in Matthew 5:16 "Let your light shine before men, that they might see your good works, and glorify your Father in the heavens". I expect these men are having a little sport with you and you rise to the bait every time. Why don't you tell them you love them and hope they will rethink their atheism?


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by Hastings
I don't believe I would have said that. I know a good many atheists but I don't insult them and cast aspersions. The fact is I like some of them. Jesus in Matthew 5:16 "Let your light shine before men, that they might see your good works, and glorify your Father in the heavens". I expect these men are having a little sport with you and you rise to the bait every time. Why don't you tell them you love them and hope they will rethink their atheism?

DBT and Mauser....I love your soul and hope that you 2 will rethink atheism.


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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by Hastings
I don't believe I would have said that. I know a good many atheists but I don't insult them and cast aspersions. The fact is I like some of them. Jesus in Matthew 5:16 "Let your light shine before men, that they might see your good works, and glorify your Father in the heavens". I expect these men are having a little sport with you and you rise to the bait every time. Why don't you tell them you love them and hope they will rethink their atheism?

DBT and Mauser....I love your soul and hope that you 2 will rethink atheism.
Excellent, that's a start.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by Hastings
I don't believe I would have said that. I know a good many atheists but I don't insult them and cast aspersions. The fact is I like some of them. Jesus in Matthew 5:16 "Let your light shine before men, that they might see your good works, and glorify your Father in the heavens". I expect these men are having a little sport with you and you rise to the bait every time. Why don't you tell them you love them and hope they will rethink their atheism?

DBT and Mauser....I love your soul and hope that you 2 will rethink atheism.

You're almost a complete atheist yourself - just one more god to go. Put that critical thinking cap on and you'll get there.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by Hastings
I don't believe I would have said that. I know a good many atheists but I don't insult them and cast aspersions. The fact is I like some of them. Jesus in Matthew 5:16 "Let your light shine before men, that they might see your good works, and glorify your Father in the heavens". I expect these men are having a little sport with you and you rise to the bait every time. Why don't you tell them you love them and hope they will rethink their atheism?

DBT and Mauser....I love your soul and hope that you 2 will rethink atheism.


Evidence justifies conviction. Absence of evidence justifies a lack of conviction. If a God presented itself openly and honestly, everyone would be a theist.

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The authors of the New Testament documents, especially the eyewitnesses, took the time to document the life of Jesus so that people in the first century…during the time when these events happened…would know with certainty what had happened so their confidence and trust would be anchored to an actual event and to a real person. They wanted to ensure that it was anchored to that event ~ the resurrection of Jesus. That’s what launched Christianity.

They weren’t writing religious literature. They were documenting history as it unfolded. They were actually documenting someone's life, and they were living in the time when these things happened, and these things happened among them.

The New Testament texts are historically reliable documents. And the New Testament that we have now…in the Bible’s of today…are in agreement with the New Testament that has been preserved in more ancient manuscripts than any other ancient work of literature in all of history. And there are literally thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of ancient New Testament manuscripts that biblical scholars have used for comparison to verify that fact.

Again, skeptics dance around this fact because it makes em’ feel uncomfortable and it completely blows their position outta the water regarding the New Testament documents. The only alteration that has occurred is on the part of the skeptics themselves, who continue to intentionally try to alter this verifiable fact of the matter. And the only “problems” are the one’s that the skeptics clearly have with this verifiable fact of the matter.


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But we don't have eyewitness accounts. The gospels were written many decades after the described events, copying between gospels, embellishments, Paul never met Jesus, etc. There are too many problems.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by Hastings
I don't believe I would have said that. I know a good many atheists but I don't insult them and cast aspersions. The fact is I like some of them. Jesus in Matthew 5:16 "Let your light shine before men, that they might see your good works, and glorify your Father in the heavens". I expect these men are having a little sport with you and you rise to the bait every time. Why don't you tell them you love them and hope they will rethink their atheism?

DBT and Mauser....I love your soul and hope that you 2 will rethink atheism.

You're almost a complete atheist yourself - just one more god to go. Put that critical thinking cap on and you'll get there.
Not going to believe there is no supernatural power. Life as we know it, the universe as we know it cannot have happened spontaneously. There was a huge explosion of compressed matter and then conditions on our rock for a chemical reaction caused life to emerge? And become viruses, bacteria, amoeba, jellyfish, sharks, whales, rats , grass, trees, cacti, and man, etcetera? I grant there is adaptive evolution, but not spontaneous life from a chemical reaction. Not even in a few billion years.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by Hastings
I don't believe I would have said that. I know a good many atheists but I don't insult them and cast aspersions. The fact is I like some of them. Jesus in Matthew 5:16 "Let your light shine before men, that they might see your good works, and glorify your Father in the heavens". I expect these men are having a little sport with you and you rise to the bait every time. Why don't you tell them you love them and hope they will rethink their atheism?

DBT and Mauser....I love your soul and hope that you 2 will rethink atheism.

You're almost a complete atheist yourself - just one more god to go. Put that critical thinking cap on and you'll get there.
Not going to believe there is no supernatural power. Life as we know it, the universe as we know it cannot have happened spontaneously. There was a huge explosion of compressed matter and then conditions on our rock for a chemical reaction caused life to emerge? And become viruses, bacteria, amoeba, jellyfish, sharks, whales, rats , grass, trees, cacti, and man, etcetera? I grant there is adaptive evolution, but not spontaneous life from a chemical reaction. Not even in a few billion years.

You"re substituting what we honestly don't know for sure all the details of, with another mystery but one that you are willing to believe in without any evidence what so ever. Where did god come from? That mystery you are willing to ignore but accept as agiven. How does he have these superpowers? That's another mystery you are willing to ignore but accept as a given.

How did you ballpark or calculate the odds for the time it took for life to start appearing? What's the probability of a god existing considering there's nothing to substantiate that assertion? What's the probability of galaxy farting pixies existing considering there's nothing to substantiate that assertion?

Creation of the universe and evolution are rock solid science and any knowledge gaps are geting filled the more we discover. Everything in biology, medicine and argricultural science makes sense thank's to the science of evolution.

Ultimately everything is just chemicals and chemical interactions of some form. Magic or supernatural forces don't appear in any of the explanations that we have uncovered. The more we know, the more the magic disappears, like it never existed in the first place,


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Muffin
Dark is the absence of light..

Violence is not violence unless there is peace..

There is no Lawlessness without Law..

There is no wrong, without right..


That, frankly, is ridiculous.

who gives a shiet!

Then why do you, Raspy? These atheists have CLEARLY made their free-will choice to reject God/Jesus, as has Hastings, who has rejected the deity/divinity of Jesus our Savior and Lord and God.

Why do you give a chit? Why the incessant bantering back and forth? The world is full of God-haters and Jesus-rejectors. You can’t convince them or change them….

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"John 3:16"


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Originally Posted by wabigoon
"John 3:16"

Exactly, Wabi, however, many have rejected the free gift of salvation and what Jesus Christ has done for us. He did it ALL. All we have to do is accept His work and sacrifice. He was rejected 2,000 years ago and continues to be rejected….

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