Let me ask you the same question I asked deflave. How much of Europe are you willing to see under Russian control? A return to the old Soviet borders up to Berlin, or all the way to the Atlantic?
I’ll answer your question even though it isn’t addressed to me and I’ll kindly ask you a question in return….
Europe was in no danger of being overrun by Russia. Europe DOES not include Ukraine despite modern revisionism that tries to twist history and the facts to suit their modern day agenda. Ukraine is not now nor have they been a member of Europe. Their traditions are Russian, their speech is Russian, their mannerisms and body language are Russian, their food is Russian, their religion is Russian. They are NOT a European country, they are not our long-standing faithful allies, they ARE NOT in our SANDBOX…..they aren’t even in the same playground or in the same neighborhood, they’re speaking some guttural gobeldygook in between shots of vodka and cigarettes halfway across the world….in RUSSIA’S SANDBOX. We wouldn’t appreciate Russia doing to us in Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean what we’ve done to them in Ukraine starting in 2014 under Obama/Klinton and NOBODY would dare claim that either Mexico, Canada or the Caribbean are in Russia’s backyard.
My question is……Is this the only Obama/Klinton color revolution, of the many failed color revolutions under that regime, that you support and believe in? What geopolitical acumen did they exercise in Ukraine that they failed to exercise in all their other failed revolutions? Why wouldn’t we expect repercussions for our failure to live up to our agreements and promises? Why is NATO encroachment right up to the Russian border in any way acceptable to any Russian?…it’s not because it’s meant as a threat….what the bullshitters would classify as a “deterrent” is really an unnecessary provocation. Why would anyone not react to continued provocation?
Where do you draw the line?
Hastings would abandon all of Europe to the Atlantic.
Where's the line for you? How about Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Estonia, Latvia, LithuaniaSlovakia, the Czech Republics, Poland, Germany back to the old wall, or all of Germany, or, are you like Hasting and would let them have everything from Gibraltar to Iceland?
AntelopeSniper….. I don’t have to “draw a line” to demarcate the European borders because that line is already drawn and has been debated, revised and redrawn time and again throughout history. I don’t understand why we are pretending like we can’t define “Europe”. I might not agree with the decisions or policies of NATO but since they like to pretend that living up to agreements is desirable while they simultaneously work in quiet to usurp and undermine those very same treaties. Their modus operandi is to demand total capitulation and then force the parties to sign their “treaties”. The western factions ignore their obligations under the treaty and continue to do whatever they please despite their actions being in violation of the treaty. Any/every treaty with NATO culminates in the west abrogating their obligations while accusing the other side of doing what they did in violation of the agreement. Europe isn’t some abstract idea, it’s a real place with a real definition and real BORDERS!
Interestingly enough….Ukraine has had multiple opportunities to join NATO in the post Cold War but voted it down or declined membership. Ukraine had decades to join the west but CHOSE to stay allied with Russia while remaining friendly to Europe.
When I see that the primary small arms of the Ukrainian soldier and civilian is the AK47 I know that they ain’t my longtime friend. We don’t have to use disingenuous and misleading assertions nor do we have to redefine the facts in an attempt to make this clusterfuck more palatable.
To recap…. Ukraine is NOT a European country Ukraine is NOT our responsibility Ukraine is NOT our sandbox Russia’s response in 2014 to the Obama color revolution fomented by our CIA is the reason this bullshit is still going. Ukraine is a historically Russian state and virtually all of its traditions are Russian in origin Obama Klinton and Biden are pushing this “war” while the left is virtue signaling their blood lust….suddenly on the precipice of WWIII “we” trust the left and the way they prosecute war?GMAFB
What really strikes me about this Ukraine thing is that in general terms the left hates war and generally sympathized with their communist brothers and sisters. At the same time the right is anti-Russia and anti-communism and more likely to support military action against our “enemies”, especially the Russians. This “war” has all those generalizations uprooted and backwards. The left wants war so bad they can’t stand it while the right wants nothing to do with the internal communist struggles in Russia’s backyard. The left hates the military industrial complex but as it relates to Ukraine the left loves the MIC.
I’m fine with Russians killing pseudo-Russians and our enemies weakening each other 10,000 miles away.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
I’m fine with Russians killing pseudo-Russians and our enemies weakening each other 10,000 miles away.
That works for me.
That you for the thoughtful response.
Now a couple points of order. Ukraine IS located in Europe. So is Moscow, and all of Russia up to the Ural mountains, down to the Caspian sea, along the Caucuses, along the black sea to the Dardanelle's Ukraine has a long as storied history, along with Poland being the playground of empires where east meets west for the last 800 years, and it's once again serving that roll today.
Remember when you were a kid. You'd start rough housing with your brother, and the parents didn't want to you break anything in the house, so they'd send you outside and you'd go out to the sand box and kick sand in each others face. You could body slam each other in the soft sand, and sure you'd get a dirty and mom would have to wash your cloths, but nothing important got broken?
So if Russia wants to a pissing match in the sandbox, that's fine. We'll give some toys to our favorite thugs, let the Russians duke it out with them in the sandbox and not get anywhere close to inside the house (Current NATO countries) and the fine china.
As for how much responsibility we have for Ukraine, that's debatable. We made them a series of security assurances back in the 90's as a precondition for them to turn over their nuclear arsenal for disposal.
As for three of the last 4 administrations pushing for war, I believe you give them way too much credit and greatly under estimate their incompetence. Yes the left "hates" wars, but we have more wars under leftist administration due to their weakness and incompetence on the international stage.
Yes, the irony of the left/right switch as it applies to Russia isn't lost upon me. Today if someone says Ukraine those on the far right automatically think, "Biden Bad", and their brain shuts off, like that zombie in the "good shoot" thread from earlier today. It's actually quite facinating.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 11/13/22.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
I don't see any of the Orc Lovers talking about their time in the service.
I wonder why that is?
In my case it is because I wanted no part of it. And now I don't want my kids or grandchildren mixed up in killing or being killed in some foolishness across the ocean.
We haven't gained a thing by our foreign adventures. Nothing. Starting with the Spanish/American War. All it has done is put us into position for another war. WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and all that Middle-East crap.
And before anyone pipes up with "Japan attacked us". Why did they attack us? Who embargoed them, who blockaded trade with them?
As Ron Paul observed "sanctions lead to war".
We sanctioned Japan AFTER they attacked our then ally, China.
And everything in the world you could possible need is made right there in Louisiana.
Our ally China? Then why after the war did we leave them to the tender mercies of the Communists? Why did we pull out of North Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan. Almost everywhere we've gone to save was left in a mess.
And now we are BROKE, and Europe is gearing up for another conflagration. And of course we are stupid enough to be in NATO.
And everything I need could be made in this country or with the money we would save we could go out and buy it on the world market. You know, free trade, no restrictions on a country because they offend us.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
I don't see any of the Orc Lovers talking about their time in the service.
I wonder why that is?
In my case it is because I wanted no part of it. And now I don't want my kids or grandchildren mixed up in killing or being killed in some foolishness across the ocean.
We haven't gained a thing by our foreign adventures. Nothing. Starting with the Spanish/American War. All it has done is put us into position for another war. WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and all that Middle-East crap.
And before anyone pipes up with "Japan attacked us". Why did they attack us? Who embargoed them, who blockaded trade with them?
As Ron Paul observed "sanctions lead to war".
We sanctioned Japan AFTER they attacked our then ally, China.
And everything in the world you could possible need is made right there in Louisiana.
Our ally China? Then why after the war did we leave them to the tender mercies of the Communists? Why did we pull out of North Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan. Almost everywhere we've gone to save was left in a mess.
And now we are BROKE, and Europe is gearing up for another conflagration. And of course we are stupid enough to be in NATO.
And everything I need could be made in this country or with the money we would save we could go out and buy it on the world market. You know, free trade, no restrictions on a country because they offend us.
You win some, you loose some, and sometimes you hold the barbarians behind the wall of allies for 5 decades.
Freedom isn't free. It's not a question of if we're going to pay a price, just what price, and when and how we're going to pay it.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Makes sense a follower of Baal like the OP would support us taxpayers sending Billions to Ukraine who then buys tons of FTX who sends millions back to support Dimocraps.
How much went to the WEF, sucker, a group dedicated to destroying the US, Russia and others as independant countries.
FTX, biggest Dimocrap financial backer next to George Soros.
Last edited by jaguartx; 11/15/22.
Ecc 10:2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.
A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.
"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".
Kentucky landed a recruit named DJ Wagner, so I was searching for Wagner news on twitter.
I ended up seeing multiple posts about a group called PMC Wagner. I suspect most of you know who they are. I did not.
so I looked up exactly what PMC Wagner is, they are a private military group that hires mercenaries. PMC stands for Private Military Company and wikipedia says , fwiw, they are the defacto private army for Putin.
I found multiple posts about a russian POW executed (apparently one of theirs) who was part of a prisoner exchange with Ukraine.
PMC Wagner executed him using a sledgehammer and posted the pictures. I guess they don't tolerate mercenaries getting caught as POWs. That's gotta be a rough way to go.
Last edited by KFWA; 11/15/22.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
Kentucky landed a recruit named DJ Wagner, so I was searching for Wagner news on twitter.
I ended up seeing multiple posts about a group called PMC Wagner. I suspect most of you know who they are. I did not.
so I looked up exactly what PMC Wagner is, they are a private military group that hires mercenaries. PMC stands for Private Military Company and wikipedia says , fwiw, they are the defacto private army for Putin.
I found multiple posts about a russian POW executed (apparently one of theirs) who was part of a prisoner exchange with Ukraine.
PMC Wagner executed him using a sledgehammer and posted the pictures. I guess they don't tolerate mercenaries getting caught as POWs. That's gotta be a rough way to go.
He was a prisoner let out early to serve the Wagner group. With the understanding that cutting and running or switching sides carried a death sentence.
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